You are talking to me and trying to explain something to me that is not true about me as if it were or is true about me.
Just a few rapture questions
- Thread starter DansingWall
- Start date
You are talking to me and trying to explain something to me that is not true about me as if it were or is true about me.
WatchmanOnTheWall
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They weren't raptured. Elijah came back to Earth and later wrote a letter to king Jehoram: http://biblehub.com/2_chronicles/21-12.htm . Enoch walking with God and being taken by God is not rapture. Jesus was the first to be raptured. He is the first fruits.
WatchmanOnTheWall
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People have been going to heaven ever since Jesus resurrected. What you are talking about is the rapture, and yes those who are raptured will go to heaven.
genuineoriginal
New member
Isaiah 2:1-4 is about the last days.
The Day of the Lord described in Isaiah 2:5-3:26 is about God bringing Babylon against Judah and Jerusalem.
Isaiah 2:12 12 For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low: |
Isaiah 3:1 1 For, behold, the Lord, the Lord of hosts, doth take away from Jerusalem and from Judah the stay and the staff, the whole stay of bread, and the whole stay of water. |
genuineoriginal
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The seventy weeks of the prophecy ended 3-1/2 years after Jesus died on the cross.
The seventy weeks ended in the time between the death of Stephen in Acts 7 and the account of Cornelius in Acts 10.
WatchmanOnTheWall
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Revelation 20
4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. Theya had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Two raptures yet to come. One before the 1000 year reign and one after. Jesus' rapture (resurrection) along with the holy men was technically the first. Three rapture events in total.
DansingWall
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Can i see one scripture that actually says that. Dont bother answering with a song and dance down the bunny trail. Ishtars on the way.
WatchmanOnTheWall
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1 Thessalonians 4:17
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
genuineoriginal
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On His way from heaven to earth to start the thousand year kingdom, Jesus will meet the believers in the air.
The believers do not wave at Jesus as they pass Him on their way to heaven without Him, Jesus meets them in the air and brings them with Him to earth.
beameup
New member
Romanist nonsense, that makes no common sense whatsoever. :dizzy:
Obviously "theology" cooked-up by the Roman Emperor
and his "theologians" when Christianity became the
"State Religion" under Constantine. You are a preterist;
another Romanist doctrine. You have so much in common with the RCC.
genuineoriginal
New member
I am not a Preterist, Preterists do not believe in a future return of Jesus.
I am a Historical Premillennialist who uses the literal-historical-grammatical method of hermeneutics to understand the Bible.
Roman Catholics do not believe in the literal fulfillment of prophecy, they are Amillennialists.
WatchmanOnTheWall
New member
It doesn't say that either. Actually what must be understood is that Jesus returns with his Holy followers:
Jude 1:14
Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones
These are the priests of God and of Christ who will reign with him for a thousand years:
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
It is these people who will go with Jesus to Earth to reign for 1000 years. These will be the 144,000 of the first resurrection which actually takes place at the same time the two witnesses are raptured (resurrected):
Revelation 11:11-12
11 But after the three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.
The 144,000 will be Christians who recognise the teaching of Elijah (the lead witness) is correct Biblical interpretation, especially eschatologically and will be preaching the same message as Elijah and pointing out who Elijah and the other witness is. After the two witnesses are raptured, along with the 144,000, there is a 45 day wait till they return with Jesus:
Daniel 12:11-12
11“From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.
The abomination set up at the temple is the image of the Anti-Christ, but this is not done till the two witnesses have been killed and resurrected. Therefore 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is only talking about the 144,000 who are raptured in the first Resurrection. Jesus meets them in the air and they all go to Heaven together, then after 45 days they return on the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord (Atonement).
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DansingWall
New member
JUDE 1 [14] And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, THE LORD COMETH WITH TEN THOUSANDS OF HIS SAINTS,[15] To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
The Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints
DEUT.33 [1] And this is the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death.[2] And he said, THE LORD CAME FROM SINAI, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and HE CAME WITH TEN THOUSANDS OF SAINTS: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.[3] Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words.[4] Moses commanded us a law, even the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob.
So i guess the “ten thousands of saints” in Jude are not those who were raptured as you will find those "ten thousands of saints" comin round the mountain at the giving of the law at Mt.Sinai.
WatchmanOnTheWall
New member
Gill's commentary on this states they were angels in Deut 33:2 and saints in Jude 1:14.
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/jude/1-14.htm
"and when he comes, he will be attended "with ten thousand of his saints": meaning either the souls of glorified saints, even all of them, 1 Thessalonians 3:13, which will come with Christ, and meet the living ones, and be reunited to their own bodies, which will then be raised; or else the holy angels, as in Deuteronomy 33:2"
I agree it is not totally clear whether it means angels or saints in either of these text but I side with saints returning with Jesus and angels were with God in Sinai (Deut 33:2).
Enoch saw the second coming, that I am sure of as that is what Jude meant and Jesus returns to Earth to land on the Mount of Olives and then rules for 1000 years with the 144,000.
DansingWall
New member
Your not agreeing with me. The Word calls them Saints in both passages. I believe the Word
WatchmanOnTheWall
New member
I agree it says saints in the original Hebrew but this was a vision of the future that Moses also saw.
DansingWall
New member
So when is the LAST trumpet to be blown? Its a MYSTERY!
1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] Behold, I SHEW YOU A MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
MYSTERY—last trumpet {it shall sound} – The LAST one! – No more trumpets to be blown – Its the LAST trumpet!
REVELATION 8 [1] And when he had opened THE SEVENTH SEAL, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. [2] And I saw the SEVEN ANGELS which stood before God; and to them were given SEVEN TRUMPETS.
Seventh angel has a trumpet. It shall sound. Its also the LAST one to be heard. Its also AFTER the trib period
REVELATION 10 [6] And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: [7] But in the days of the voice of THE SEVENTH ANGEL, when he shall begin to sound, THE MYSTERY OF GOD SHOULD BE FINISHED, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
MYSTERY SOLVED! The seventh angel begins to sound. This is the LAST trumpet you find being blown in the bible
REVELATION 16 [17] And the SEVENTH ANGEL poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, IT IS DONE.
REVELATION 11 [14] The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. [15]And THE SEVENTH ANGEL SOUNDED; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF OUR LORD, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
As i said before, we do not flit off to heaven at the 1Cor.15 event. As the seventh angel sounds the trumpet the kingdoms of this world are to become the kingdoms of the Lord and thats where the Lord will bring us after meeting Him in the air. His kingdom, right here on Gods green earth