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  • #91
    Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Therefore, the faith mentioned in Ephesians 2:8 cannot be the "works" spoken about in Ephesians 2:9, no matter how often you keep trying to say it is.
    False accusation
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
      If faith that saves or justifies before God was of ourselves it would give occasion to boast, which is contrary to being saved by grace through faith Eph 2:8-9

      8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

      9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
      Exactly. It says 'that' not of yourselves after grace and after faith, not between them. Both the grace and the faith are gifts from God, which leaves out ALL boasting of works. The grace which we're given to be saved is from God, the faith we use to believe in Christ is from God and the ability to rely upon that faith as the years go by and we are confronted with bigger and harder challenges to that faith (which causes us to flex our faith muscles and exercise them and make them stronger) is also from God. He has the ability to keep those who believe in Him believing in Him even when confronted with HUGE challenges, including torture and execution for believing in Him. What a MIGHTY God we serve!!!
      "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

      If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
        If we believe and teach that a sinner is justified before God by their own action of faith/believing, then we by default are teaching justification by ones meritorious act, whether its admitted or not.
        So true, man's religion teaches that a spiritually dead person has the power to affect his justification before God, by exerting his own act faith / believing in the flesh Rom. 8:8; Is. 64:6.

        However, Scripture declares that one's Justification / Salvation is by the Working of God's Power Eph. 1:19 !
        My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever;
        when shall I be brought in to see His Face? - Psalm 42:2

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
          If faith that saves or justifies before God was of ourselves it would give occasion to boast, which is contrary to being saved by grace through faith Eph 2:8-9

          8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

          9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
          Yes, because it exalts the pride and self-righteousness of the sinner; insisting that his own cooperation is essential to his justification, which denies the Power of Christ's Blood alone to Justify all those it was shed for, which is Blasphemy !
          My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever;
          when shall I be brought in to see His Face? - Psalm 42:2

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Nanja View Post
            Yes, because it exalts the pride and self-righteousness of the sinner; insisting that his own cooperation is essential to his justification, which denies the Power of Christ's Blood alone to Justify all those it was shed for, which is Blasphemy !
            Amen Sister. I am so glad God has raised you up and given a heart of understanding.
            "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
            preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
            called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
            a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

            Charles Spurgeon !

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
              Amen Sister. I am so glad God has raised you up and given a heart of understanding.

              Amen Brother, we Praise Him for giving us Spiritual Power and Understanding, a New Heart Ezek. 36:26 to Live according to His Will 2 Thes. 2:13; to please Him alone, [and not men], by His Spiritual Power Working in us Eph. 3:7 !
              My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever;
              when shall I be brought in to see His Face? - Psalm 42:2

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                Therefore, the faith mentioned in Ephesians 2:8 cannot be the "works" spoken about in Ephesians 2:9, no matter how often you keep trying to say it is.
                Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                False accusation
                Why do you respond to the truth with a "False accusation"?
                Learn to read what is written.

                _____
                The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
                ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

                Comment


                • #98
                  Gotquestions.org

                  Our salvation depends solely upon Jesus Christ. He is our substitute, taking sin’s penalty (2 Corinthians 5:21); He is our Savior from sin (John 1:29); He is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). The work necessary to provide salvation was fully accomplished by Jesus Himself, who lived a perfect life, took God’s judgment for sin, and rose again from the dead (Hebrews 10:12).

                  The Bible is quite clear that our own works do not help merit salvation. We are saved “not because of righteous things we had done” (Titus 3:5). “Not by works” (Ephesians 2:9). “There is no one righteous, not even one” (Romans 3:10). This means that offering sacrifices, keeping the commandments, going to church, being baptized, and other good deeds are incapable of saving anyone. No matter how “good” we are, we can never measure up to God’s standard of holiness (Romans 3:23; Matthew 19:17; Isaiah 64:6).

                  The Bible is just as clear that salvation is conditional; God does not save everyone. The one condition for salvation is faith in Jesus Christ. Nearly 200 times in the New Testament, faith (or belief) is declared to be the sole condition for salvation (John 1:12; Acts 16:31).

                  One day, some people asked Jesus what they could do to please God: “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus immediately points them to faith: “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent” (John 6:28-29). So, the question is about God’s requirements (plural), and Jesus’ answer is that God’s requirement (singular) is that you believe in Him.

                  Grace is God’s giving us something we cannot earn or deserve. According to Romans 11:6, “works” of any kind destroys grace—the idea is that a worker earns payment, while the recipient of grace simply receives it, unearned. Since salvation is all of grace, it cannot be earned. Faith, therefore, is a non-work. Faith cannot truly be considered a “work,” or else it would destroy grace. (See also Romans 4—Abraham’s salvation was dependent on faith in God, as opposed to any work he performed.)

                  Suppose someone anonymously sent you a check for $1,000,000. The money is yours if you want it, but you still must endorse the check. In no way can signing your name be considered earning the million dollars—the endorsement is a non-work. You can never boast about becoming a millionaire through sheer effort or your own business savvy. No, the million dollars was simply a gift, and signing your name was the only way to receive it. Similarly, exercising faith is the only way to receive the generous gift of God, and faith cannot be considered a work worthy of the gift.

                  True faith cannot be considered a work because true faith involves a cessation of our works in the flesh. True faith has as its object Jesus and His work on our behalf (Matthew 11:28-29; Hebrews 4:10).

                  To take this a step further, true faith cannot be considered a work because even faith is a gift from God, not something we produce on our own. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8). “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44). Praise the Lord for His power to save and for His grace to make salvation a reality!
                  He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                  Jim Elliot

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                    Gotquestions.org

                    Our salvation depends solely upon Jesus Christ. He is our substitute, taking sin’s penalty (2 Corinthians 5:21); He is our Savior from sin (John 1:29); He is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). The work necessary to provide salvation was fully accomplished by Jesus Himself, who lived a perfect life, took God’s judgment for sin, and rose again from the dead (Hebrews 10:12).

                    The Bible is quite clear that our own works do not help merit salvation. We are saved “not because of righteous things we had done” (Titus 3:5). “Not by works” (Ephesians 2:9). “There is no one righteous, not even one” (Romans 3:10). This means that offering sacrifices, keeping the commandments, going to church, being baptized, and other good deeds are incapable of saving anyone. No matter how “good” we are, we can never measure up to God’s standard of holiness (Romans 3:23; Matthew 19:17; Isaiah 64:6).

                    The Bible is just as clear that salvation is conditional; God does not save everyone. The one condition for salvation is faith in Jesus Christ. Nearly 200 times in the New Testament, faith (or belief) is declared to be the sole condition for salvation (John 1:12; Acts 16:31).

                    One day, some people asked Jesus what they could do to please God: “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus immediately points them to faith: “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent” (John 6:28-29). So, the question is about God’s requirements (plural), and Jesus’ answer is that God’s requirement (singular) is that you believe in Him.

                    Grace is God’s giving us something we cannot earn or deserve. According to Romans 11:6, “works” of any kind destroys grace—the idea is that a worker earns payment, while the recipient of grace simply receives it, unearned. Since salvation is all of grace, it cannot be earned. Faith, therefore, is a non-work. Faith cannot truly be considered a “work,” or else it would destroy grace. (See also Romans 4—Abraham’s salvation was dependent on faith in God, as opposed to any work he performed.)

                    Suppose someone anonymously sent you a check for $1,000,000. The money is yours if you want it, but you still must endorse the check. In no way can signing your name be considered earning the million dollars—the endorsement is a non-work. You can never boast about becoming a millionaire through sheer effort or your own business savvy. No, the million dollars was simply a gift, and signing your name was the only way to receive it. Similarly, exercising faith is the only way to receive the generous gift of God, and faith cannot be considered a work worthy of the gift.

                    True faith cannot be considered a work because true faith involves a cessation of our works in the flesh. True faith has as its object Jesus and His work on our behalf (Matthew 11:28-29; Hebrews 4:10).

                    To take this a step further, true faith cannot be considered a work because even faith is a gift from God, not something we produce on our own. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8). “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44). Praise the Lord for His power to save and for His grace to make salvation a reality!
                    This is a good example of making faith/believing by the sinner a meritorious work for salvation.

                    Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
                    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                    Charles Spurgeon !

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                      Gotquestions.org

                      Our salvation depends solely upon Jesus Christ. He is our substitute, taking sin’s penalty (2 Corinthians 5:21); He is our Savior from sin (John 1:29); He is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). The work necessary to provide salvation was fully accomplished by Jesus Himself, who lived a perfect life, took God’s judgment for sin, and rose again from the dead (Hebrews 10:12).

                      The Bible is quite clear that our own works do not help merit salvation. We are saved “not because of righteous things we had done” (Titus 3:5). “Not by works” (Ephesians 2:9). “There is no one righteous, not even one” (Romans 3:10). This means that offering sacrifices, keeping the commandments, going to church, being baptized, and other good deeds are incapable of saving anyone. No matter how “good” we are, we can never measure up to God’s standard of holiness (Romans 3:23; Matthew 19:17; Isaiah 64:6).

                      The Bible is just as clear that salvation is conditional; God does not save everyone. The one condition for salvation is faith in Jesus Christ. Nearly 200 times in the New Testament, faith (or belief) is declared to be the sole condition for salvation (John 1:12; Acts 16:31).

                      One day, some people asked Jesus what they could do to please God: “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus immediately points them to faith: “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent” (John 6:28-29). So, the question is about God’s requirements (plural), and Jesus’ answer is that God’s requirement (singular) is that you believe in Him.

                      Grace is God’s giving us something we cannot earn or deserve. According to Romans 11:6, “works” of any kind destroys grace—the idea is that a worker earns payment, while the recipient of grace simply receives it, unearned. Since salvation is all of grace, it cannot be earned. Faith, therefore, is a non-work. Faith cannot truly be considered a “work,” or else it would destroy grace. (See also Romans 4—Abraham’s salvation was dependent on faith in God, as opposed to any work he performed.)

                      Suppose someone anonymously sent you a check for $1,000,000. The money is yours if you want it, but you still must endorse the check. In no way can signing your name be considered earning the million dollars—the endorsement is a non-work. You can never boast about becoming a millionaire through sheer effort or your own business savvy. No, the million dollars was simply a gift, and signing your name was the only way to receive it. Similarly, exercising faith is the only way to receive the generous gift of God, and faith cannot be considered a work worthy of the gift.

                      True faith cannot be considered a work because true faith involves a cessation of our works in the flesh. True faith has as its object Jesus and His work on our behalf (Matthew 11:28-29; Hebrews 4:10).

                      To take this a step further, true faith cannot be considered a work because even faith is a gift from God, not something we produce on our own. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8). “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44). Praise the Lord for His power to save and for His grace to make salvation a reality!
                      Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                      This is a good example of making faith/believing by the sinner a meritorious work for salvation.

                      Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
                      How so? The last paragraph in the "got questions" states:
                      To take this a step further, true faith cannot be considered a work because even faith is a gift from God, not something we produce on our own. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8). “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44). Praise the Lord for His power to save and for His grace to make salvation a reality!
                      This is a Calvinist position. Bright Raven is by no means a Calvinist, but the answer he quoted fits well with Calvinism.
                      Without faith one cannot be saved, but faith comes only by the gracious gift of God so that no one can boast.

                      Comment


                      • menno

                        How so?
                        I already answered that, this thread was made to answer that. Try reading it, but if God doesnt open up mans reason, it wont help !
                        "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                        preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                        called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                        a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                        Charles Spurgeon !

                        Comment


                        • No it is not a work. The verse itself says so. It is by grace you have been saved through faith NOT OF WORKS.
                          He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                          Jim Elliot

                          Comment


                          • The idea of faith being a 'work' is ultimately a pointless notion either way. If a faith doesn't follow with works, or at least a desire to works when it is necessary, than it is a dead faith.
                            Why? Because faith is not merely a claim or thought, it's a driving spirit. That's exactly where James is coming from when he calls it 'dead'- it's like a vehicle with no engine, is that what suffices for salvation?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                              The answer is absolutely yes. If we agree with the overall definition of work according to the greek word for work ergon:

                              See strongs # 2041:

                              1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied
                                1. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

                              2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind


                              3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

                                A work is anything done, accomplished by #1 hand, #2 art, #3 industry, #4 or MIND

                                The mind is :

                                (in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.

                                Psychology. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.

                                So believing something via the mental activity and process of reasoning is work. The process of decision making is a activity, work of the mind.

                                Now for instance, the sin of hatred Gal 5:19-20


                                Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


                                20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

                                How is that sin committed ? It starts in the mind or heart ! Yet in Vs 19 its stated as an work of the flesh

                                So activity in and with the mind/heart is a work, this cannot be denied..

                                Now believing is either a work of the flesh [unregenerate] or of the Spirit [ regenerated]

                                But now Salvation is not by works, Neither by works of the flesh or works of the Spirit.


                              Believing is indeed a work and we receive what we believe, if we believe truth we receive accordingly and if we believe error we receive accordingly

                              Who did the work to pay the price for our sins?

                              Jesus Christ did, so they are paid for.

                              There is no work that we can do to add to it, but to believe to receive
                              "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

                              "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

                              Pro scripture = Protestant

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by oatmeal View Post
                                Believing is indeed a work and we receive what we believe, if we believe truth we receive accordingly and if we believe error we receive accordingly

                                Who did the work to pay the price for our sins?

                                Jesus Christ did, so they are paid for.

                                There is no work that we can do to add to it, but to believe to receive
                                Another example of work salvation, contrary to the Truth
                                "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                                preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                                called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                                a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                                Charles Spurgeon !

                                Comment

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