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  • #46
    Originally posted by meshak View Post
    You made a false accusations.

    You lied about my posts.

    And you try to silence those speak the whole truth.

    some of us are claiming producing fruit is the core of salvation.

    And we are challenging your claim. so stop harassing posters who are challenging your claim.
    .


    Yes, believe in Jesus is producing godly fruit.


    We are on the topic.
    More harrasment, rabbit trail and evasion from the OP. So I will ask you again. Do you care to discuss the OP points ?
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
      More harrasment, rabbit trail and evasion from the OP. So I will ask you again. Do you care to discuss the OP points ?
      Yes, we believe in Jesus is to follow His teachings which producing godly fruit..

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Nanja View Post

        Is believing / faith a work?
        Faith comes by hearing the word of God and believing, and when we believe the truth, we are to turn from sin and obey God, and do the works as God starts to change our hearts. We can't fight our flesh without God, but we are to obey him and live by his will and in his time he will bless us with his Spirit and help us to overcome through Christ Jesus.

        Romans 10

        So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by marhig View Post
          Faith comes by hearing the word of God and believing, and when we believe the truth, we are to turn from sin and obey God, and do the works as God starts to change our hearts. We can't fight our flesh without God, but we are to obey him and live by his will and in his time he will bless us with his Spirit and help us to overcome through Christ Jesus.

          Romans 10

          So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
          Do you want to discuss the OP ?
          "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
          preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
          called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
          a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

          Charles Spurgeon !

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
            Do you want to discuss the OP ?
            Yes but my daughter has just walked in I'll speak about it later.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by marhig View Post
              Yes but my daughter has just walked in I'll speak about it later.
              Looking forward to it. Most folk want to discuss everything but the OP points!
              "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
              preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
              called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
              a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

              Charles Spurgeon !

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                Looking forward to it. Most folk want to discuss everything but the OP points!
                Then pay attention to what your opponents are saying. don't avoid them.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                  The answer is absolutely yes. If we agree with the overall definition of work according to the greek word for work ergon:

                  See strongs # 2041:

                  1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied
                    1. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

                  2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind


                  3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

                    A work is anything done, accomplished by #1 hand, #2 art, #3 industry, #4 or MIND

                    The mind is :

                    (in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.

                    Psychology. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.

                    So believing something via the mental activity and process of reasoning is work. The process of decision making is a activity, work of the mind.

                    Now for instance, the sin of hatred Gal 5:19-20


                    Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


                    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

                    [/B]! Yet in Vs 19 its stated as an work of the flesh

                    So activity in and with the mind/heart is a work, this cannot be denied..

                    Now believing is either a work of the flesh [unregenerate] or of the Spirit [ regenerated]




                  -"The answer is absolutely yes."
                  You say that belief which is causal to works pleasing to GOD is actually work itself; but energy/ effort is not causal to more energy/ effort/ potential in and of itself. Not to mention if one works to believe a thing then they don't in actuality, believe it, do they?

                  -"or mind"

                  Here you claim work can be a reference to the working or thought processes of the mind. But one can think on a thing and even know a thing wholly yet still not exert energy in accordance with knowledge, which is not work but literal chaos and indifference (unbelief).

                  -"How is that sin committed ?[B] It starts in the mind or heart"

                  Here you state that sin or rather work of either sort begins in the heart and or mind. This is true, as is the fact that temptation is sin; but sin observed or tempted by is not sin committed, but the knowledge there of, and as such, not work. So by extension; thought processes are not themselves work exactly. That in no way means we are not to turn from said temptation or that it will not flee upon such actual work.

                  -"But now Salvation is not by works, Neither by works of the flesh or works of the Spirit."
                  This being your supposed final point is nonsensical to me and self contradictory as salvation is of Faith which is somewhat synonymous with belief which is not work.

                  I have done what you requested after opting to leave. Please do not be overly accusatory towards me because of such.

                  peace







                  Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by popsthebuilder View Post
                    -"The answer is absolutely yes."
                    You say that belief which is causal to works pleasing to GOD is actually work itself; but energy/ effort is not causal to more energy/ effort/ potential in and of itself. Not to mention if one works to believe a thing then they don't in actuality, believe it, do they?

                    -"or mind"

                    Here you claim work can be a reference to the working or thought processes of the mind. But one can think on a thing and even know a thing wholly yet still not exert energy in accordance with knowledge, which is not work but literal chaos and indifference (unbelief).

                    -"How is that sin committed ?[B] It starts in the mind or heart"

                    Here you state that sin or rather work of either sort begins in the heart and or mind. This is true, as is the fact that temptation is sin; but sin observed or tempted by is not sin committed, but the knowledge there of, and as such, not work. So by extension; thought processes are not themselves work exactly. That in no way means we are not to turn from said temptation or that it will not flee upon such actual work.

                    -"But now Salvation is not by works, Neither by works of the flesh or works of the Spirit."
                    This being your supposed final point is nonsensical to me and self contradictory as salvation is of Faith which is somewhat synonymous with belief which is not work.

                    I have done what you requested after opting to leave. Please do not be overly accusatory towards me because of such.

                    peace







                    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
                    Ok believing is a work. I discussed why in my Op. You don't agree and u contradicted yourself by saying you agreed with me See post 29 and in the same breath you contradicted the point of the op by saying Faith is not a work.

                    Now you want to discuss something else which I'm not interested in and frankly i would appreciate it if you begin your own thread on topics you are interested in discussing with people.
                    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                    Charles Spurgeon !

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                      Ok believing is a work. I discussed why in my Op. You don't agree and u contradicted yourself by saying you agreed with me See post 29 and in the same breath you contradicted the point of the op by saying Faith is not a work.

                      Now you want to discuss something else which I'm not interested in and frankly i would appreciate it if you begin your own thread on topics you are interested in discussing with people.
                      I admit that I did unwittingly contradict myself. I'm human; it is a possibility.

                      But you saying you don't want to discuss your op with me point for point after asking me to note each point is kinda weak to me, but I'm only human, again, so

                      peace

                      ( And to be clear; I agreed initially because everything one does is work. But after more careful active thought, I recalled that belief in and of itself is not an active thought process, but knowledge(not work, but potential))

                      Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by popsthebuilder View Post
                        I admit that I did unwittingly contradict myself. I'm human; it is a possibility.

                        But you saying you don't want to discuss your op with me point for point after asking me to note each point is kinda weak to me, but I'm only human, again, so

                        peace

                        ( And to be clear; I agreed initially because everything one does is work. But after more careful active thought, I recalled that belief in and of itself is not an active thought process, but knowledge(not work, but potential))

                        Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
                        O.k. So let's leave it at that. In my opinion you contradicted yourself. I gave my points why i believe believing is a work, you disagree which you have a right to do. Discussion with you is over. I'm interested in someone else's input in discussing the points of the Op.
                        "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                        preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                        called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                        a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                        Charles Spurgeon !

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          FYI
                          (For those that cannot view the woodshed reports.)
                          Meshak has been booted from this thread. (For trolling and not addressing the points of the OP.)
                          She will not be able to respond to any of your posts.

                          We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
                          They already know monsters exist.
                          We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Is believing/faith a work ?

                            Again, yes it is. Its the action, function, deed of the mind, the soul, and heart. The word work ergon means:

                            work, labor, action, deed,

                            /érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose)




                            Phillip told the ethiopian eunuch Acts 8:37

                            And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

                            So if one bases their Salvation on believing, their act, they are basing it on their works, no way around it !
                            "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                            preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                            called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                            a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                            Charles Spurgeon !

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Any act of obedience to Gods command is a work, a good work. Believing on Christ is a commandment of God, so therefore a good work 1 Jn 3:23

                              And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

                              Acts 16:31

                              And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

                              The word believe here is the greek word
                              pisteuō and in this instance its an imperative which means:

                              The imperative mood corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. Thus, Jesus' phrase, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mk.1:15) is not at all an "invitation," but an absolute command requiring full obedience on the part of all hearers.

                              So believing here would be a good work performed by the Jailor if he obeyed the imperative !

                              And if his act of obeying this command caused God to save him, then he was saved because of a god work he performed !
                              "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                              preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                              called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                              a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                              Charles Spurgeon !

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                                The answer is absolutely yes. If we agree with the overall definition of work according to the greek word for work ergon:

                                See strongs # 2041:

                                1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied
                                  1. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

                                2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind



                                an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

                                A work is anything done, accomplished by #1 hand, #2 art, #3 industry, #4 or MIND
                                accomplished by the mind , gotta it

                                accomplish
                                1. to bring to its goal or conclusion; carry out; perform; finish:
                                2. to complete

                                accomplished
                                1. completed; done; effected:


                                The mind is :

                                (in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.


                                nothing there that can
                                accomplish a work

                                Psychology. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.
                                so thinking not working

                                So believing something via the mental activity and process of reasoning is work. The process of decision making is a activity, work of the mind.
                                mental activity can
                                accomplish nothing


                                Now for instance, the sin of hatred Gal 5:19-20
                                Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


                                20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

                                How is that sin committed ? It starts in the mind or heart ! Yet in Vs 19 its stated as an work of the flesh
                                again the definition you provided says accomplished

                                "any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind"

                                hatred needs to be carried out or performed to be manifested





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