The Vicarious Life and Death of Christ for the Believer

clefty

New member
You do understand that to be under the law is to be condemned, don't you? Galatians 3:10.

We are delivered from the law, Romans 7:6, so that we can live by the Holy Spirit and not the law.

" Who has made us able ministers of the New Testament; not of the letter (law) BUT OF THE SPIRIT: for the letter (law) kills , but the spirit gives life" 2 Corinthians 3:6.

“The law is holy just and good because the law reveals the nature and the character of God. God is holy, holy, holy, beyond human comprehension. In the judgment all things will be judged according to God's holy law. All wrongs will be made right and all rights will be rewarded“

That is exactly what you claim had been destroyed...

No Law means no more judgment day as law points out sin...

Is why you claim choose any day to rest as you think you rest every day as you insist the Law to rest the seventh day is abolished...a teaching against the custom which is what jews falsely accused both Stephen and Paul of teaching as if they taught the Law was changed...

But as jews were then you are now...a false witness

You can’t have it both ways

Law abolished and judgement day for ALL

Even those that cry out “LORD!LORD!” Or claim they are “in Christ” will have their judgement based on the Law still binding
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
“The law is holy just and good because the law reveals the nature and the character of God. God is holy, holy, holy, beyond human comprehension. In the judgment all things will be judged according to God's holy law. All wrongs will be made right and all rights will be rewarded“

That is exactly what you claim had been destroyed...

No Law means no more judgment day as law points out sin...

Is why you claim choose any day to rest as you think you rest every day as you insist the Law to rest the seventh day is abolished...a teaching against the custom which is what jews falsely accused both Stephen and Paul of teaching as if they taught the Law was changed...

But as jews were then you are now...a false witness

You can’t have it both ways

Law abolished and judgement day for ALL

Even those that cry out “LORD!LORD!” Or claim they are “in Christ” will have their judgement based on the Law still binding


There is no judgment or condemnation for those that are "In Christ" Romans 8:1.

If you are not "In Christ" you will be judged according to God's law and condemned.

To be "In Christ" means that you are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for your salvation, plus nothing.

Gospel believing Christians do not observe days, months, years, etc. Galatians 4:10,11.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
There is no judgment or condemnation for those that are "In Christ" Romans 8:1.

If you are not "In Christ" you will be judged according to God's law and condemned.

To be "In Christ" means that you are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for your salvation, plus nothing.

Gospel believing Christians do not observe days, months, years, etc. Galatians 4:10,11.
Irrelevant misdirection, create a moving target, straw man, to your satanic assertion, that Christ did not die for our sin debt, that you satanically revise, to He died to eliminate the law, SO THAT THERE IS NO SIN DEBT, FOR WHICH TO DIE.

Pate/the devil revises 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV,


From: Christ died for our sins...


To:Christ died to destroy the law, so that their is no offence, transgression/sin debt, from which He needs to die for...


And revises Romans 4:25 KJV

From: Who was delivered for our offences, ...



To: Who was delivered to destroy the law, so that their is no offence, transgression/sin debt, from which He needs to die for, be delivered, as there is no offence, as sin is not imputed when the law is abolished, as there is no sin debt.

....and perverting/corrupting Paul's teaching/point.


Devil child Pate asserts, on record, that the Saviour did not die for our sin debt/IOU, paying our debt, in our place, as the solution, and, instead, asserts, on record, that this "Jesus" is an incompetent, impotent fool,UNABLE TO DIE FOR ALL OF OUR SINS, future sins, as is God the Father, for even sending Him to die, as devil child Pate's "solution" to the sin/sins problem, is to eliminate the law that defines the sin/transgression, thus, "presto," there is no offense/transgression/sin for which to die, instead of the Saviour dying for our future sin debt. Do you all "get that," TOL audience? That, in simple terms, is this satanist "argument," breaking it down. Again, Pate asserts that the solution to the sin/sins issue, is not that the Saviour died for our sin debt in the future, which is contrary to us, for breaking the LORD God's perfect,good, holy,just, spiritual law, and a reflection of His character to both the saved and lost, and not that we are the problem, but the problem is with the law, as it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not spiritual, as laws against murder, rape, lying, stealing......are all contrary to us, so, instead of the Saviour dying in our place, to satisfy the debt/IOU, abolish the law, so that there is no offense/transgression/sin for which He should die, and thus abolish the Saviour's work, as Pate asserts that the Saviour DID NOT DIE FOR OUR FUTURE SINS, SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DIE, for our future sins/sin debt. Thus, Pate asserts he died in vain, for nothing, as his "solution" is to abolish/eliminate/destroy/make void the law, so that there is no future sin/transgression/offense, and associated/corresponding wage/sin debt to be paid for. Again-Pate-Christ died in vain.


Mayor STP:"It's not that complicated."




Pate argues that the solution to the sins issue, is not Christ dying for our sins, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, to blot out/wipe out/pay for the sin debt, both past/future, "man's IOU" for breaking the good, holy, spiritual law of God, per Paul, in Romans 7, which Paul asserts is not void, as the problem is not with man, but with the God's law, as he asserts that it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not just, it is not spiritual, as it is the law, that is contrary/against us, according to Pate, those troublesome prohibitions against murder, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery, lying......and not the sin debt/IOU that is contrary to/against us; Again, Pate denies that the sin debt/IOU is contrary/ against us, as He asserts that God's laws against murder, lying, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery,......................................are contrary/against us, are not for our benefit, are not good, not holy, not spiritual; His "solution" is for the LORD God to destroy/abolish/make void the law, so there is no offense to break, in the future, not Christ dying for our sins, He paying the debt/IOU for us, in our place.



Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU. Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...

Delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.



Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not prefect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.
 

clefty

New member
There is no judgment or condemnation for those that are "In Christ" Romans 8:1.

If you are not "In Christ" you will be judged according to God's law and condemned.
you claim the Law is abolished...so it doesnt matter if you are in Christ or not as there will be nothing to judge you by if you are not in Christ...

To be "In Christ" means that you are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for your salvation, plus nothing.

Gospel believing Christians do not observe days, months, years, etc. Galatians 4:10,11.

If there is No Law to condemn there is no need for salvation...

And Peter and Paul et al. DID observe...for the same reason those in the OT did...not to become saved but because they already were...

They were saved from Egypt and then given the Law and they wished to keep it...except for your kind who even though circumcised were still uncircumcised at heart...
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
No wonder what?

You reject and deny and ignore the Law is still binding?

The law is still binding for you, because you are still under it. In the judgment you will be judged by it and condemned.

But for the Christian there is no condemnation, Romans 8:1.

You and John W both have the same problem, you don't believe Paul, nor do you believe God's word.

"For as many as are under the works of the law are under the curse" Galatians 3:10.

That should scare the hell right out of you.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Irrelevant misdirection, create a moving target, straw man, to your satanic assertion, that Christ did not die for our sin debt, that you satanically revise, to He died to eliminate the law, SO THAT THERE IS NO SIN DEBT, FOR WHICH TO DIE.

Pate/the devil revises 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV,


From: Christ died for our sins...


To:Christ died to destroy the law, so that their is no offence, transgression/sin debt, from which He needs to die for...


And revises Romans 4:25 KJV

From: Who was delivered for our offences, ...



To: Who was delivered to destroy the law, so that their is no offence, transgression/sin debt, from which He needs to die for, be delivered, as there is no offence, as sin is not imputed when the law is abolished, as there is no sin debt.

....and perverting/corrupting Paul's teaching/point.


Devil child Pate asserts, on record, that the Saviour did not die for our sin debt/IOU, paying our debt, in our place, as the solution, and, instead, asserts, on record, that this "Jesus" is an incompetent, impotent fool,UNABLE TO DIE FOR ALL OF OUR SINS, future sins, as is God the Father, for even sending Him to die, as devil child Pate's "solution" to the sin/sins problem, is to eliminate the law that defines the sin/transgression, thus, "presto," there is no offense/transgression/sin for which to die, instead of the Saviour dying for our future sin debt. Do you all "get that," TOL audience? That, in simple terms, is this satanist "argument," breaking it down. Again, Pate asserts that the solution to the sin/sins issue, is not that the Saviour died for our sin debt in the future, which is contrary to us, for breaking the LORD God's perfect,good, holy,just, spiritual law, and a reflection of His character to both the saved and lost, and not that we are the problem, but the problem is with the law, as it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not spiritual, as laws against murder, rape, lying, stealing......are all contrary to us, so, instead of the Saviour dying in our place, to satisfy the debt/IOU, abolish the law, so that there is no offense/transgression/sin for which He should die, and thus abolish the Saviour's work, as Pate asserts that the Saviour DID NOT DIE FOR OUR FUTURE SINS, SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DIE, for our future sins/sin debt. Thus, Pate asserts he died in vain, for nothing, as his "solution" is to abolish/eliminate/destroy/make void the law, so that there is no future sin/transgression/offense, and associated/corresponding wage/sin debt to be paid for. Again-Pate-Christ died in vain.


Mayor STP:"It's not that complicated."




Pate argues that the solution to the sins issue, is not Christ dying for our sins, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, to blot out/wipe out/pay for the sin debt, both past/future, "man's IOU" for breaking the good, holy, spiritual law of God, per Paul, in Romans 7, which Paul asserts is not void, as the problem is not with man, but with the God's law, as he asserts that it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not just, it is not spiritual, as it is the law, that is contrary/against us, according to Pate, those troublesome prohibitions against murder, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery, lying......and not the sin debt/IOU that is contrary to/against us; Again, Pate denies that the sin debt/IOU is contrary/ against us, as He asserts that God's laws against murder, lying, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery,......................................are contrary/against us, are not for our benefit, are not good, not holy, not spiritual; His "solution" is for the LORD God to destroy/abolish/make void the law, so there is no offense to break, in the future, not Christ dying for our sins, He paying the debt/IOU for us, in our place.



Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU. Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...

Delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.



Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not prefect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.


Your rant is not with me. Your rant is with Paul and God's word.

You are in open rebellion against their teaching that the law has been abolished.

All that I am doing is pointing out the scripture that says that the law has been abolished for the Christian. You don't believe any of it. If I only had one scripture to convince me that the law has been abolished it would be this one.

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: FOR YOU ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE" Romans 6:14.

Because you don't believe God's word and you don't have faith that Jesus abolished the law for Christians, you will be judged by the law and condemned.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Your rant is not with me. Your rant is with Paul and God's word.

You are in open rebellion against their teaching that the law has been abolished.

All that I am doing is pointing out the scripture that says that the law has been abolished for the Christian. You don't believe any of it. If I only had one scripture to convince me that the law has been abolished it would be this one.

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: FOR YOU ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE" Romans 6:14.

Because you don't believe God's word and you don't have faith that Jesus abolished the law for Christians, you will be judged by the law and condemned.
Irrelevant misdirection, create a moving target, straw man, to your satanic assertion, that Christ did not die for our sin debt, that you satanically revise, to He died to eliminate the law, SO THAT THERE IS NO SIN DEBT, FOR WHICH TO DIE.

Pate/the devil revises 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV,


From: Christ died for our sins...


To:Christ died to destroy the law, so that their is no offence, transgression/sin debt, from which He needs to die for...


And revises Romans 4:25 KJV

From: Who was delivered for our offences, ...



To: Who was delivered to destroy the law, so that their is no offence, transgression/sin debt, from which He needs to die for, be delivered, as there is no offence, as sin is not imputed when the law is abolished, as there is no sin debt.

....and perverting/corrupting Paul's teaching/point.


Devil child Pate asserts, on record, that the Saviour did not die for our sin debt/IOU, paying our debt, in our place, as the solution, and, instead, asserts, on record, that this "Jesus" is an incompetent, impotent fool,UNABLE TO DIE FOR ALL OF OUR SINS, future sins, as is God the Father, for even sending Him to die, as devil child Pate's "solution" to the sin/sins problem, is to eliminate the law that defines the sin/transgression, thus, "presto," there is no offense/transgression/sin for which to die, instead of the Saviour dying for our future sin debt. Do you all "get that," TOL audience? That, in simple terms, is this satanist "argument," breaking it down. Again, Pate asserts that the solution to the sin/sins issue, is not that the Saviour died for our sin debt in the future, which is contrary to us, for breaking the LORD God's perfect,good, holy,just, spiritual law, and a reflection of His character to both the saved and lost, and not that we are the problem, but the problem is with the law, as it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not spiritual, as laws against murder, rape, lying, stealing......are all contrary to us, so, instead of the Saviour dying in our place, to satisfy the debt/IOU, abolish the law, so that there is no offense/transgression/sin for which He should die, and thus abolish the Saviour's work, as Pate asserts that the Saviour DID NOT DIE FOR OUR FUTURE SINS, SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DIE, for our future sins/sin debt. Thus, Pate asserts he died in vain, for nothing, as his "solution" is to abolish/eliminate/destroy/make void the law, so that there is no future sin/transgression/offense, and associated/corresponding wage/sin debt to be paid for. Again-Pate-Christ died in vain.


Mayor STP:"It's not that complicated."




Pate argues that the solution to the sins issue, is not Christ dying for our sins, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, to blot out/wipe out/pay for the sin debt, both past/future, "man's IOU" for breaking the good, holy, spiritual law of God, per Paul, in Romans 7, which Paul asserts is not void, as the problem is not with man, but with the God's law, as he asserts that it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not just, it is not spiritual, as it is the law, that is contrary/against us, according to Pate, those troublesome prohibitions against murder, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery, lying......and not the sin debt/IOU that is contrary to/against us; Again, Pate denies that the sin debt/IOU is contrary/ against us, as He asserts that God's laws against murder, lying, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery,......................................are contrary/against us, are not for our benefit, are not good, not holy, not spiritual; His "solution" is for the LORD God to destroy/abolish/make void the law, so there is no offense to break, in the future, not Christ dying for our sins, He paying the debt/IOU for us, in our place.



Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU. Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...

Delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.



Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not prefect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Your rant is not with me. Your rant is with Paul and God's word.

You are in open rebellion against their teaching that the law has been abolished.

All that I am doing is pointing out the scripture that says that the law has been abolished for the Christian. You don't believe any of it. If I only had one scripture to convince me that the law has been abolished it would be this one.

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: FOR YOU ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE" Romans 6:14.

Because you don't believe God's word and you don't have faith that Jesus abolished the law for Christians, you will be judged by the law and condemned.

Pate, asserts, demonically, that the problem is with the law, not him, as he asserts that it makes people sin, it is not holy, spiritual, perfect, good, and he asserts on record, that it has to be abolished, for one to be saved, as the law of God, such as prohibiting rape, lying, stealing, murder.........................IS CONTRARY TO EVERYONE, NOT THE SIN DEBT, for breaking these holy...........laws.


You are of your father, the devil.

This is why the law has been abolished for the Christian.

Intoxicated, demonic "logic," as this demon infested continually spams this made up "Abolished for Christians...UNABOLISHED for the lost," butchering, in demonism, corrupting, the meaning of the word, and, once again, satanically asserting that the Saviour DID NOT DIE FOR OUR FUTURE SIN DEBT, as HE DIED TO ABOLISH THE LAW, SO THAT THERE IS NO FUTURE SIN DEBT. Thus, he ASSERTS,ON RECORD, AGAIN, THAT THE SAVIOUR DIED FOR NOTHING.

"Blotting out the handwritten of ordinances THAT WAS AGAINST US, which was CONTRARY to us and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross" Colossians 2:14.
He again , satanically,like the devil, attempts to delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.

You vile, wicked spammer, as your daddy the devil keeps urging you to change/delete/replace scripture.

The $2 bill of the US has been cancelled.

"the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV,

Pate's devilish rendition:The US has been cancelled/The ordinances were cancelled.


Satanist.


Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not perfect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.

Jesus being kind and merciful, knew that we could not keep it or do it, so he abolished it for us, Ephesians 2:15. You should be very happy that the law has been abolished. Paul was.

No scripture asserts that the law was abolished, madevoid, you piece of dung, as over10 verses were given to you, that asserts just the opposite, BUT YOU DELETED THEM, demon.
"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in NEWNESS OF THE SPIRIT and not in the oldness of the letter (the law) Romans 7:6.
Pate: Delivered from=DESTROYED/MADE VOID/ABOLISHED


=satanic interpretation, butchering, corrupting the meaning of biblical words.

The purpose of the law is to judge and condemn. This is why Paul wrote to the law loving Galatians that were trying to be justified by their works.
Irrelevant to your "argument" that the law of God vanished, and your on record argument that the Saviour did not die for our sin debt.

To be under the law is to be under a curse, Galatians 3:10. Those that are under the law will perish, simply because their righteousness does not meet the standards of God's law, Romans 3:23. Let's be honest John. Do you want to stand before God in the judgment? not me. I want Jesus to stand in my place in the judgment. The only thing that is going to pass in the judgment is the righteousness of Christ. If you are not found to be in him you will perish, Philippians 3:9.

Pate:If the laws of foreign countries exist, US citizens are under their jurisdiction, and judged as guilty, so they must be destroyed.


Pate: This "Jesus" did not solve the sin issue by becoming a curse for us, being judged in our place. NO!!!!!!!!!God destroyed the law, so that there would be NO CURSE, NO SIN DEBT, for which to die!!!

YOU VILE PERVETER of the gospel of Christ-on record.


Pate/the devil revises 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV,


From: Christ died for our sins...


To:Christ died to destroy the law, so that their is no offence, transgression/sin debt, from which He needs to die for...


And revises Romans 4:25 KJV

From: Who was delivered for our offences, ...



To: Who was delivered to destroy the law, so that their is no offence, transgression/sin debt, from which He needs to die for, be delivered, as there is no offence, as sin is not imputed when the law is abolished, as there is no sin debt.

....and perverting/corrupting Paul's teaching/point.


Devil child Pate asserts, on record, that the Saviour did not die for our sin debt/IOU, paying our debt, in our place, as the solution, and, instead, asserts, on record, that this "Jesus" is an incompetent, impotent fool,UNABLE TO DIE FOR ALL OF OUR SINS, future sins, as is God the Father, for even sending Him to die, as devil child Pate's "solution" to the sin/sins problem, is to eliminate the law that defines the sin/transgression, thus, "presto," there is no offense/transgression/sin for which to die, instead of the Saviour dying for our future sin debt. Do you all "get that," TOL audience? That, in simple terms, is this satanist "argument," breaking it down. Again, Pate asserts that the solution to the sin/sins issue, is not that the Saviour died for our sin debt in the future, which is contrary to us, for breaking the LORD God's perfect,good, holy,just, spiritual law, and a reflection of His character to both the saved and lost, and not that we are the problem, but the problem is with the law, as it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not spiritual, as laws against murder, rape, lying, stealing......are all contrary to us, so, instead of the Saviour dying in our place, to satisfy the debt/IOU, abolish the law, so that there is no offense/transgression/sin for which He should die, and thus abolish the Saviour's work, as Pate asserts that the Saviour DID NOT DIE FOR OUR FUTURE SINS, SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DIE, for our future sins/sin debt. Thus, Pate asserts he died in vain, for nothing, as his "solution" is to abolish/eliminate/destroy/make void the law, so that there is no future sin/transgression/offense, and associated/corresponding wage/sin debt to be paid for. Again-Pate-Christ died in vain.


Mayor STP:"It's not that complicated."




Pate argues that the solution to the sins issue, is not Christ dying for our sins, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, to blot out/wipe out/pay for the sin debt, both past/future, "man's IOU" for breaking the good, holy, spiritual law of God, per Paul, in Romans 7, which Paul asserts is not void, as the problem is not with man, but with the God's law, as he asserts that it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not just, it is not spiritual, as it is the law, that is contrary/against us, according to Pate, those troublesome prohibitions against murder, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery, lying......and not the sin debt/IOU that is contrary to/against us; Again, Pate denies that the sin debt/IOU is contrary/ against us, as He asserts that God's laws against murder, lying, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery,......................................are contrary/against us, are not for our benefit, are not good, not holy, not spiritual; His "solution" is for the LORD God to destroy/abolish/make void the law, so there is no offense to break, in the future, not Christ dying for our sins, He paying the debt/IOU for us, in our place.



Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU. Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...

Delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.



Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not prefect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. If there was one sin that Jesus had not atoned for Jesus would still be in Joseph's new tomb.

The sin question has been dealt with. Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15 and now sits in heaven at the right hand of God as... "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

Not only did Jesus defeat sin, death and the devil he also fulfilled every jot and tittle of the law, Matthew 5:18 and then abolished it for Christians, Ephesians 2:15. This is why Paul wrote, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17 and not by laws, rules or religion.

Anyone that claims to be a Christian and then refers to other Christians as demons has a serious spiritual problem. You are not able to receive truth. You are not able to believe what the Bible is saying.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Your rant is not with me. Your rant is with Paul and God's word.

You are in open rebellion against their teaching that the law has been abolished.

No scripture teaches that, you vile demon.


TELL US PATE: WHEN YOU SIN, WHAT OBJECTIVELY TELLS YOU THAT YOU HAVE COMMITTED A SIN/TRANSGRESSION/OFFENCE, if there is no law, to define it.


All that I am doing is pointing out the scripture that says that the law has been abolished for the Christian. You don't believe any of it.

No Christian believes that satanism, you demon, and no Christian changes :


Romans 3:31 KJV Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


To: Do we then make void the law through faith? yea, we abolish the law.

...as you do.


And no Christian deletes these verses, as you do, demon:

Psalms 111 KJV

7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.

8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.

Matthew 5:17 KJV Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.


Psalm 119:151-152 KJV, Psalms 119:159-160 KJV

151 Thou art near, O Lord; and all thy commandments are truth.152 Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever.
159 Consider how I love thy precepts: quicken me, O LORD, according to thy lovingkindness. 160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever



If I only had one scripture to convince me that the law has been abolished it would be this one.


"For sin shall not have dominion over you: FOR YOU ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE" Romans 6:14.

Pate: Not being under the jurisdiction of a law, means it no longer exists.



TELL US PATE: WHAT OBJECTIVE SOURCE TELLS YOU THAT MURDER, RAPE, LYING, STEALING......................................ARE WRONG? IT CANNOT BE THE LAW,AS, ACCORDING TO YOU, IT NO LONGER EXISTS.


Go ahead, demon. Stuff your spam, and answer the question, you've been asked by many TOL members, for months.

Because you don't believe God's word and you don't have faith that Jesus abolished the law for Christians, you will be judged by the law and condemned.

Wow, Pate! You stumped us again, with, "you don't believe God's word."

you don't have faith that Jesus abolished the law for Christians, you will be judged by the law and condemned
Pate: If the laws of foreign countries exist, US citizens are automatically judged by that law and condemned.

Pate: If the local laws of speed limits, against rape, murder, are not abolished, I will be judged by that law and condemned. Eliminate the aw!!!!!!!!!! That is the solution.These laws are contrary to us all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Eliminate the law, SO THAT I CANNOT BE JUDGED/CONDEMNED!!!!!!!!Eliminate God's law, SO THAT I CANNOT HAVE A SIN DEBT CHARGED TO ME!!!!! I DO NOT NEED THE SAVIOUR DYING FOR MY SIN DEBT!!!!!JUST ELIMINATE THE LAW, SO THAT THERE IS NO SIN DEBT!!!!!!!!!


No, you listen up, you vile perverter: The Lord Jesus Christ came to die for our OUR SIN DEBT, our TRANSGRESSION, our OFFENCES, which, by definition, is created by breaking the LORD God's existing holy law.
YOU REJECT THAT, and "propose" eliminating the law, so that there is no SIN DEBT, for which would die. YOU REJECT THAT HE DIED FOR YOUR SIN Debt, FOR BREAKING HIS LAW-ON RECORD.


NOW, again, tell us how you can sin, if there is no objective law, spelling out what sin is.


TELL ALL OF TOL-NOW.
 
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john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. If there was one sin that Jesus had not atoned for Jesus would still be in Joseph's new tomb.

The sin question has been dealt with. Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15 and now sits in heaven at the right hand of God as... "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

Not only did Jesus defeat sin, death and the devil he also fulfilled every jot and tittle of the law, Matthew 5:18 and then abolished it for Christians, Ephesians 2:15. This is why Paul wrote, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17 and not by laws, rules or religion.

Anyone that claims to be a Christian and then refers to other Christians as demons has a serious spiritual problem. You are not able to receive truth. You are not able to believe what the Bible is saying.

Irrelevant misdirection, create a moving target, straw man, to your satanic assertion, that Christ did not die for our sin debt, that you satanically revise, to He died to eliminate the law, SO THAT THERE IS NO SIN DEBT, FOR WHICH TO DIE.

Pate/the devil revises 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV,


From: Christ died for our sins...


To:Christ died to destroy the law, so that their is no offence, transgression/sin debt, from which He needs to die for...


And revises Romans 4:25 KJV

From: Who was delivered for our offences, ...



To: Who was delivered to destroy the law, so that their is no offence, transgression/sin debt, from which He needs to die for, be delivered, as there is no offence, as sin is not imputed when the law is abolished, as there is no sin debt.

....and perverting/corrupting Paul's teaching/point.


Devil child Pate asserts, on record, that the Saviour did not die for our sin debt/IOU, paying our debt, in our place, as the solution, and, instead, asserts, on record, that this "Jesus" is an incompetent, impotent fool,UNABLE TO DIE FOR ALL OF OUR SINS, future sins, as is God the Father, for even sending Him to die, as devil child Pate's "solution" to the sin/sins problem, is to eliminate the law that defines the sin/transgression, thus, "presto," there is no offense/transgression/sin for which to die, instead of the Saviour dying for our future sin debt. Do you all "get that," TOL audience? That, in simple terms, is this satanist "argument," breaking it down. Again, Pate asserts that the solution to the sin/sins issue, is not that the Saviour died for our sin debt in the future, which is contrary to us, for breaking the LORD God's perfect,good, holy,just, spiritual law, and a reflection of His character to both the saved and lost, and not that we are the problem, but the problem is with the law, as it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not spiritual, as laws against murder, rape, lying, stealing......are all contrary to us, so, instead of the Saviour dying in our place, to satisfy the debt/IOU, abolish the law, so that there is no offense/transgression/sin for which He should die, and thus abolish the Saviour's work, as Pate asserts that the Saviour DID NOT DIE FOR OUR FUTURE SINS, SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DIE, for our future sins/sin debt. Thus, Pate asserts he died in vain, for nothing, as his "solution" is to abolish/eliminate/destroy/make void the law, so that there is no future sin/transgression/offense, and associated/corresponding wage/sin debt to be paid for. Again-Pate-Christ died in vain.


Mayor STP:"It's not that complicated."




Pate argues that the solution to the sins issue, is not Christ dying for our sins, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, to blot out/wipe out/pay for the sin debt, both past/future, "man's IOU" for breaking the good, holy, spiritual law of God, per Paul, in Romans 7, which Paul asserts is not void, as the problem is not with man, but with the God's law, as he asserts that it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not just, it is not spiritual, as it is the law, that is contrary/against us, according to Pate, those troublesome prohibitions against murder, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery, lying......and not the sin debt/IOU that is contrary to/against us; Again, Pate denies that the sin debt/IOU is contrary/ against us, as He asserts that God's laws against murder, lying, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery,......................................are contrary/against us, are not for our benefit, are not good, not holy, not spiritual; His "solution" is for the LORD God to destroy/abolish/make void the law, so there is no offense to break, in the future, not Christ dying for our sins, He paying the debt/IOU for us, in our place.



Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU. Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...

Delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.



Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not prefect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. If there was one sin that Jesus had not atoned for Jesus would still be in Joseph's new tomb.

The sin question has been dealt with. Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15 and now sits in heaven at the right hand of God as... "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

Not only did Jesus defeat sin, death and the devil he also fulfilled every jot and tittle of the law, Matthew 5:18 and then abolished it for Christians, Ephesians 2:15. This is why Paul wrote, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17 and not by laws, rules or religion.

Anyone that claims to be a Christian and then refers to other Christians as demons has a serious spiritual problem. You are not able to receive truth. You are not able to believe what the Bible is saying.

TELL US PATE: WHAT OBJECTIVE SOURCE TELLS YOU THAT MURDER, RAPE, LYING, STEALING......................................ARE WRONG? IT CANNOT BE THE LAW,AS, ACCORDING TO YOU, IT NO LONGER EXISTS.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. If there was one sin that Jesus had not atoned for Jesus would still be in Joseph's new tomb.

The sin question has been dealt with. Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15 and now sits in heaven at the right hand of God as... "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

Not only did Jesus defeat sin, death and the devil he also fulfilled every jot and tittle of the law, Matthew 5:18 and then abolished it for Christians, Ephesians 2:15. This is why Paul wrote, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17 and not by laws, rules or religion.

Anyone that claims to be a Christian and then refers to other Christians as demons has a serious spiritual problem. You are not able to receive truth. You are not able to believe what the Bible is saying.

NOW, again, tell us how you can sin, if there is no objective law, spelling out what sin is.

Tell us what Christ died for. It cannot be our future sins, as, according to you, there is no law, so there is no sin/transgression, to be died for.


GO AHEAD PATE-TELL ALL OF TOL.
 

clefty

New member
The law is still binding for you, because you are still under it. In the judgment you will be judged
THERE SEE IT? Christians will be judged by what? According to what standard?

Why even have a judgement if there is no more Law?

And further why even have Him sacrificed tortured killed if the Law could be changed?


by what? Yes the unchanging not destroyed Law...as ALL ARE JUDGED BY...since ALL HAVE SINNED

But it remains:

HERE ARE THEY THAT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS...sorry cap button stuck...and the Faith OF Jesus...so how closely does your lifestyle follow Him HIS WAY?,,,HIS FAITH WALK?



and condemned.
nope. Not if I am judged as one who wishes to ABIDE IN HIM HIS LOVE by doing what....HOW?


But for the Christian there is no condemnation, Romans 8:1.
but there remains and must be judgement first...

You and John W both have the same problem, you don't believe Paul, nor do you believe God's word.

"For as many as are under the works of the law are under the curse" Galatians 3:10.
to be under the works of the Law means to desire to earn your way to heaven by keeping the law...

NEVER SAID THAT...rather since I am already saved...I WANT TO SHOW MY GRATITUDE for what was done...so I obey...

You know...faith with works...the works HE gave us to do...not the ones the church or man’s other traditions gave us...

That should scare the hell right out of you.
I suspected that was your primary motivation...to keep from hell...

Explains your obsession with no law as you think it equals no condemnation...

You really think “LORD! LORD!” is enough eh?
 
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john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. If there was one sin that Jesus had not atoned for Jesus would still be in Joseph's new tomb.

The sin question has been dealt with.
All believers are sinners...I am a sinner...
NOW, again, tell us how you can sin, if there is no objective law, spelling out what sin is.

Tell all of TOL.


And tell all of TOL, why murder, stealing, lying,.............................................................................................................are wrong.

"Cuz" you say so?

Go ahead.

Tell us what Christ died for. It cannot be our future sins, as, according to you, there is no law, so there is no sin/transgression, to be died for.


Tell all of TOL, Pate, how Christ can die for all our future sins, "The sin question has been dealt with," IF THERE IS NO LAW, BY WHICH THE TRANSGRESSION/SIN IS DEFINED?


GO AHEAD PATE-TELL ALL OF TOL.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
You are in conflict with the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ.

Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15. He has also fulfilled every jot and tittle of the law, Matthew 5:18 and then for our sake he abolished it because it was contrary to us, Colossians 2:14.

"KNOWING THIS THAT THE LAW IS NOT MADE FOR THE RIGHTEOUS MAN, BUT FOR THE LAWLESS AND DISOBEDIENT" 1 Timothy 1:9.

You are apparently lawless and disobedient. All that have faith in Christ and his Gospel are indwelt with the Holy Spirit and are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. They are not concerned about laws, rules or religion. Christ is their righteousness. Christ is also their justifier, sanctifier and redeemer, 1 Corinthians 1:30.

People like yourself are concerned about laws, rules and religion simply because that is your Jesus. Telling you that the law has been abolished is like telling you that your Jesus has been abolished. This is one reason that the Pharisees wanted to kill Paul. Paul told the Pharisees that the law had been abolished and that now they were to live by faith and not by laws and religion, Romans 1:17.

The law is your life, when Jesus should be your life. You are a modern day Pharisee.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
How about Psalm 51:5.

If "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. I would bet that they were born after Adam.

"Wherefore as by one man sin entered the world and death by sin; and so death PASSED UPON ALL MEN, for that all have sinned" Roman5:12.

Nope, none say we are born in sin.
 

clefty

New member
You are in conflict with the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ.

Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15. He has also fulfilled every jot and tittle of the law, Matthew 5:18 and then for our sake he abolished it because it was contrary to us, Colossians 2:14.

"KNOWING THIS THAT THE LAW IS NOT MADE FOR THE RIGHTEOUS MAN, BUT FOR THE LAWLESS AND DISOBEDIENT" 1 Timothy 1:9.

You are apparently lawless and disobedient. All that have faith in Christ and his Gospel are indwelt with the Holy Spirit and are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. They are not concerned about laws, rules or religion. Christ is their righteousness. Christ is also their justifier, sanctifier and redeemer, 1 Corinthians 1:30.

People like yourself are concerned about laws, rules and religion simply because that is your Jesus. Telling you that the law has been abolished is like telling you that your Jesus has been abolished. This is one reason that the Pharisees wanted to kill Paul. Paul told the Pharisees that the law had been abolished and that now they were to live by faith and not by laws and religion, Romans 1:17.

The law is your life, when Jesus should be your life. You are a modern day Pharisee.

Pharisees were merely zealous that the Law was enforced...as with the woman allegedly caught in adultery...He is zealous we “are forgiven” from the still binding law and “go and sin no more”...
 
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