Truth distorted by our own people

[CherubRam]

Truth

John 4:24
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

Acts 20:29-30
29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

Romans 1:18
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

Romans 1:25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Romans 2:2
Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.

Romans 2:8
But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

1 Corinthians 13:6
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

2 Corinthians 4:2
Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

Galatians 4:16
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?

2 Timothy 2:15
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

2 Timothy 4:4
They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

2 Peter 2:2
Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

 

[CherubRam]

Joining Paganism to God is a sin.

 

[CherubRam]

I see no comments.

What things have been introduced since the original teachings?

 

[CherubRam]

It is not a good sign for Christians to dodge these important questions.

 

[CherubRam]

Pope Gregory and Paganism.
The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: “You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.”
Not only were the Congregations divided by Gnosticism, but enticed by philosophy and paganism also, and there were geographic divisions as well.
Pope Gregory 540 – 12 March 604.

What were the Pagan beliefs harmonized with Christianity? Maybe the answer can be found by comparing Orthodox Judaism to Paganism.

 

[CherubRam]

The U.S. Navy made a decision that Messianic Jewish chaplains must wear as their insignia the Christian cross, and not the tablets of the law, the insignia of Jewish chaplains. According to Yeshiva World News, a website covering stories of Jewish interest, the Navy Uniform Board commanded that Michael Hiles, a candidate for chaplaincy, wear the Christian cross insignia. Hiles resigned from the program, rather than wear the cross. Rabbi Eric Tokajer, a spokesman for the Messianic Jewish movement, responded that "This decision essentially bars Messianic Jews from serving as chaplains within the U.S. Navy because it would require them to wear an insignia inconsistent with their faith and belief system."

Christ died on a stake, not a cross. The cross is an ancient Pagan symbol.

 

[iamaberean]

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Mat 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

 

[CherubRam]

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Mat 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

I have been trying to get Christians to be aware that long ago Pagans took over Christianity.

[FONT=&quot]Jude[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

1. Jude, a servant of Yahshua the Messiah, and brother of James, and to them that are sanctified by Yahwah the Father, also called and saved by Yahshua the Messiah.
2. May mercy, peace, and devotion, be multiplied to you.
3. Loved, I was eager to write to you about the salvation we share, it was necessary for me to write to you, and encourage you to earnestly contend for the faith that was given to the saints.
4. Because you are unaware that certain men have sneaked in, who are of a ancient order to their condemnation,...[/FONT]

 

[Squeaky]

2 Tim 4:1-4

1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:
2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
(NKJ)

 

[iamaberean]

Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:

Luk 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

 

[CherubRam]

Thank you for posting.

Everyone should be aware that things have been introduced into Christianity that do not belong.

What kind of Christian do you want to be? A Judaic Christian, or a Pagan Christian?

It was the Catholics who canonized the scriptures.

Pope Gregory and Paganism.
The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: “You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.”
Not only were the Congregations divided by Gnosticism, but enticed by philosophy and paganism also, and there were geographic divisions as well.
Pope Gregory 540 – 12 March 604.

What were the Pagan beliefs harmonized with Christianity? The answer can be found by comparing Orthodox Judaism to Paganism.

 

[freelight]

Shake and Bake......

Shake and Bake......

Everyone should be aware that things have been introduced into Christianity that do not belong.

What kind of Christian do you want to be? A Judaic Christian, or a Pagan Christian?

Of course, Christianity has pagan DNA,......there is no religion that does not to some degree have some influence, correlaries or adaptations affecting their own belief-systems from contacting cultures, so that Judaism itself has been affected by the cultures and religions it has come into assocation with.

If you want to be a so called 'Judiac Christian', as contrasted to a more western traditionalized 'pagan christian' (RCC and her various protestant daughters), well....you'll likely be called a 'judaizer' by the modern pop christians, and take up some messianic form of 'judeo-christian' hybrid, which has so many varities,...some which reject Paul as a true apostle of Jesus, some which hold him with some suspicion, others who accept him, but this compromises certain aspects of one's loyalty to orthodox Judaism, so its a complicated matter,...one that the Jerusalem Council in the book of Acts did not fully resolve. So, you have the quandary of Paul to deal with, and just HOW MUCH you want to be a Jewish follower of Jesus, like his ORIGINAL apostles were, unlike Paul, who came preaching his own gospel. - thats just for starters.

It was the Catholics who canonized the scriptures.

Well,..any organized faith-tradition will end up 'canonizing' or compiling their religious writings, while some schools may adopt some that other schools reject, which has been the case within the judeo-christian traditions.

Pope Gregory and Paganism.
The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: “You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.”
Not only were the Congregations divided by Gnosticism, but enticed by philosophy and paganism also, and there were geographic divisions as well.
Pope Gregory 540 – 12 March 604.

It is the hallmark of true religious aspiration and practice to recognize those moral, ethical and spiritual principles which are universal, so there is nothing wrong with another school accepting these from other schools, in their various forms, even if 'christianized' to some degree or another. It may be that the universal precepts recognized in paganism pre-date those found in Christianity,...the latter just 'reformatting' or 'repackaging' the mythology, which allegorically illustrate the universal truths.

What were the Pagan beliefs harmonized with Christianity? The answer can be found by comparing Orthodox Judaism to Paganism.

Its a mixed bag, no matter what kind of 'shake and bake' powder you use to coat your drumsticks with

If you would really stick with Jesus and his original apostles, as the pillars of the Jerusalem Community, and the original teachings, you might become an orthodox Jew NOW, whatever that takes, with whatever innovations Jesus brought to his own branch of that, IF (notice IF) you can ascertain just what this all entails, and if you could know for sure how to practice the religion of Jesus, AS he practiced it, to truly BE his disciple, without adopting Paul's gospel, unless you believe he is a Torah observing faithful JEW, which his epistles outrightly contest, as his attitude towards the pillars was haughty and a bit adversarial, as he did so much to bolster his own 'gospel claims' and 'apostleship'.

Will you be a disciple of Jesus or Paul? Some have assumed a compromise of these two, others maintain a difference which has some import.

 

[Nihilo]

I see no comments.

What things have been introduced since the original teachings?

Teachings against masturbation, pornography, abortion, child abuse, have been introduced since the original biblical teachings.

 

[CherubRam]

Of course, Christianity has pagan DNA,......there is no religion that does not to some degree have some influence, correlaries or adaptations affecting their own belief-systems from contacting cultures, so that Judaism itself has been affected by the cultures and religions it has come into assocation with.

If you want to be a so called 'Judiac Christian', as contrasted to a more western traditionalized 'pagan christian' (RCC and her various protestant daughters), well....you'll likely be called a 'judaizer' by the modern pop christians, and take up some messianic form of 'judeo-christian' hybrid, which has so many varities,...some which reject Paul as a true apostle of Jesus, some which hold him with some suspicion, others who accept him, but this compromises certain aspects of one's loyalty to orthodox Judaism, so its a complicated matter,...one that the Jerusalem Council in the book of Acts did not fully resolve. So, you have the quandary of Paul to deal with, and just HOW MUCH you want to be a Jewish follower of Jesus, like his ORIGINAL apostles were, unlike Paul, who came preaching his own gospel. - thats just for starters.



Well,..any organized faith-tradition will end up 'canonizing' or compiling their religious writings, while some schools may adopt some that other schools reject, which has been the case within the judeo-christian traditions.



It is the hallmark of true religious aspiration and practice to recognize those moral, ethical and spiritual principles which are universal, so there is nothing wrong with another school accepting these from other schools, in their various forms, even if 'christianized' to some degree or another. It may be that the universal precepts recognized in paganism pre-date those found in Christianity,...the latter just 'reformatting' or 'repackaging' the mythology, which allegorically illustrate the universal truths.



Its a mixed bag, no matter what kind of 'shake and bake' powder you use to coat your drumsticks with

If you would really stick with Jesus and his original apostles, as the pillars of the Jerusalem Community, and the original teachings, you might become an orthodox Jew NOW, whatever that takes, with whatever innovations Jesus brought to his own branch of that, IF (notice IF) you can ascertain just what this all entails, and if you could know for sure how to practice the religion of Jesus, AS he practiced it, to truly BE his disciple, without adopting Paul's gospel, unless you believe he is a Torah observing faithful JEW, which his epistles outrightly contest, as his attitude towards the pillars was haughty and a bit adversarial, as he did so much to bolster his own 'gospel claims' and 'apostleship'.

Will you be a disciple of Jesus or Paul? Some have assumed a compromise of these two, others maintain a difference which has some import.

Teachings against masturbation, pornography, abortion, child abuse, have been introduced since the original biblical teachings.

What changes have been made to the bible since the beginning? Christ and the disciples were combating Paganism and Gnosticism from the beginning. What has been added to the bible by the Catholics?

 

[freelight]

The chrism of the Spirit......

The chrism of the Spirit......

What changes have been made to the bible since the beginning? Christ and the disciples were combating Paganism and Gnosticism from the beginning. What has been added to the bible by the Catholics?

I already grant changes and editing done to both OT and NT texts, so a study of all textual traditions and extant manuscripts is of course essential here. Granted some differences in NT manuscripts exist, the consensus that evolved on the standard NT canon as we now still have it, seems to have been formed or accepted as a collection by the 4th or 5th century, with some books being more or less questionable, along with other apocryphal or intertestamental works. Since I reject the concept of biblical inerrancy, deeminh it 'unnecessary', changes in so called 'scripture' are merely incidental, since they simply reflect the religious-politics of the day, every scribe and its religious community serving their own 'agendas'.

I may differ in my opinion of pagan teaching and 'Gnosticism' since I see in some of these schools valid and significant contributions to the development of Christianity, but as far as specifics of what the RCC may have 'added' or what they may have 'taken out' is more difficult to posit, beyond the obvious general concensus eventually accepted, while books deemed of lesser inspiration or authority receded from the canon, or assumed an 'apocryphal' status.

A good primer on this might be Bart Ehrmans books or perhaps a more scolding treatment by Joseph Wheless, 'Forgery in Christianity'.

Concerning Gnosticism, we have a good many still extant works, the gospel of Thomas, the Nag Hammadi Library, and the Valentinian branch of Gnostic Christianity is pretty near as orthodox as you can get, with a gnostic twist,...but dont forget....the 'key of knowledge' is essential if one would open the door to the kingdom, if any but John's gospel shows, and which is somewhat gnostic in nature. ('God' is light, love, spirit, truth). - the kingdom is spiritual, and spiritually discerned.

Paul as well, if you deem any inspiration or usefulness in his teachings, was a 'gnostic' holding the vision and key to a 'hidden mystery' in Christ, and whose gospel is patterned after initiation processes also observed in other mystery religious cults. The process of the soul's regeneration and transformation is universal, archetyped thru the death, burial, resurrection and ascension of the 'god-man', who represents the man all are to become, as the perfected Adam, humanity taking on divinity, and divinity merging with humanity. The kingdom has always been that which is discovered 'within' the soul via spiritual recognition, regeneration and discernment so that it is first essentially a condition of spirit-communion.

 

[CherubRam]

I already grant changes and editing done to both OT and NT texts, so a study of all textual traditions and extant manuscripts is of course essential here. Granted some differences in NT manuscripts exist, the consensus that evolved on the standard NT canon as we now still have it, seems to have been formed or accepted as a collection by the 4th or 5th century, with some books being more or less questionable, along with other apocryphal or intertestamental works. Since I reject the concept of biblical inerrancy, deeminh it 'unnecessary', changes in so called 'scripture' are merely incidental, since they simply reflect the religious-politics of the day, every scribe and its religious community serving their own 'agendas'.

I may differ in my opinion of pagan teaching and 'Gnosticism' since I see in some of these schools valid and significant contributions to the development of Christianity, but as far as specifics of what the RCC may have 'added' or what they may have 'taken out' is more difficult to posit, beyond the obvious general concensus eventually accepted, while books deemed of lesser inspiration or authority receded from the canon, or assumed an 'apocryphal' status.

A good primer on this might be Bart Ehrmans books or perhaps a more scolding treatment by Joseph Wheless, 'Forgery in Christianity'.

Concerning Gnosticism, we have a good many still extant works, the gospel of Thomas, the Nag Hammadi Library, and the Valentinian branch of Gnostic Christianity is pretty near as orthodox as you can get, with a gnostic twist,...but dont forget....the 'key of knowledge' is essential if one would open the door to the kingdom, if any but John's gospel shows, and which is somewhat gnostic in nature. ('God' is light, love, spirit, truth). - the kingdom is spiritual, and spiritually discerned.

Paul as well, if you deem any inspiration or usefulness in his teachings, was a 'gnostic' holding the vision and key to a 'hidden mystery' in Christ, and whose gospel is patterned after initiation processes also observed in other mystery religious cults. The process of the soul's regeneration and transformation is universal, archetyped thru the death, burial, resurrection and ascension of the 'god-man', who represents the man all are to become, as the perfected Adam, humanity taking on divinity, and divinity merging with humanity. The kingdom has always been that which is discovered 'within' the soul via spiritual recognition, regeneration and discernment so that it is first essentially a condition of spirit-communion.

Paganism and Gnosticism is what Christ and the disciples were combating.

 

[freelight]

Understanding terms, and seeing the broader context of church history.......

Understanding terms, and seeing the broader context of church history.......

Paganism and Gnosticism is what Christ and the disciples were combating.

This is debatable, and it could be argued that some streams within Gnosticism ( a term that some scholars are wanting to avoid because of certain connotations associated with it, as it includes a wide umbrella of schools, and independently can refer to any student of the inner path, who values 'gnosis' as his own personal 'experience' of the divine) are actually true forms of teaching taught by Jesus (consider 'Q', gospel of Thomas, others) and Paul, who taught 'hidden mysteries' revealed only by the Spirit - so we must be clear on our terms as to the general and specific knowledge and studies in these fields. Jesus said the Spirit would lead, guide and teach,...Paul got his gospel by 'revelation' and his own interpretation of 'scriptures'...which seems to me to qualify as a 'gnostic-path' approach. Remember, 'gnosis' means 'knowledge', referring to a personal experiential knowledge of 'God', a direct spiritual experience.

I think common universal truths are recognized in all schools, particularly those that intuit the truth within Nature and her cycles (noted among pagan traditions), and those who recognize the hidden mysteries revealed by the Spirit (noted among various gnostic schools), - esoteric wisdom and the allegorical. So, something could be had within pagan traditions, and Gnostic, since knowledge is something Jesus and true teachers would be giving to their disciples. Jesus taught 'secret teachings' in private to his inner circle, did he not? while the rest got only parables to ponder. There is a public and esoteric teaching. The latter are only for initiates or those devoted to study the inner mysteries.

~*~*~

But back to your inquiry of what books the RCC may have 'added' or taken out, again....can you be specific? I dont see a large scale tampering except maybe some creative doctoring of some passages, as the manuscript evidence for most of the NT is pretty solid, at least among the extant copies, although variations exist. Some books could have been tampered with early in their evolution, but ceased as a more universal concensus and copying of the commonly accepted books became more accessible for all to see, like in the 4th century onward as our oldest complete Bibles with the NT kept by Christians are from the 4th century or later.

Therefore, from the 4th century onwards, after the most of the dust from the Arian Controversy settled,...the main creeds and formal dogmas of orthodox Christianity (self claimed and made) were established by regal authority, making Jesus into 'God Almighty', securing the Trinity-doctrine, and preparing the course for "the church" to further establish itself as God's sole custodian of truth, by apostolic succession and other assumed credentials.

 

[Nihilo]

What changes have been made to the bible since the beginning?

When was the beginning? When the books were written? Or sometime afterward?

Christ and the disciples were combating Paganism and Gnosticism from the beginning. What has been added to the bible by the Catholics?

"The Catholics" is exactly the same as the Church, back when the Church codified the Christian Bible as 73 books. The Catholic Church since then hasn't changed the Bible. "The Protestants," have.

 

[CherubRam]

Trinity
In the fourth-century, Marcellus of Ancyra declared that the idea of the Godhead existing as three hypostases (hidden spiritual realities) came from Plato through the teachings of Valentinus. Valentinus is quoted as teaching that God is three and three prosopa (persons) called the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit:

Now with the heresy of the Ariomaniacs, which has corrupted the Church of God...These then teach three hypostases, just as Valentinus the heresiarch first invented in the book entitled by him 'On the Three Natures'. For he was the first to invent three hypostases and three persons of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and he is discovered to have filched this from Hermes and Plato.

Since Valentinus had used the term hypostases, his name came up in the Arian disputes in the fourth century. Marcellus of Ancyra, who was a staunch opponent of Arianism but also denounced the belief in God existing in three hypostases as heretical and was later condemned for his views, attacking his opponents by linking them to Valentinus:

"Valentinus, the leader of a sect, was the first to devise the notion of three subsistent entities (hypostases), in a work that he entitled On the Three Natures. For, he devised the notion of three subsistent entities and three persons — father, son, and holy spirit."

It should be noted that Nag Hammadi library Sethian text such as Trimorphic Protennoia identify Gnosticism as professing Father, Son and feminine wisdom Sophia or as Professor John D Turner denotes, God the Father, Sophia the Mother, and Logos the Son. Valentinus (also spelled Valentius) (c.100 - c.160) was the best known and for a time most successful early Christian gnostic theologian. He founded his school in Rome. According to Tertullian, Valentinus was a candidate for bishop but started his own group when another was chosen.

Valentinus had a large following, the Valentinians. It later divided into an Eastern and a Western or Italian branch. The Marcosians belonged to the Western branch.

The Melchites at the Nicean Council in 325 AD avowed that the Holy Trinity consisted of "The Father, The Virgin Mary, and the Messiah their Son." (Nimrod, iii. p. 329).

 

[iamaberean]

How does one know truth?

Do you rely on your pastor for truth?

Does a family or friend try to lead you?

Time is major problem with learning, but here are a couple of things that are untruths that has been taught to us.

We should tithe else we are robbing God.
False, It was required in the old testament, not the new. Jesus only spoke to the scribes, the Jews, about tithing.

In Hebrews it speaks of those under to law tithing, not Christians. We give according to our hearts in order to help the Christian poor..

The Pastor is in charge of how we live.
No, the elders of the church has most of the responsibility of teaching.


In the rapture Christians will rise up.
No, the bible says the tares, the wicked, will be burnt and the Christians stay.