Salvation by Being Good

Krsto

Well-known member
I have come to the conclusion that all that is needed for salvation is repentance from wickedness - if a person is wicked. Most are not.

Faith in Jesus was added to the equation to bring people to repentance by demonstrating God's love and providing a graphic visual to the effect that if one repents he will be forgiven, and then to provide power to overcome sin, whether those sins are wickedness which leads to damnation or other sins that so easily beset us.

Salvation in the scriptures is "restoration to wholeness" and a person that is whole (not wicked) will enter eternal life. All sin causes spiritual death in the hear and now to some degree and so all sin causes lack of wholeness to some degree so all people need salvation to some degree, if we understand what the Greek word sozo means.

We don't "earn" salvation by doing good works, but a good person does not need to receive eternal life because he already has it.

This is the verse that has rocked my Evangelical boat:

Lk. 10:25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
26 "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"
27 He answered: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"
28 "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE."
 

Krsto

Well-known member
You are an unregenerate, unrepentant heretic.

I'll take that as a compliment. Thank you! I wear the Heretic badge with honor. Unrepentant? Yes, because I am not wicked so don't need to repent of my wickedness. That's a good thing. Unregenerate? Well, according to John everyone who does what is right is born again so you missed that one. But thanks for playing. Two out of three ain't bad.
 

Truster

New member
I'll take that as a compliment. Thank you! I wear the Heretic badge with honor. Unrepentant? Yes, because I am not wicked so don't need to repent of my wickedness. That's a good thing. Unregenerate? Well, according to John everyone who does what is right is born again so you missed that one. But thanks for playing. Two out of three ain't bad.

You have a superstition and that is all.
 

Krsto

Well-known member
He doesn't save everyone. There are false brethren, false teachers and false witnesses. Based on what you have written I would not call you brother, because the truth is not in you.

No skin off my back. What do you think of the answer Jesus gave regarding how to inherit eternal life? Does that fit into your religious dogma?
 

Truster

New member
No skin off my back. What do you think of the answer Jesus gave regarding how to inherit eternal life? Does that fit into your religious indoctrination?

I've never received any indoctrination. I was atheist until July 17th 1999 at 10:30am at which point in time I was converted. I didn't ask nor want to be saved but I was and I am.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
We don't "earn" salvation by doing good works, but a good person does not need to receive eternal life because he already has it.

A good person? Are you kidding?

Jesus said just the opposite.

"Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, 'Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?'

So Jesus said to him, 'Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.'" (Luke 18:18-19)
 

Krsto

Well-known member
A good person? Are you kidding?

Jesus said just the opposite.

"Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, 'Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?'

So Jesus said to him, 'Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.'" (Luke 18:18-19)

How is this supposed to refute what Jesus said in Lk. 10:25? Obviously, there is "good", as in "as good as God", and there's "good," as in "Good enough for God." What kinda "good" are we talking about here?
 

Krsto

Well-known member
I've never received any indoctrination. I was atheist until July 17th 1999 at 10:30am at which point in time I was converted. I didn't ask nor want to be saved but I was and I am.

You didn't answer my question. Are you just trolling?
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
I have come to the conclusion that all that is needed for salvation is repentance from wickedness - if a person is wicked. Most are not.

Faith in Jesus was added to the equation to bring people to repentance by demonstrating God's love and providing a graphic visual to the effect that if one repents he will be forgiven, and then to provide power to overcome sin, whether those sins are wickedness which leads to damnation or other sins that so easily beset us.

Salvation in the scriptures is "restoration to wholeness" and a person that is whole (not wicked) will enter eternal life. All sin causes spiritual death in the hear and now to some degree and so all sin causes lack of wholeness to some degree so all people need salvation to some degree, if we understand what the Greek word sozo means.

We don't "earn" salvation by doing good works, but a good person does not need to receive eternal life because he already has it.

This is the verse that has rocked my Evangelical boat:

Lk. 10:25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
26 "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"
27 He answered: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"
28 "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE."

Those verses were the answer in the Gospel times, but with the accomplished works of Jesus Christ, the new and better standard is Romans 10:9-10
 

Krsto

Well-known member
Those verses were the answer in the Gospel times, but with the accomplished works of Jesus Christ, the new and better standard is Romans 10:9-10

It's not a different standard, it's a new door into grace so that people can get help with overcoming their sin. The standard of good conduct is still preached in the rest of the New Testament.

Being judged by our conduct and being eternally saved by not being wicked was not altered at the cross but continued to be affirmed in the New Testament as can be seen by:

Peter, who told someone he just needed to repent and made no mention of Christ: "You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray to God, if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven." (Acts 8:21-22)

Peter also said, "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.” (Acts 10:34-35)

James said works are necessary because faith by itself is useless: “Faith, if it has not works, is dead, being alone.” (2:17)

John records what he saw in a vision: “I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.” (Rev. 20:12)

John also said, “The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.” (1 Jn. 1:17)

And then, as if to clarify what John wrote about what Jesus said regarding being born again in the third chapter of John, he says, “Everyone who does what is right has been born of him (God). (1 Jn. 2:29)

Paul informs us the wrath of God is brought on by poor conduct, not lack of faith: “The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness.” (Rom. 1:18)

Paul taught you must prove your repentance by your deeds, not prove your faith by your works: "To the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." (Acts 26:20)

Paul, writing to Christians, explains how Christians will receive eternal life: “For [God] will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life...” (Rom. 2:6-7)

Paul taught us that the heathen who never performed the outward acts of the Jewish Law such as circumcision or keeping the Sabbath would be counted as if they had if they fulfilled the righteous requirements of the Law: “If those who are not circumcised keep the law's requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised?” (Rom. 2:26)

Then Paul adds this doosey: "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Php. 2:12) What? What’s there to work out and be afraid of when you have faith? Did Paul not get the memo that there is nothing to work out for those who have faith?

The writer of Hebrews said their salvation depends on their work and labor of love, not their faith: “But that which bears thorns and briers (evil works) is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labor of love, which you have shewn toward his name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister.” (Heb. 6:8-10)

And finally, the words of Jesus. Have you seen the tract called The Romans Road to Salvation? Here’s the Matthew Road to Salvation:

Many will say to me in that day, “Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? And in your name have cast out devils? And in your name done many wonderful works?” And then will I profess unto them, “I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.” (Mt. 7:22-23)

The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned. (**Mt. *12:35-37)‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬

He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear. (Mt. 13:37-43)

For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. (Mt. 16:27)

Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.” They also will answer, “Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?” He will reply, “I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.” Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. (Mt. 25:41-46)

That’s five times the writer of Matthew quotes Jesus in a way that does damage to the doctrine of salvation by grace. It’s almost as if someone purposefully put all this at the beginning of our New Testaments so we wouldn’t miss the fact God did not overturn his Old Covenant standard of salvation by not doing evil.

And yet, Evangelicals miss that fact.

Not to be outdone by Matthew, the apostle John also quotes Jesus saying the same things:

Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. (Jn. 5:28-29)

Look, I (Jesus) am coming soon, bringing my reward with me to repay all people according to their deeds. (Rev. 22:12)

When Jesus comes back (or came back if you're a Preterist) he's going to be looking for orthopraxy (right living), not orthodoxy (right belief). No one will be judged by what he believes. Everyone will be judged by what he has done. Those who do wicked deeds need to turn from those deeds before it’s too late. It’s as simple as that.
 

Truster

New member
So why do you believe stuff that wasn't invented until hundreds of years later?

I only trust in the revealed will that is found in scripture. I was converted before I read the Bible. I only began to read the scriptures to discover what had happened to me. Once I began to read I couldn't stop and the reading turned to studying and the studying led to correct translation by exegeses.
 

Patrick Cronin

New member
Sin (doing bad things) brought death into the world and created the need for the Saviour. The perfectly just consequence of sin is permanent separation from God (hell). Through God's mercy, Jesus redeemed us by His life, death and Resurrection and so opened for us the possibility of forgiveness and eternal life. Jesus did not remove the need for us to reject our sinfulness, but insisted that we must repent ("unless you repent you will all perish as they did...")(Luke 13:3). Therefore a person receives the salvation won by Jesus by avoiding sin and living a good life. Without choosing to do good, we will not be able to receive the salvation won by Jesus on the Cross. (See Colossians 1:9-11. Colossians 3:5-10. 1 John3:1-10.1 Cor. 5:7-8. 2 Peter 1:10-11. Ephesians 1:4.Galatians 6:9-10. Titus 1:16. 1 Thessalonians 4:1-8. Patrick Cronin.
 

Truster

New member
Sin (doing bad things) brought death into the world and created the need for the Saviour. The perfectly just consequence of sin is permanent separation from God (hell). Through God's mercy, Jesus redeemed us by His life, death and Resurrection and so opened for us the possibility of forgiveness and eternal life. Jesus did not remove the need for us to reject our sinfulness, but insisted that we must repent ("unless you repent you will all perish as they did...")(Luke 13:3). Therefore a person receives the salvation won by Jesus by avoiding sin and living a good life. Without choosing to do good, we will not be able to receive the salvation won by Jesus on the Cross. (See Colossians 1:9-11. Colossians 3:5-10. 1 John3:1-10.1 Cor. 5:7-8. 2 Peter 1:10-11. Ephesians 1:4.Galatians 6:9-10. Titus 1:16. 1 Thessalonians 4:1-8. Patrick Cronin.

The Messiah did not open the possibility for forgiveness. He came into the world to save sinners and He saves everyone that He paid the price for. "Salvation belongs to Yah Veh" and is not reliant upon anything man thinks, says or does.
 
Top