I get a kick out of the way you pick scriptures that condemns yourself.
Calvinism and the word "Predestination"
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
I get a kick out of the way you pick scriptures that condemns yourself.
beloved57
Well-known member
I have no trouble with the Bible. I believe all of it, even the scriptures that you quote. But you don't believe the scriptures that I quote.
beloved57
Well-known member
The scripture you quoted is ok, your comments of them twist them.
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beloved57
Well-known member
Im fine with it. You don't believe it, nor do you believe that sinners Christ tasted death for are saved. Even after Christ tasted death for a sinner you teach that sinner is still lost!
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Then you believe that "Jesus tasted death for EVERYONE" Hebrews 2:9.
beloved57
Well-known member
Yes, for everyone He died for. Now back to you, you dont believe Jesus death alone saved them He died for do you ?
Nanja
Well-known member
Jesus Christ tasted death for every Son Heb. 2:9 chosen in Him before the foundation:
Eph. 1:4-5
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children [sons] by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Heb. 2:10
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Now in contrast, are the sons of the devil:
John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Mat. 13:38-42
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat. 13:43
Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Interesting how you twisted the scripture. It actually reads;
Hebrews 2:9 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Jesus Briefly Humbled
9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.
When it comes to words in the Bible like, Everyone, Whosoever, All, All Men. Calvinist fall down on the floor and roll around and start frothing at the mouth.
It's not "twisting" scripture to read it in its larger context.
It's not "all" or "everyone", for one thing, it's "pas" from the Greek. (This is mostly a repost, but since you missed it before, let's go over it again.) Here is one place that "pas" is used:
1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is a root of (PAS/all kinds) of evil...
The old KJV taught that the “love of money is the root of “all” evil – which, for non-calvinists who chant “all means all”, can make for some sad attempts at explaining why King David committed adultery because he loved money. So do you believe that the love of money is the root of every single evil ever committed?
Acts 2:17 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on (PAS/all flesh); Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. 18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy.
“Pas” is translated here as “all flesh.” But the context of Acts 2 tells us that while Joel's prophesy was fulfilled, the Spirit was only poured out on believers. Male and female, young and old, but only believers, and not every single individual person.
Why do you believe that the Spirit was poured out every single person, believer and unbeliever alike, at Pentecost?
You have to read the bible in context:
Heb2:10-16 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many SONS to glory, to make the captain of THEIR salvation perfect through sufferings. For both He who sanctifies and THOSE WHO ARE BEING SANCTIFIED are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them BRETHREN...“Here am I and the CHILDREN whom God has given Me.”
For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the SEED OF ABRAHAM. (See also: Gal3:29.)
He tasted death for all of His family (sons/brothers), for “those who are being sanctified” and for the children of Abraham (John8:39-56 is another helpful text here). A lot of synonyms for "believers."
You can try to prooftext verses like 1Tim2:6 as meaning “every single person,” but v7 clarifies that Paul is speaking to the Jew/Gentile division that persisted in the early Church.
OTOH, the scriptures teach “Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us…” Gal3:13 He was made a curse for “us” who believe. But to unbelievers He says, “Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” Matt25:41 He was not made a curse for them – He did not take away their sin.
Rom8:32-33He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.
If God’s Son was given up for “us all” then how shall He not also give “us all” all things, including justification. Does the “us all” here – described as God’s “elect” or “chosen” – refer to believers or everyone? Given the logical argument here and your understanding that Jesus was given up for “every single person in the world,” how can God send away those cursed in Matt25 if Jesus was given up for them?
I believe that 1John2:2 is written to the Jewish church in the 1st century - that is the group to whom John was primarily sent (Gal2:9). But if you’ve read the rest of the NT, you may have noticed that the Christian Jews had a lot of trouble accepting that Jesus also came for the Gentiles, which is why John reminds them that Jesus was not only the propitiation for the sins of the Jews but for the Gentile believers as well. And John repeats the same thing in his gospel:
John11:51-52Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad.
Calvinist need to write their own Bible like the Mormons did.
That way they could leave out the words "World" "Everyone" "All" "Whosoever" "All men".
That way they could leave out the words "World" "Everyone" "All" "Whosoever" "All men".