Jesus Christ, the Firstborn of Creation, Who Was First To Be Birthed into Existence

keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
Bright Raven said:
And what does the following scripture mean friend?

Ephesians 1:4 King James Version (KJV)

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
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I only suggest you read Heb 1:3 and tell me what the Express Image is.
Evil.Eye. said:
I would presume you realize what you are implying here. God is Infinite. To suggest that Infinity copied Himself is to suggest that we now have Two Gods. This would be a Binity... and not a BiUnity. To make matters more perplexing is that you dogmatically believe what you say so staunchly that you find it "liberating".

Liberation... Freedom... Are you still under the "Law", according to your belief system? In other words... Per your understanding ... Do you see the "Created" Copy of The Father as a simple revelation that re-iterated the Stone Law?

On this note... Are you aware that this verse (Ex. 33:18) is tied to this verse... (Ex. 33:11) and again to this verse (Ex. 40:34) ... Which ties to this verse ... (Ex. 13:21) ... which is rectified to full revelation here (1 Co. 10:1f, 3f).

It literally reveals that every manifestation of the Father that is seen is Jesus.

Whats the issue here? It is this... the word used in Ex. 33 to describe this "Manifestation" of the Father is... (יְהוָ֤ה).

That, my friend is none other than the very Tetragramaton Himself. (In the Spiritual FLESH) You literally have to intentionally deny scripture in totality to deny this. This is why verses like (Col. 1:15, John 1:18 and John 6:46) are so challenging to you.

You are trying to pound a theological square peg into a non-existent hole.

My last question... What is this? (Rm. 8:9 and Eph. 1:13)

When you say "IT"... why do you depersonalize the "Spirit of Christ"?
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keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
Evil.Eye. said:
I would presume you realize what you are implying here. God is Infinite. To suggest that Infinity copied Himself is to suggest that we now have Two Gods. This would be a Binity... and not a BiUnity. To make matters more perplexing is that you dogmatically believe what you say so staunchly that you find it "liberating".

Liberation... Freedom... Are you still under the "Law", according to your belief system? In other words... Per your understanding ... Do you see the "Created" Copy of The Father as a simple revelation that re-iterated the Stone Law?

On this note... Are you aware that this verse (Ex. 33:18) is tied to this verse... (Ex. 33:11) and again to this verse (Ex. 40:34) ... Which ties to this verse ... (Ex. 13:21) ... which is rectified to full revelation here (1 Co. 10:1f, 3f).

It literally reveals that every manifestation of the Father that is seen is Jesus.

Whats the issue here? It is this... the word used in Ex. 33 to describe this "Manifestation" of the Father is... (יְהוָ֤ה).

That, my friend is none other than the very Tetragramaton Himself. (In the Spiritual FLESH) You literally have to intentionally deny scripture in totality to deny this. This is why verses like (Col. 1:15, John 1:18 and John 6:46) are so challenging to you.

You are trying to pound a theological square peg into a non-existent hole.

My last question... What is this? (Rm. 8:9 and Eph. 1:13)

When you say "IT"... why do you depersonalize the "Spirit of Christ"?
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Early English translations use the term IT when the logos is discussed.

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Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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keypurr said:
Nope, the logos is a FORM of God, not God. The logos is God's first creation. The logos is the spirit son of the most high.

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That is heretical. What does John 1:1 say and stay within the context of the verse? It says the Logos was God. Don't twist it.
 
keypurr

keypurr

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Bright Raven said:
That is heretical. What does John 1:1 say and stay within the context of the verse? It says the Logos was God. Don't twist it.
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Been there with you many times.
You do not understand John's words BR. The logos became flesh, what was the logos before it became flesh? The logos was created by God for it is his express image. It is in effect a created spirit given the fullness of his creator. He is "a" God. Being a form of God does not make it like or as the most high. Christ has a God over him who is greater than ALL.

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Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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keypurr said:
Been there with you many times.
You do not understand John's words BR. The logos became flesh, what was the logos before it became flesh? The logos was created by God for it is his express image. It is in effect a created spirit given the fullness of his creator. He is "a" God. Being a form of God does not make it like or as the most high. Christ has a God over him who is greater than ALL.

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You categorically deny John 1:1 don't you. The Word (Logos) was in the beginning.
 
keypurr

keypurr

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Define beginning.

Creation?

The creation was done through the logos. That proves the logos was the FIRST of all creation/creatures.

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Bright Raven

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keypurr said:
Define beginning.

Creation?

The creation was done through the logos. That proves the logos was the FIRST of all creation/creatures.

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Another heretical statement. You're doing well today. The Creator is not part of the creation. Another serious twisting of the Word.
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
Bright Raven said:
Does not surprise me. You have never accepted Jesus or the scriptures concerning Him;

John 1:1-3 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:14 King James Version (KJV)

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
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Bright Raven said:
You categorically deny John 1:1 don't you. The Word (Logos) was in the beginning.
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Where is it written that, "Jesus is the Logos", or, "the Logos became a man", or, "the Logos is a man"? Those ideas are nothing more than your assumptions. However your assumptions are proven to be incorrect in the very same passage which you imagine supports what you believe, (John 1:14-18), for that very same passage states that no one has seen Elohim at any time, (John 1:18). If no one has seen Elohim at any time then your understanding cannot be correct. Therefore the author of the Gospel of John is not teaching what you and most have assumed.
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
Evil.Eye.<(I)> said:
I would presume you realize what you are implying here. God is Infinite. To suggest that Infinity copied Himself is to suggest that we now have Two Gods. This would be a Binity... and not a BiUnity. To make matters more perplexing is that you dogmatically believe what you say so staunchly that you find it "liberating".

Liberation... Freedom... Are you still under the "Law", according to your belief system? In other words... Per your understanding ... Do you see the "Created" Copy of The Father as a simple revelation that re-iterated the Stone Law?

On this note... Are you aware that this verse (Ex. 33:18) is tied to this verse... (Ex. 33:11) and again to this verse (Ex. 40:34) ... Which ties to this verse ... (Ex. 13:21) ... which is rectified to full revelation here (1 Co. 10:1f, 3f).

It literally reveals that every manifestation of the Father that is seen is Jesus.

Whats the issue here? It is this... the word used in Ex. 33 to describe this "Manifestation" of the Father is... (יְהוָ֤ה).

That, my friend is none other than the very Tetragramaton Himself. (In the Spiritual FLESH) You literally have to intentionally deny scripture in totality to deny this. This is why verses like (Col. 1:15, John 1:18 and John 6:46) are so challenging to you.

You are trying to pound a theological square peg into a non-existent hole.

My last question... What is this? (Rm. 8:9 and Eph. 1:13)

When you say "IT"... why do you depersonalize the "Spirit of Christ"?
Click to expand...

So then, are you also saying that no one has ever seen Jesus at any time? :chuckle:
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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daqq said:
Where is it written that, "Jesus is the Logos", or, "the Logos became a man", or, "the Logos is a man"? Those ideas are nothing more than your assumptions. However your assumptions are proven to be incorrect in the very same passage which you imagine supports what you believe, (John 1:14-18), for that very same passage states that no one has seen Elohim at any time, (John 1:18). If no one has seen Elohim at any time then your understanding cannot be correct. Therefore the author of the Gospel of John is not teaching what you and most have assumed.
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You are about as intelligent as Keypurr so no answer is required. You would not understand anyway. Too deep for you.
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
Bright Raven said:
You are about as intelligent as Keypurr so no answer is required. You would not understand anyway. Too deep for you.
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Perhaps it would be too difficult for you to explain how Jesus is God and yet no one has ever seen God at any time? I actually do not blame you for not wanting to try to explain it. Hey, here is an oldie but a goodie: just call it a mystery hidden within and enigma and force it as a dogma. But then that is already what you are doing, is it not? :)
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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daqq said:
Perhaps it would be too difficult for you to explain how Jesus is God and yet no one has ever seen God at any time? I actually do not blame you for not wanting to try to explain it. Hey, here is an oldie but a goodie: just call it a mystery hidden within and enigma and force it as a dogma. But then that is already what you are doing, is it not? :)
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You are not ready to accept it. If you were, you would not have to ask. It would be as plain as the nose on your face.
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
Bright Raven said:
You are about as intelligent as Keypurr so no answer is required. You would not understand anyway. Too deep for you.
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What if all sides acted as you and yours concerning these things?

"JESUS IS GOD!!!!!!!" :angrymob:
"NO ONE HAS SEEN GOD AT ANY TIME!!!!!!!" :angrymob:

So whoever has nukes and uses them first "wins"? :)
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
Bright Raven said:
At least you typed that Jesus is God. Do you believe it?
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I believe John 1:1 for what is says, "the Logos was Elohim", (and I believe the Logos is Elohim), but you have a serious problem in your doctrine already since you cannot make it past the first eighteen verses of the Gospel of John without a blatant error in your theology:

John 1:1 KJV
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 KJV
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1:14 YLT
14 And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:18 KJV
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 1:18 NASB
18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
 
meshak

meshak

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daqq said:
I believe John 1:1 for what is says, "the Logos was Elohim", (and I believe the Logos is Elohim), but you have a serious problem in your doctrine already since you cannot make it past the first eighteen verses of the Gospel of John without a blatant error in your theology:

John 1:1 KJV
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 KJV
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1:14 YLT
14 And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:18 KJV
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 1:18 NASB
18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
Click to expand...

Excellent,

Unfortunately, these clear statements have been dismissed or disregarded by them.
 
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