Jesus Christ, the Firstborn of Creation, Who Was First To Be Birthed into Existence

keypurr

Well-known member
No it does not, and I just gave you the interlinear links for you to see for yourself. And not only that, in the Genesis account you can also see for yourself that the earth already existed before Jesus Christ began speaking. That is because he did not create "all things". It was the Father who first brought the earth into existence by his power, and then through Jesus Christ he created the world in wisdom. There is a distinction between the "earth" and the "world".

God created all through his logos, not Jesus.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
I do not care how you read Genesis. It is quite obvious from scripture that Jesus is the creator of all things. Show me something that challenges the Colossians passage.

Jesus is a man born to Mary, not the logos. The logos went into him at his anointing.

You just do not get it my friend.
 

Bright Raven

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Jesus is a man born to Mary, not the logos. The logos went into him at his anointing.

You just do not get it my friend.

You have not shown me anything that challenges Colossians 1:16-17

Colossians 1:16-17 King James Version (KJV)

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
You have not shown me anything that challenges Colossians 1:16-17

Colossians 1:16-17 King James Version (KJV)

What happened to verse 15?
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Where does it say this is Jesus?
It doesn't, your adding words and thoughts to the verse.
Jesus had to be a man other wise he could not be the Lamb of God.

The true son of God is a spirit, the express image, the logos.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Hebrews 1:8 and hundreds of other verses throughout God's Word.

It does not say JESUS, it says the son.

Heb 1:3 says the son is a spirit, not a man. The express image of God, a spirit, would be a spirit. In other words the true son is a spirit not a man.

You think this speaks of Jesus.

Go deeper.
 

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
 

Bright Raven

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What happened to verse 15?
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:



Where does it say this is Jesus?
It doesn't, your adding words and thoughts to the verse.
Jesus had to be a man other wise he could not be the Lamb of God.

The true son of God is a spirit, the express image, the logos.

It is a position of preeminence as is verse 18.

I have neither added anything nor taken anything away. It is a straight cut and paste of the King James version. But it is rather obvious that it is Jesus eh? It is only a continuation of what comes before.
 

6days

New member
Keypurr said:
Its not really speaking of just Jesus. Jesus did not exist at the creation, God and the logos did.

Your 'arguments' don't seem logical... nor scriptural. *Jesus in His humanity was born / died / resurrected about 2000 years ago. But scripture is clear Jesus pre-existed (not in human form of course). Jesus... is the mighty God and everlasting Father... and Creator of all.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Proof you have no idea what the logos is. Jesus did not exist until he was born in a Bethlehem. He is a man, the flesh son of the most high. The logos is a spirit, the exact copy of the Father who is a spirit. You fail to see that because it disrupts what you have been taught.

Sent from my A622GL using TOL mobile app
 

Bright Raven

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Proof you have no idea what the logos is. Jesus did not exist until he was born in a Bethlehem. He is a man, the flesh son of the most high. The logos is a spirit, the exact copy of the Father who is a spirit. You fail to see that because it disrupts what you have been taught.

Sent from my A622GL using TOL mobile app

Does not surprise me. You have never accepted Jesus or the scriptures concerning Him;

John 1:1-3 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:14 King James Version (KJV)

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Proof you have no idea what the logos is. Jesus did not exist until he was born in a Bethlehem. He is a man, the flesh son of the most high. The logos is a spirit, the exact copy of the Father who is a spirit. You fail to see that because it disrupts what you have been taught.

Sent from my A622GL using TOL mobile app

I would presume you realize what you are implying here. God is Infinite. To suggest that Infinity copied Himself is to suggest that we now have Two Gods. This would be a Binity... and not a BiUnity. To make matters more perplexing is that you dogmatically believe what you say so staunchly that you find it "liberating".

Liberation... Freedom... Are you still under the "Law", according to your belief system? In other words... Per your understanding ... Do you see the "Created" Copy of The Father as a simple revelation that re-iterated the Stone Law?

On this note... Are you aware that this verse (Ex. 33:18) is tied to this verse... (Ex. 33:11) and again to this verse (Ex. 40:34) ... Which ties to this verse ... (Ex. 13:21) ... which is rectified to full revelation here (1 Co. 10:1f, 3f).

It literally reveals that every manifestation of the Father that is seen is Jesus.

Whats the issue here? It is this... the word used in Ex. 33 to describe this "Manifestation" of the Father is... (יְהוָ֤ה).

That, my friend is none other than the very Tetragramaton Himself. (In the Spiritual FLESH) You literally have to intentionally deny scripture in totality to deny this. This is why verses like (Col. 1:15, John 1:18 and John 6:46) are so challenging to you.

You are trying to pound a theological square peg into a non-existent hole.

My last question... What is this? (Rm. 8:9 and Eph. 1:13)

When you say "IT"... why do you depersonalize the "Spirit of Christ"?
 

Bright Raven

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Proof you have no idea what the logos is. Jesus did not exist until he was born in a Bethlehem. He is a man, the flesh son of the most high. The logos is a spirit, the exact copy of the Father who is a spirit. You fail to see that because it disrupts what you have been taught.

Sent from my A622GL using TOL mobile app

And what does the following scripture mean friend?

Ephesians 1:4 King James Version (KJV)

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
 

keypurr

Well-known member
And what does the following scripture mean friend?

Ephesians 1:4 King James Version (KJV)

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
What does that have to do with the logos? The logos is not a man.

Sent from my A622GL using TOL mobile app
 
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