pacifism for true Jesus' followers.

Rosenritter

New member
It looked like you were trying to make a excuse for the Christian soldiers.

I would seem that your do not tolerate an attempt to fairly address a question from other angles. It shows in some of the other threads (such as when you shut down a conversation by refusing to talk or answer questions, and label me as "Trinity.")

But in case you haven't noticed, I happen to be almost completely "on your side" in this particular discussion, yet you started arguing against me merely for posting the scriptures that I suspect JR is thinking of. Don't you want us to have a chance to address these scriptures too?
 

Rosenritter

New member
You reject His words.

Jesus said to go buy a sword.

You said His followers shouldn't be armed.

OK, so if you want to take that literally where is your sword? I bought one and I keep it in a sock drawer. Not because I interpret that statement literally, mind you, but because I thought it a nice reference for the symbolic meaning. But since you are saying this is a literal statement, where is your sword?
 

Rosenritter

New member
That's right, you DON'T know.

Because you're so caught up in your own beliefs.

Now you're moving the goalposts.

You had said Jesus' followers shouldn't carry weapons.

I showed you to be wrong, and now you're backpedaling, first saying that they're not for killing, and now saying that Jesus didn't let them use them to harm anyone, when one of Jesus' disciples cut off a soldier's ear!

And Jesus praised Peter for THAT action, didn't he? He stepped right up with his sword for a follow-up combo, right?
 

meshak

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Two swords for twelve disciples? Why was this either sufficient or more than enough? Each warrior needs at least one sword and sometimes two (assuming no shield or spear.)

So if he was equipping them for war, why did he say that they had enough swords? One was for Peter, obviously, to chop the ear off of the high priests servant, but who was the other sword for? Or perhaps he said "it is enough" because they had taken his metaphorical statement literally as they did when he said to "beware the leaven of the Pharisees."


Exactly.

that's the contextual reasoning and it is so hard to see.

I have refuted all they brought up, yet they keep repeat the same inexcusable attacks.

I appreciate you taken after me.

there is absolutely none for them to find the loopholes.
 

meshak

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Don't you want us to have a chance to address these scriptures too?

Take a look at this thread. They have been coming after me with the same kind of lame childish attacks.

I will not feed their malice attacks. And it seems you are trying to give them chance to continue in on their cowardly behavior.

that's not my style.

besides, JR has been agreeing with you, and all of a sudden she changed her attitude and became defender of Christians in the military.

She never was for my position in this regard. What do you make of that?
 

meshak

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@Rosen,

I gave the very similar refutation about the two swards about Jesus' said that is enough, too.

Jesus did not permit Peter to attack their enemy and rebuked him by stopped him. And heeled their enemy.
 

JudgeRightly

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besides, JR has been agreeing with you, and all of a sudden she changed her attitude and became defender of Christians in the military.

She never was for my position in this regard. What do you make of that?

I'm a guy, thank you very much.
 

Dartman

Active member
To justify the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki on the grounds that it stopped a belligerent state from committing more atrocities is to justify every act of terrorism that has ever been committed against the citizens of a violent state. You cannot simultaneously argue that killing Japanese civilians was justified because it got the Japanese government to end its belligerence, and also argue that terrorist acts against American citizens — committed by those who wish to end US aggression against their countries — is wrong. If the devastation wreaked upon Hiroshima and Nagasaki (as well as a multitude of other Japanese cities) are not war crimes, then there is no such thing as a war crime.

Thank you Bretigne Shaffer
God uses ALL nations to facilitate His plan.

Dan 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever He will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

Our Creator's intent is to live on the perfected earth, with His sons and daughters. He created paradise in the beginning, and provided food, and the tree of life to Adam and Eve ..... until they disobeyed. Jehovah/YHVH God cursed Satan, who had tempted them, both Adam and Eve .... and the earth. From that day on humans were barred from entering Eden, which certainly didn't survive the Flood. We are left with a cursed planet, and the harsh reality of mortality.
However, Jehovah/YHVH God has offered HOPE!
RESURRECTION from death, BACK to life .... and that life is eternal, on the renewed earth, with our God, and His son.
But, that is more than 1,000 years in the future.
Jesus must return to this planet, conquer EVERY nation, set up a Kingdom for his God, and begin reigning as the King of the earth, and the High Priest mediating between his God and the people, for 1,000 years.
THEN the great judgment! Which will result in the utter destruction of ALL of the wicked throughout time, including those who were wicked during the 1,000 years, and rewarding those that were counted as righteous during the 1,000 years.

The point of this is, God's plan does NOT expect ANY temporal nation to be "righteous"... and, God uses those nations as He sees fit.
Sometimes God uses the nations to punish His people, like Israel has been punished for almost 2,000 years now!
Sometimes God uses the nations to PROTECT His people, like the destruction of the Nazis, or Imperial Japan, or Saddam Hussein, or any other totally evil empire, that threatened His people.

Life isn't fair ....... yet.
God expects us to have faith that it WILL be fair. So MUCH faith, in fact, that we will sacrifice this mortal life, in faith that He will provide a better one.
The New Testament commands non-violence for Christians..... it does NOT state that the worldly nations will repent/convert from their violent ways, until Jesus teaches them to destroy their weapons, turn them into useful tools, and never "learn war".
Does that mean that Christians are at risk from the violent around them? Absolutely. Perhaps even lose their life, and the lives of their loved ones.

But, that's not the end of Hope.

Dan 12:2-3 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.
 

Rosenritter

New member
Take a look at this thread. They have been coming after me with the same kind of lame childish attacks.

I will not feed their malice attacks. And it seems you are trying to give them chance to continue in on their cowardly behavior.

that's not my style.

besides, JR has been agreeing with you, and all of a sudden she changed her attitude and became defender of Christians in the military.

She never was for my position in this regard. What do you make of that?

JR has always stated that he supported Christians in military. He may agree with me for other reasons or appreciate what I said on other points but I don't think he is being inconsistent.

But do you really think that attempting to demonstrate that you fairly see the other person's side is "feeding cowardly behavior?" If you act unreasonable people are going to think you are unreasonable, and then don't wonder why attacks become personal when you no longer fairly consider the subject matter.
 

meshak

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JR has always stated that he supported Christians in military. He may agree with me for other reasons or appreciate what I said on other points but I don't think he is being inconsistent.

But do you really think that attempting to demonstrate that you fairly see the other person's side is "feeding cowardly behavior?" If you act unreasonable people are going to think you are unreasonable, and then don't wonder why attacks become personal when you no longer fairly consider the subject matter.

He has never commented in this thread yet all of a sudden appeared and agreeing with all you say yet as soon as I addressed his stance, he became vicious with nasty comment with help of other of my enemies.

Look at the counter posts of him against and making personal attacks.

You don't see anything malicious in his behavior?
 

meshak

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Red herring.

Meshak, WHY DO YOU REJECT CHRIST'S WORDS!

And He said to them, [JESUS]“When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?”[/JESUS] So they said, “Nothing.”Then He said to them, [JESUS]“But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’ For the things concerning Me have an end.”[/JESUS]So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, [JESUS]“It is enough.”[/JESUS] - Luke 22:35-38 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke22:35-38&version=NKJV
[MENTION=18255]Rosenritter[/MENTION]. Unsubstantiated accusation. (5)
 

meshak

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That's right, you DON'T know.

Because you're so caught up in your own beliefs.



Now you're moving the goalposts.

You had said Jesus' followers shouldn't carry weapons.

I showed you to be wrong, and now you're backpedaling, first saying that they're not for killing, and now saying that Jesus didn't let them use them to harm anyone, when one of Jesus' disciples cut off a soldier's ear!

You're twisting yourself into knots trying to evade what JESUS said.

STOP RESISTING JESUS' WORDS!



No, Meshak, you're not getting out of this that easily.

Why do you reject Jesus' words?!
[MENTION=18255]Rosenritter[/MENTION],

another unsubstantiated accusation. (6)
 
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