Rosenritter
New member
I see, he must have been a coward with darkness within him unaware of the true gospel of military liberation. Insert appropriate mocking and sarcasm here. Do you figure Paul was was German?
pacifism for true Jesus' followers.
- Thread starter meshak
- Start date
I see, he must have been a coward with darkness within him unaware of the true gospel of military liberation. Insert appropriate mocking and sarcasm here. Do you figure Paul was was German?
Rosenritter
New member
It's rare to hear such insight from Martians. How do you think that Trinity belief influences one's interpretation of the gospel in this regards?
Rosenritter
New member
Of course. I was actually just looking for the admission that the USA is unique in that aspect. It might be useful later. Carry on.
They had to be bombed with Atomic force because they "didn't know when to quit?" The Japanese had been pleading for surrender through every channel, including an appeal to the Vatican in hope that maybe that would work. Evidence isn't hard to find:
https://www.thenation.com/article/why-the-us-really-bombed-hiroshima/
"The record is quite clear: From the perspective of an overwhelming number of key contemporary leaders in the US military, the dropping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was not a matter of military necessity. American intelligence had broken the Japanese codes, knew the Japanese government was trying to negotiate surrender through Moscow, and had long advised that the expected early August Russian declaration of war, along with assurances that Japan’s Emperor would be allowed to stay as a powerless figurehead, would bring surrender long before the first step in a November US invasion, three months later, could begin."[FONT="]
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That may not jive well with the "Holier than Thou Red White and Blue" theme you've got going, but no, the atomic bomb was not because Japan "didn't know when to quit." It was an attack on civilian targets of a country that was already asking for surrender.
https://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n3p-4_Weber.html
"[FONT="]In April and May 1945, Japan made three attempts through neutral Sweden and Portugal to bring the war to a peaceful end. On April 7, acting Foreign Minister Mamoru Shigemitsu met with Swedish ambassador Widon Bagge in Tokyo, asking him "to ascertain what peace terms the United States and Britain had in mind." But he emphasized that unconditional surrender was unacceptable, and that "the Emperor must not be touched." Bagge relayed the message to the United States, but Secretary of State Stettinius told the US Ambassador in Sweden to "show no interest or take any initiative in pursuit of the matter." Similar Japanese peace signals through Portugal, on May 7, and again through Sweden, on the 10th, proved similarly fruitless.[/FONT][FONT="]By mid-June, six members of Japan's Supreme War Council had secretly charged Foreign Minister Shigenori Togo with the task of approaching Soviet Russia's leaders "with a view to terminating the war if possible by September." On June 22 the Emperor called a meeting of the Supreme War Council, which included the Prime Minister, the Foreign Minister, and the leading military figures. "We have heard enough of this determination of yours to fight to the last soldiers," said Emperor Hirohito. "We wish that you, leaders of Japan, will strive now to study the ways and the means to conclude the war. In doing so, try not to be bound by the decisions you have made in the past."[/FONT]
[FONT="]By early July the US had intercepted messages from Togo to the Japanese ambassador in Moscow, Naotake Sato, showing that the Emperor himself was taking a personal hand in the peace effort, and had directed that the Soviet Union be asked to help end the war. US officials also knew that the key obstacle to ending the war was American insistence on "unconditional surrender," a demand that precluded any negotiations. The Japanese were willing to accept nearly everything, except turning over their semi-divine Emperor. Heir of a 2,600-year-old dynasty, Hirohito was regarded by his people as a "living god" who personified the nation. (Until the August 15 radio broadcast of his surrender announcement, the Japanese people had never heard his voice.) Japanese particularly feared that the Americans would humiliate the Emperor, and even execute him as a war criminal."
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I don't know what bible you're referring to, but in the one I have Jesus says that "the Kingdom of God is within you" (Luke 17:21) but with respect to the King of that Kingdom being in their midst, not "the Kingdom of God is inside you" (source: Amiel misquote). Jesus also shortly thereafter told them a parable to dispel the notion that the kingdom should immediately appear. The nobleman goes away into a far country, and establishes the kingdom upon his return. See Luke 19:11-27.
Wow, you'd be an awesome leader just like Trump, and your Christian sensibility would use military force just like he does...
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So you've been there? Please tell us what you saw.[/FONT][/FONT]
Rosenritter
New member
So it is normal to ignore requests for surrender through official channels in the middle of a war that one supposedly wishes to be over?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
when they come from people without the authority or ability to stop the fighting, yes
Why do you think he is advocating to kill your enemy?
He is not saying that at all.
Your logic is so strange, both of you.
Rosenritter
New member
But in this case those with the authority to stop the fighting were the ones that had a nuclear weapon that needed testing.
Rosenritter
New member
Is there more than one person posting from your account? Where did I interpret either of those passages in regards to killing enemies?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
and it worked! :banana:
didn't kill as many japs as the tokyo firebombings, but still, a great success! :thumb:
Rosenritter
New member
Yes, that nation did great wonders, and made fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. The only nation on earth with that distinction to date. Then in it corrected its failed attempt to make the League of Nations to form the United Nations. A sure success.
Revelation 13:12-14 KJV
(12) And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
(13) And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
(14) And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
no, other nations engaged in firebombing of military targets and civilian centers, especially in ww2
this was vietnam:
Rosenritter
New member
Your point? That's not a fire, that's a petty spark. We're talking real fire, not tossing a torch up in the air or a Molotov cocktail or Greek fire from a catapult. Plenty of countries have fought using fire, more than one country has done their own secret or isolated tests, but there is only one power (a superpower) that makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, of a type that is worthy of biblical mention.
Rosenritter
New member
The question is what you are talking about. I asked a direct question: "Where did I interpret either of those passages in regards to killing enemies?" I only posted two passages of scripture. Are you saying those two passages of scripture tell us that we should kill our enemies?
drbrumley
Well-known member
To justify the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki on the grounds that it stopped a belligerent state from committing more atrocities is to justify every act of terrorism that has ever been committed against the citizens of a violent state. You cannot simultaneously argue that killing Japanese civilians was justified because it got the Japanese government to end its belligerence, and also argue that terrorist acts against American citizens — committed by those who wish to end US aggression against their countries — is wrong. If the devastation wreaked upon Hiroshima and Nagasaki (as well as a multitude of other Japanese cities) are not war crimes, then there is no such thing as a war crime.
Thank you Bretigne Shaffer
Thank you Bretigne Shaffer
Rosenritter
New member
I think that their point is that it's not a war crime if your side is the side that wins.
drbrumley
Well-known member
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
fat man and little boy didn't come down from heaven, they were dropped from airplanes
and regardless of their tech, they were nothing more than big bombs - in fact, we have bigger non-nuke bombs in our arsenal right now
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
i justify them on the basis that american lives were saved