Well it could be you or anyone. As for whose law hopefully laws are not made that are unlawful. So, God's Law.
pacifism for true Jesus' followers.
- Thread starter meshak
- Start date
Well it could be you or anyone. As for whose law hopefully laws are not made that are unlawful. So, God's Law.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Do you really have that little understanding; such that you believe that a Christian is supposed to just allow evil to flourish by not doing anything about it? How are you going to arrest someone who's armed if you don't arrest them without being armed? How can you prevent another holocaust or a fourth Reich? With your shallow thought-processes, the whole earth would be speaking German and saluting a national flag with a Nazi cross on it. The Lord doesn't want us to ignore evil, He wants us to do our best to keep it from taking over the world.
The war will exist in the world.
Jesus says let the dead bury their onw dead.
I know you will not accept Jesus' teaching about not to do anything with any violence.
If you don't accept it, it is your prerogative.
Have you ever thought that German Christians were Nazi?
Your logic is so convoluted.
Taking things out of context is sure to lead you astray. Oh wait, you're already way off the narrow path.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Yes, Jesus said that we would always have war and rumors of war. He also told us we are to buy a sword (today, He would say to buy a gun).
Another verse which you don't understand, obviously. Jesus meant that those whose faith is dead should be left to their dead faith. We preach The Gospel to them, but we aren't to take part in their un-belief or lack of faith.
Is that your faith talking? Seems that you always have faith in the wrong thing. Love believes all things. Love doesn't poke fun at someone's faith. I understand what Jesus said about turning the other cheek, but He also told us to buy a gun. I want to fully obey Him, not pick and choose what words He said that I want to believe and ignore the rest.
I imagine that there were more than a few German soldiers who were Christian. That doesn't mean that we should ignore their invasion of other countries and murder of innocent Jewish citizens. God created the USA to not only be the police force for this earth but to bring His Gospel to all the world. We've done a pretty good job so far, but still have a long way to go
Thank you; I've been practicing.
You admit your understanding is convoluted.
so I am not interested to conversing with you.
good day.
Rosenritter
New member
If you read ahead to the end of the book, you'll see how God plans to remove evil from the world. It isn't through Christians taking up arms.
Aimiel
Well-known member
If you have any sense at all WHILE reading God's Holy Word: you realize Truths from Him that give guidelines for life, like protecting one's family, friends and neighbors including (though not limited to) taking up arms against enemies of life, liberty and even the pursuit of happiness. Should our Democratic representatives continue the current trend of attacking America's freedoms you just may see an armed uprising of unprecedented proportions. If you're not smart enough to take up arms against tyranny then you just don't deserve the freedoms paid for in blood.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Your lack of interest in Truth is duly noted.
It was a joke, but I'm guessing that you haven't enough sense to know what is funny and what isn't; mostly due to a lack of common sense (obviously).
Jesus teaching does not apply to world's common-sense or value system.
Rosenritter
New member
So you are going to "take up arms against tyranny" to trade one tyrant for another, to choose one power that serves the god of this world for a different power that serves the god of this world? And in so doing, you are willing to take the lives of others (Christian and non-Christian) who might be fighting your tyrant or upholding the lawfully ordained civil government?
If you have a heart or spirit these are serious questions that deserve consideration, not cocky flag-waving red-white-and-blue poster propaganda.
Aimiel
Well-known member
His Words apply to everything. Common sense also ALWAYS applies. If we walk off of a cliff, we might die. If we don't use common sense: we end up believing foolishness and that becomes obvious to everyone except the fool who ignores common sense. :aimiel:
Aimiel
Well-known member
Yes, I am more than ready to take up my arms to fight tyranny in any form. The one who is in power is ordained by God. Those who take power and abuse it deserve to be put down by whatever means necessary. Diplomacy is best but violence isn't to be taken off the table just because you're Casper Milketoast. I'm not being cocky or saying what I think will make any certain impression on anyone other than what I believe. I believe that any ruler ought to obey God and where they don't we need to curb their lack of guidance to preserve our freedom and even our very lives. Every soul on this earth is deceived, to a certain extent, whether they ever realize it or not; but we don't need to sit by and watch our elected fools erode our rights like what happened in Venezuela. We need to stand for what's right and good, not allow fools to make us into their slaves. If you have a heart and spirit you realize these things are true and necessary.
:aimiel: :sam:
Rosenritter
New member
1. You are ready to take up arms to fight tyranny in any form.
2. But you acknowledge that those tyrannical governments are ordained of God.
Therefore, you are ready to take up arms to fight against God-ordained tyrannical governments. Do you realize what that implies?
You believe that any ruler ought to obey God.
Those that do not obey God you (say) that you need to curb their lack of guidance.
But no rulers on this earth obey God, thus you have all the justification to rebel against any and every God-ordained government.
Have you been ordained by God to overthrow governments, and to judge between the righteous and the wicked with force of arms? All of the governments on this world are God-ordained (by your own admission) regardless of whether the rulers are righteous or wicked. If you are fighting against the governments that God ordains, where does that place you?
That's even aside from the method of fighting you are talking about is literal and involves taking human lives.
Aimiel
Well-known member
This makes as much sense as most of your other posts: NONE.
You don't know Jesus.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Nope. God doesn't commit sin, neither does He endorse those who commit sin.
Yes, that we are to lay down our lives to fight for the liberties and rights of our selves, neighbors and even those of our enemies; since ignorance and pacifism erode both, daily.
As should everyone.
If it threatens people's liberties or rights: yes.
Your reasoning is flawed by the simple fact that those you've grouped as being did-obedient are on God's side. Jesus said that those who aren't against Him are for Him. For example: those in the Democratic party (for the most part) are against God while most Republicans don't oppose Him at all.
Everyone was, when Jesus told us to judge righteously.
Right smack-dab in the middle of the controversy that God designed to bring such arguments up so that we'd be aware of them and do something about them. Jesus didn't come to bring peace but a sword. He wants the fire that will cleanse this earth to be lit. You're lukewarm. You're one of the ones that He's going to spit out.
Yup, but ONLY when necessary. Do you think that Hitler should have been allowed to become earth's first king?
Rosenritter
New member
Wow, God, Guns, and Marines, Huzzah, Go Republicans. Kill in the name of the Jesus. Is that the size of it?
So let me distill your clarifications as I understand them:
1. You ARE ready to take up arms to oppose tyranny in any form,
2. but God has not ordained those tyrannical governments (your correction noted here, "God does not endorse those who commit sin")
3. Rulers that do not obey God need to be curbed with force if need be, by Christians (because they threaten rights and liberties)
4. All Christians have been ordained by God to overthrow governments, if they judge that they should do so (there is no need for a declaration of war from a Pope or bishop or for a sign from heaven)
5. You are privileged to take human life as you deem necessary in engagement of these methods.
Did I get all of those right? I merged the original statement I had made with your corrections.
So let me jump ahead one more step with a question based on those:
Romans 13:1-2 KJV
(1) Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
(2) Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Are not tyrannical governments considered "powers that be?" For example, the Roman government was certainly tyrannical and not Godly at all. They burnt Christians as candles and fed them to lions. Yet Paul speaks of the powers that be are ordained of God to the Romans of the Roman empire of which he himself is a Roman citizen.
Why does he not say that the Christians are ordained of Christ to overthrow the government tyranny that threatens people's lives and liberties?
* So that bit that Jesus said on the sermon on the mount, "the meek shall inherit the earth..." he really meant "the warriors shall inherit the earth?" I somehow missed the part where he told us to take up literal swords to kill people on the earth. I thought I saw him say the opposite. Can you point that out to me?
* Do you think that God needs his little flock to pick up arms to direct the powers and governments of the world (such as Caesar, Hitler, Stalin, Mao) as he wills?
* Is God is powerless to direct legions of angels at his command or to even command them to be consumed of worms if that was what he wanted?
* If Hitler became world king for a generation, does that stop the gospel of God and prevent his return as King of Kings in his time?