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oatmeal
Well-known member
Jesus Christ gave him the keys.
Wonderful!
What is the kingdom of heaven?
Why is "kingdom of heaven" used only in Matthew?
Not Mark nor Luke nor John nor any other book in the Bible.
Are those literal keys that Peter hung on a key chain?
Who was the king in the kingdom of heaven?
Who is the head of the body of Christ?
What ministries did Christ give to the church?
Why are those ministries given to the church?
What are their roles?
Since those ministries are in charge, Romans 13, why should we honor any secular or religion organization who does not believe in those ministries?
Romans 13 is about the ministries that God in Christ set up in the body of Christ.
to answer your questions
oatmeal
Well-known member
That is right. and they have. However,the RCC as do many other denominations, do not believe apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers have any place in the church any more.
Therefore they miss out on the benefits of their God given ministries.
I don't see how you can say that
Let me guess...you are a teacher and sometimes a prophetess.
God's Truth
New member
Revelation 3:12
The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.
1 Peter 2:5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
(Revelation 3:12 shows that Jesus is the New Jerusalem, and we are parts of New Jerusalem, just as we are parts of the body of Christ; and that the New Jerusalem is a temple of God...that Jesus is the temple of God.)
Its clear to those who can see
Right Divider
Body part
I see the truth. Apparently you do not.
What is an RCC?
In this forum you will often see the acronym RCC tossed about. Sometimes it is done in innocence, but very often it is done out of malice by people who know better.
The Catholic Church is the "Catholic Church", not the Roman Catholic Church. Within the Catholic Church, there are many "Rites": The Maronite Rite, the Syriac Rite, the Chaldean Rite, the Byzantine Rite, and many many other "Rites" or Churches, and also included is the Latin Rite, or "Roman" rite if you will. The Roman Catholic Church is a part of the Catholic Church, but that is all.
What all these Churches - or "Rites" - have in common is doctrine, and submission to the Pope as the Successor of Peter and earthly head of the Church. Not all Catholics are "Latin Rite" Catholics though, and some Catholics can find it rather offensive when the Church is continually referred to as the RCC.
Now in America, its true that most Catholics are Latin Rite (Roman Catholic) but many are not. But if you go to some other countries you'll find that most Catholics are NOT Roman Catholics.
What does this say:
It says "Catechism of the Catholic Church". It does not say "Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church". That is an important point to remember.
Quote:
A Rite represents an ecclesiastical, or church, tradition about how the sacraments are to be celebrated. Each of the sacraments has at its core an essential nature which must be satisfied for the sacrament to be confected or realized. This essence – of matter, form and intention – derives from the divinely revealed nature of the particular sacrament. It cannot be changed by the Church. Scripture and Sacred Tradition, as interpreted by the Magisterium, tells us what is essential in each of the sacraments (2 Thes. 2:15).
When the apostles brought the Gospel to the major cultural centers of their day the essential elements of religious practice were inculturated into those cultures. This means that the essential elements were clothed in the symbols and trappings of the particular people, so that the rituals conveyed the desired spiritual meaning to that culture. In this way the Church becomes all things to all men that some might be saved (1 Cor. 9:22).
There are three major groupings of Rites based on this initial transmission of the faith, the Roman, the Antiochian (Syria) and the Alexandrian (Egypt). Later on the Byzantine derived as a major Rite from the Antiochian, under the influence of St. Basil and St. John Chrysostom. From these four derive the over 20 liturgical Rites present in the Church today.
source: Catholic Rites and Churches
Personally, I would appreciate it if peopler referred to me as a Catholic, and my Church as the Catholic Church. It would be the respectful thing to do since nobody here really know what Rite me or other Catholics here actually are.
Right Divider
Body part
God's Truth
New member
Jesus has the keys; and he gave his disciples the power to bind and loose.
Jesus is in charge.
You are correct someone must be in charge. Jesus is in charge. Jesus has the keys. Jesus has the power to bind and lose. The church is everyone who has repented and accepted Jesus and is His church and the church belongs to Jesus. His church are the repented believers.
Peter was a man .... sinful ... just like all men (mankind). Gods church can not be built on a sinful man.
Jesus was without sin ... God incarnate. The church built on Jesus who was without sin and He is our rock.
The Rock
Psalm 18:2
2The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.
Jesus holds the Keys
Revelation 1
17When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, 18and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.
The church - Jesus is the head of the church.
Psalm 118:22
The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief corner stone.
Ephesians 1:22
And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church,
Ephesians 4:12
for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;
Ephesians 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.
1 Corinthians 11:3
But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.
Colossians 1:18
He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
Colossians 2:10
and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;
Peter was a man .... sinful ... just like all men (mankind). Gods church can not be built on a sinful man.
Jesus was without sin ... God incarnate. The church built on Jesus who was without sin and He is our rock.
The Rock
Psalm 18:2
2The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.
Jesus holds the Keys
Revelation 1
17When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, 18and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.
The church - Jesus is the head of the church.
Psalm 118:22
The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief corner stone.
Ephesians 1:22
And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church,
Ephesians 4:12
for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;
Ephesians 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.
1 Corinthians 11:3
But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.
Colossians 1:18
He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
Colossians 2:10
and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;
...and Jesus placed Peter in charge, or are you saying Jesus does not have the authority to do that.
...and Peter placed Linus in charge, and....etc etc
God's Truth
New member
Jesus sent his apostles in the same way he was sent, and he gave them the knowledge of the truth. They had the power to bind and loose. Jesus is the one in charge.
John 17:18
As You sent Me into the world, I have also sent them into the world.
John 20:21 Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you."
Acts 1:2
until the day He was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles He had chosen.
God's Truth
New member
Matthew 18
A Brother who Sins
(Deuteronomy 19:15-21)
15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. 18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Jesus Appears to His Disciples
John 20:19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
You need to get it out of your head that Peter was the only one.
A Brother who Sins
(Deuteronomy 19:15-21)
15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. 18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Jesus Appears to His Disciples
John 20:19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
You need to get it out of your head that Peter was the only one.
God's Truth
New member
The Bible forbids favoritism over the Apostles.
Read these scriptures, you will see that Paul even mentions Peter, otherwise known as Simon, and says not to say I follow Simon/Peter as if it means something special.
1 Corinthians 1:11-12 My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ." 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?
1 Corinthians 3:1Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men? 4For when one says, "I follow Paul," and another, "I follow Apollos," are you not mere men?
5What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. 7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 9For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.
1 Corinthians 3:18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness“; 20and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.” 21So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours, 22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.
1 Corinthians 4:6 Now brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.
Well that is obviously a bald faced lie. You pervert the scriptures to suit your agenda
There is ample evidence in the New Testament that Peter was first in authority among the apostles. Whenever they were named, Peter headed the list (Matt. 10:1-4, Mark 3:16-19, Luke 6:14-16, Acts 1:13); sometimes the apostles were referred to as "Peter and those who were with him" (Luke 9:32). Peter was the one who generally spoke for the apostles (Matt. 18:21, Mark 8:29, Luke 12:41, John 6:68-69), and he figured in many of the most dramatic scenes (Matt. 14:28-32, Matt. 17:24-27, Mark 10:23-28). On Pentecost it was Peter who first preached to the crowds (Acts 2:14-40), and he worked the first healing in the Church age (Acts 3:6-7). It is Peter’s faith that will strengthen his brethren (Luke 22:32) and Peter is given Christ’s flock to shepherd (John 21:17). An angel was sent to announce the resurrection to Peter (Mark 16:7), and the risen Christ first appeared to Peter (Luke 24:34). He headed the meeting that elected Matthias to replace Judas (Acts 1:13-26), and he received the first converts (Acts 2:41). He inflicted the first punishment (Acts 5:1-11), and excommunicated the first heretic (Acts 8:18-23). He led the first council in Jerusalem (Acts 15), and announced the first dogmatic decision (Acts 15:7-11). It was to Peter that the revelation came that Gentiles were to be baptized and accepted as Christians (Acts 10:46-48).
Peter the Rock
Peter’s preeminent position among the apostles was symbolized at the very beginning of his relationship with Christ. At their first meeting, Christ told Simon that his name would thereafter be Peter, which translates as "Rock" (John 1:42). The startling thing was that—aside from the single time that Abraham is called a "rock" (Hebrew: Tsur; Aramaic: Kepha) in Isaiah 51:1-2—in the Old Testament only God was called a rock. The word rock was not used as a proper name in the ancient world. If you were to turn to a companion and say, "From now on your name is Asparagus," people would wonder: Why Asparagus? What is the meaning of it? What does it signify? Indeed, why call Simon the fisherman "Rock"? Christ was not given to meaningless gestures, and neither were the Jews as a whole when it came to names. Giving a new name meant that the status of the person was changed, as when Abram’s name was changed to Abraham (Gen.17:5), Jacob’s to Israel (Gen. 32:28), Eliakim’s to Joakim (2 Kgs. 23:34), or the names of the four Hebrew youths—Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah to Belteshazzar, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego (Dan. 1:6-7). But no Jew had ever been called "Rock." The Jews would give other names taken from nature, such as Deborah ("bee," Gen. 35:8), and Rachel ("ewe," Gen. 29:16), but never "Rock." In the New Testament James and John were nicknamed Boanerges, meaning "Sons of Thunder," by Christ, but that was never regularly used in place of their original names, and it certainly was not given as a new name. But in the case of Simon-bar-Jonah, his new name Kephas (Greek: Petros) definitely replaced the old.
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God's Truth
New member
The scriptures are clear about favoritism forbidden.
It was Peter's faith that failed and had to be reinstated.
I am not putting down Peter, I am just correcting your error.
Just like you were told not to do, but you do it anyway.
The 'rock' is about Jesus, God's Truth. Peter had a little of it, and it was on God's Truth that Jesus would build his church.
Peter did not go to hell where the gates there could not keep him; and, it is not the catholic church.
Jesus is the church, and Jesus went to hell after dying on the cross, and the gates of hell could not keep him there.
Matthew 16:13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” 14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
After Jesus was crucified, he preached to those who were dead, he preached to the spirits in prison/hell, the spirits of those who had died and disobeyed long ago (see 1 Peter 3:18-19).
The gates of Hell could not keep Jesus there. It is only Jesus' body who did not see decay; not the many dead "Saints" the catholic popes dig up and claim those decayed bodies are not what they seem.
Psalm 26:10 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, nor will you let your faithful one see decay.
That is only about Jesus. That is not about Peter or anyone but Jesus.
Acts 13:35
So also, He says in another Psalm: 'You will not let your Holy One see decay.'
Psalm 49:9
That he should live on eternally, That he should not undergo decay.
Colossians 1:24
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions for the sake of His body, which is the church.
Ephesians 1:22 And God put everything under His feet and made Him head over everything for the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
Ephesians 5:30
For we are members of His body.
....snore....