7djengo7
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Look how easily that little gem can be reversed upon you:
"[Anti-Trinitarianism] would not be debated if there was [sic] no problems with it."
The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
Look how easily that little gem can be reversed upon you:
"[Anti-Trinitarianism] would not be debated if there was [sic] no problems with it."
7djengo7
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Only a fool will, out of one side of his/her mouth, say that Scripture contradicts Scripture (as you claim it does), and then, out of the other side of his/her mouth, say "I am pro-scripture". When you say "I am pro-scripture", you are a liar.
Actually it isn't even a hard challenge!!
Jesus was born in Bethlehem. Bethlehem is where Jehovah proclaimed that Jesus would "come forth unto me". Jesus didn't come forth, even for Jehovah, until Bethlehem.
Jesus sent the apostles "into the world" JUST LIKE he was sent "into the world";
John 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
Jesus tells us WHEN he was "sent" by his God;
Luke 4:18-21 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
This happened right after Jesus was Baptized, Anointed with God's spirit, tempted by Satan, and then returned to Nazareth.
John 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights,
7djengo7
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What (if anything) does Nimrod have to do with the Trinity? You anti-Trinitarians go around claiming that the Trinity is not even in the Bible, yet, you bring up Nimrod, and say that he had something to do with the Trinity.
Another thing that's not in the Bible: your phrase, "False God". Also, the phrase "false god" (lower case initials) is not in the Bible. So, what (if anything) do you mean by your phrase, "False God", and why do you capitalize its initials? And, to whom, or to what, would you apply your phrase, "False God", and why would you so apply it?
Would you apply your phrase, "False God", to Jesus? Why/Why not?
Would you apply your phrase, "False God", to the Holy Spirit? Why/Why not?
Would you apply your phrase, "False God", to Nimrod? Why/Why not?
7djengo7
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What you wrote, here:
has nothing to do with your earlier claim:
Again, what you wrote, here:
has nothing to do with what you wrote, here:
And, again, what you wrote, here:
has ZERO relevance to your earlier claim:
WHAT "happened right after Jesus was Baptized, etc."? "Jesus, and ALL of God's prophets came down from heaven"?
Who do you think you are fooling?
has nothing to do with your earlier claim:
Again, what you wrote, here:
has nothing to do with what you wrote, here:
And, again, what you wrote, here:
has ZERO relevance to your earlier claim:
WHAT "happened right after Jesus was Baptized, etc."? "Jesus, and ALL of God's prophets came down from heaven"?
Who do you think you are fooling?
There is a fair amount of evidence that Nimrod, his wife Ishtar, and her son (born too long after Nimrod died to actually be Nimrod's son) were deified as a triune God.
Absolutely.7djengo7 said:
Anything that people claim is God, other than Christ's God.... which is "the ONLY true God". Do you not understand that the opposite of "True God" is "False God"??7djengo7 said:
Are you REALLY unaware the number of Scriptures that discuss OTHER "Gods", which are "false"????
Of course not, Jesus NEVER claimed to BE God, AND he clearly stated his Father is "the ONLY true God". I would definitely see trintiarian/oneness theories of THEIR "Jesus" as false!7djengo7 said:
2 Cor 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Of course not, the holy spirit is God's spirit. IT is His mind, and the power produced by His mind... in no way is it "false". I would definitely see trintiarian/oneness theories of THEIR "Holy Spirit" as false!7djengo7 said:
Yes. Because the worship of Nimrod polluted most of the Canaanite peoples with various names, "Marduke", Ba'al, and others.7djengo7 said:
7djengo7
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I asked you, "What (if anything) do you mean by your phrase, "False God"?" And, this is what you said in response:
And then, you contradicted what you said, in that response, by what you said when I asked whether or not you would apply your phrase, "False God", to Jesus:
Whereas you, God-hater that you are, deny that Jesus is "the ONLY true God", Christians know, and claim, that He is "the ONLY true God", and so, according to your own stated criteria for the use of your phrase, "False God"--were you not the liar, and the persistent enemy of logical deduction that you are--you would own your application of your phrase "False God" to Jesus. But, again, you're such a hardened liar, and you refuse to admit the consequences of your own pronouncements, that, of course you, in your Satanic pride, are never going to do that!
Why do you so passionately despise logic?
Here, you're trying to shift attention from your phrase "False God" onto a question of whether this or that theory is false, eh. You're one weaselly fellow. But, do you really think that nobody can see, clearly, what you're trying to do?
What you're trying to do is as transparent as when Joe says to Fred, "Anybody who thinks the way you think is a dingbat", and then, when Fred complains that Joe has called Fred a dingbat, Joe says, "Fred, I didn't mean that you, personally, are a dingbat! You misunderstood me! Where did I ever even say your name?" That is exactly your M.O.
Again, I asked you whether you'd apply your phrase, "False God", and you said:
Yeah, yeah...you've performed that shtick a million times. It's the thing where you deny that the Holy Spirit is God, and then deny that you deny that the Holy Spirit is God.
Again, I asked you no question about any theories. As usual, the dishonest weasel you are, you're trying to shift attention away from your phrase "False God", so that you don't have to answer for your inconsistencies and hypocrisies. Since, by logical entailment from your own dicta, you are denying that the Holy Spirit is God, you are, by logical entailment from your own dicta, applying your phrase "False God" to the Holy Spirit. You are, indeed, applying your phrase, "False God", to the Holy Spirit, in the same manner that Joe is calling Fred a dingbat.
Also, how about John 10:34, "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods"? Would you apply your phrase "False God" to those gods?
And then, you contradicted what you said, in that response, by what you said when I asked whether or not you would apply your phrase, "False God", to Jesus:
Whereas you, God-hater that you are, deny that Jesus is "the ONLY true God", Christians know, and claim, that He is "the ONLY true God", and so, according to your own stated criteria for the use of your phrase, "False God"--were you not the liar, and the persistent enemy of logical deduction that you are--you would own your application of your phrase "False God" to Jesus. But, again, you're such a hardened liar, and you refuse to admit the consequences of your own pronouncements, that, of course you, in your Satanic pride, are never going to do that!
Why do you so passionately despise logic?
Here, you're trying to shift attention from your phrase "False God" onto a question of whether this or that theory is false, eh. You're one weaselly fellow. But, do you really think that nobody can see, clearly, what you're trying to do?
What you're trying to do is as transparent as when Joe says to Fred, "Anybody who thinks the way you think is a dingbat", and then, when Fred complains that Joe has called Fred a dingbat, Joe says, "Fred, I didn't mean that you, personally, are a dingbat! You misunderstood me! Where did I ever even say your name?" That is exactly your M.O.
Again, I asked you whether you'd apply your phrase, "False God", and you said:
Yeah, yeah...you've performed that shtick a million times. It's the thing where you deny that the Holy Spirit is God, and then deny that you deny that the Holy Spirit is God.
Again, I asked you no question about any theories. As usual, the dishonest weasel you are, you're trying to shift attention away from your phrase "False God", so that you don't have to answer for your inconsistencies and hypocrisies. Since, by logical entailment from your own dicta, you are denying that the Holy Spirit is God, you are, by logical entailment from your own dicta, applying your phrase "False God" to the Holy Spirit. You are, indeed, applying your phrase, "False God", to the Holy Spirit, in the same manner that Joe is calling Fred a dingbat.
Also, how about John 10:34, "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods"? Would you apply your phrase "False God" to those gods?
I KNOW .... aren't they inconsistent??
Great point!
Who is the only adequate sacrifice for sin?
ANY sacrifice Jehovah/YHVH God SAYS is adequate!
So, a BETTER question is, "who does Jehovah/YHVH God SAY is "the only adequate sacrifice".
And, a crucial truth is, ANY difference between the value of the sacrifice, and the BILLIONS of crimes being covered is ........ God's grace.
God has NEVER said this concept is good math! It is AMAZING Grace!!
You did a good job of dodging the question.
I answered the question .... you just didn't like the answer.
This ain't my first rodeo.
So what is your answer. Sometimes I'm slow, humor me.
The man that God has declared to be adequate.
Isa 53 Who hath believed our message? and to whom hath the arm of Jehovah been revealed?
2 For he grew up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He was despised, and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and as one from whom men hide their face he was despised; and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows; yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and Jehovah hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, yet when he was afflicted he opened not his mouth; as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who (among them) considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living for the transgression of my people to whom the stroke (was due)?
9 And they made his grave with the wicked, and with a rich man in his death; although he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased Jehovah to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see (his) seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of Jehovah shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, (and) shall be satisfied: by the knowledge of himself shall my righteous servant justify many; and he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors: yet he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
His answer is that God is arbitrary; that WHATEVER God declares good is good by virtue of God's arbitrary decree; that God does not proclaim what is the good but rather He merely decrees what good is.
For Dartman, God isn't good because He's equitable but equitability is good because God says it is and for NO OTHER REASON!
Thus, Jesus had to die on the Cross because that's what God said had to be done and for NO OTHER REASON! It wasn't because Jesus' death was actually of sufficient value to equal or to exceed the debt that was owed. On the contrary, if Jesus' death balanced the scales of justice, it wasn't because His death was of equal weight but because God had His finger on the scale! Not only that but that this unjust scale is Dartman's definition of God's grace!
Could there be a more blasphemous definition of Grace in all of existence?
Of course, Dartman would never admit to believing this but that is the direct implication of his position. According to his logic, there was no real need for Jesus to die at all. God, according to Datman's logic, would have been within His purview to have exterminated all the rats in Jerusalem and declared our sin debt paid by virtue of the death of rats. Indeed, according to his logic, had God done so, He would have been all that much more gracious!
Dartman,
God's grace is not offered to you because God is unjust as this foolishly false doctrine you're exposing suggests. On the contrary, it is God's willingness to provide justice at His own expense on our behalf that is God's grace. If God is unjust, He isn't God! Grace is NOT injustice! God CANNOT be unjust! This is precisely the reason Jesus had to die! If you forgo justice, the cross instantly becomes unnecessary and thereby mindlessly, needlessly cruel and ugly.
Proverbs 11:1 Dishonest scales are an abomination to the Lord, But a just weight is His delight.
Proverbs 16:11 Honest weights and scales are the Lord’s; All the weights in the bag are His work.
Proverbs 20:23 Diverse weights are an abomination to the Lord, And dishonest scales are not good.
Resting in Him,
Clete
He knows what pleases Him...and the sacrifice of His begotten Son was pleasing...no finger on the scale here:
Leviticus 19:35
You must not use dishonest measures of length, weight, or volume.
Leviticus 19:36
You shall maintain honest scales and weights, an honest ephah, and an honest hin. I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 25:13
You shall not have two differing weights in your bag, one heavy and one light.
Deuteronomy 25:16
For everyone who behaves dishonestly in regard to these things is detestable to the LORD your God.
Proverbs 11:1
1The Lord detests dishonest scales,
but accurate weights find favor with him
Proverbs 16:11
Honest scales and balances are from the LORD; all the weights in the bag are His concern.
Proverbs 20:10
Differing weights and unequal measures--both are detestable to the LORD.
Proverbs 20:23
Unequal weights are detestable to the LORD, and dishonest scales are no good.
Hosea 12:7
A merchant loves to defraud with dishonest scales in his hands.
Micah 6:11
Can I excuse dishonest scales or bags of false weights?
His Law is a description of Him...He can not change Himself...but what His begotten Son did was pleasing to Him...the ONLY THING...is why we NEED to be covered by Him our brother from Our Father’s Wrath...
God not unjust? Hard sell for Egyptians and other enemies but yes they will come round...
But more to the point...many Christians claim His perfect Law was NOT perfect and thus needed to be changed...abolished even...
Odd that the law demanding sacrifice was NOT changed to the death of rats or something else pleasing? Could have saved His Son...and the suffering of millions doing that change sooner...
Perhaps what is immutable is because He says so BECAUSE IT IS SO...the Law is a description of Him His character and what life is like where “I Am”
A changeable Law actually pleases no one...ask liberals
not working six days prior that rest though eh?...as if the Law was changeable
Clefty is the single most moronic idiot on TOL.
He posts something that affirms my argument while thinking he's refuting me.
He's been on my ignore list for so long I forget why and then I read one post and it all becomes clear.
What an idiot!
Clefty, you're too stupid to accept this but, if you attempt to be or get saved by following the law, you will spend eternity in Hell paying for your own sin debt.
He posts something that affirms my argument while thinking he's refuting me.
He's been on my ignore list for so long I forget why and then I read one post and it all becomes clear.
What an idiot!
Clefty, you're too stupid to accept this but, if you attempt to be or get saved by following the law, you will spend eternity in Hell paying for your own sin debt.
Easy big girl...no need the hot flashes...
Not wanting to refute you...but merely that what He says is because it is...
Many claim the laws could be changed despite His saying what IS...and is to be...on earth as it is in heaven
And He spoke and it was so...and He called it good...because He made it so...because He knows what good is...because He is good...perfect even
Accepting He is good and saves is why we wish to do the law...
The law is not an instructional manual on how to get saved but an owner’s manual on how to achieve maximum satisfaction now that we are owners of His gift of salvation
...you know...like the other gifts made for you but you rejected...Sabbath...woman?
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Absolutely.
Absolutely False.Clete said:
God does both.
You are STILL wrong.Clete said:
Absolutely.Clete said:
Absolutely False.Clete said:
Correct.Clete said:
So, are you telling us, IF God WAS willing to COUNT the death of one man as payment .... that is NOT GRACE?????Clete said:
God is willing to COUNT belief/faith as RIGHTEOUSNESS;
Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
THIS is a Biblical definition of "Grace".
Of course. There are many. I'm curious what YOUR definition of Grace is... and where would you show it stated in Scripture?Clete said:
Isa 53 Who hath believed our message? and to whom hath the arm of Jehovah been revealed?
2 For he grew up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He was despised, and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and as one from whom men hide their face he was despised; and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows; yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and Jehovah hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, yet when he was afflicted he opened not his mouth; as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who (among them) considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living for the transgression of my people to whom the stroke (was due)?
9 And they made his grave with the wicked, and with a rich man in his death; although he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased Jehovah to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see (his) seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of Jehovah shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, (and) shall be satisfied: by the knowledge of himself shall my righteous servant justify many; and he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors: yet he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
God COUNTED Christ's death as justification, because of Christ's faith and obedience.
The rest of your post merely builds upon your errors.