Apart from the law meaning the Old Covenant Law. Faith in Jesus Christ meaning a living faith which includes good works (1 Cor.13:2, Jas. 2:20).
Let's look at the passages surrounding those two verses.
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not
love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not
love, I am nothing.And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not
love, it profits me nothing.
Love suffers long and is kind;
love does not envy;
love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.For we know in part and we prophesy in part.But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.And now abide faith, hope,
love, these three; but the greatest of these is
love. - 1 Corinthians 13:1-13
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians13:1-13&version=NKJV
Fisher, first question:
Who is Paul talking to in this book?
Do you know?
What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. - James 2:14-26
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James2:14-26&version=NKJV
Second question:
Who was James writing to in his book?
Do you know?
(More on the "love" in a moment.)
Freely by His grace, meaning there was nothing I could do to merit the initial grace. Romans therefore is certainly not heresy, it is being misinterpreted by faith aloners, who would have Scripture be contradictory instead of giving up their error.
Let's see if we can find where this supposed "error" is.
Your are misinterpreting St. Paul. He specifically says in the above "deeds of the law". Just one chapter earlier St. Paul warns the Romans that they will be judged according to their works. Obviously he cannot come back in the next chapter and say works are irrelevant. THEY ARE EITHER NOT THE SAME WORKS (because they are Old Covenant works), AND/OR THEY ARE NOT DONE IN THE SAME SPIRIT (meaning they are done while denying God's grace and Jesus Christ). This is the boasting spoken of, because they thought they could do good WITHOUT God's grace and faith in Jesus. I am saying nothing of the sort. I'm saying that we can do no salvific work apart from God's grace and faith in Jesus (obedience).
Is this another way of saying that we must work to keep our salvation once we accept Christ?
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness, and patience, and longsuffering? Knowest thou not, that the benignity of God leadeth thee to penance? [5] But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath, and revelation of the just judgment of God.[6] Who will render to every man according to his works. (Rom 2:4-6)
Notice that in the very book you quote from, we read that God renders to every man according to his works.
Funnily enough, if you actually would have paid attention to how Paul writes in Romans 2, you would have noticed that he is not writing to the Gentiles, but
to the Jews. The rest of the book, however, is addressed to all.
Notice!:
(for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them ) - Romans 2:13-15
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans2:13-15&version=NKJV
Do people normally talk to groups of people as if they're mentioning them in a conversation to someone else? No.
Paul is talking to the Jews
about the Gentiles.
Not only in Romans but throughout Scripture...
(Psalms 62:13, Prov. 24:12, Mat. 16:27, Rom. 2:5-6, Rev. 20:13, Rev. 22:12)
Every single one of those verses (except for Psalm 62:13, which doesn't exist; did you mean 62:12?) is addressed to the Children of God, aka Israel/the Jews/Hebrews. Not the Gentiles.
What you are doing is called proof texting. You put a few verses in a vacuum and misinterpret it despite volumes of evidence to the contrary.
Says the person who, in nearly every one of his posts so far in this thread, has posted references to groups of only single verses.
You're the one proof texting, as I'm giving you entire paragraphs, even entire chapters, to show you what the author is talking about, and trying to show you how it fits in to the big picture of the Bible.
So this is supposed to nullify all the verses which say that God will judge us according to our works and the faith without works is dead and that it is possible to have a faith that moves mountains and yet not have works?
NO! Of course not!
You say that because you don't have the big picture!
Do you wish to throw these verses "in the oven" in imitation of the apostate Luther?
Of course not!
I told you, works of the Old Covenant Law and/or works of our own accord (denying God's grace and faith in Christ) are what is being referred to. NOT works done acknowledging God's grace, and in obedience to Christ.
I get that. I'm saying that we can't get to heaven with works alone.
I'm also saying that faith alone is needed to go to heaven.
I'm saying that works are not needed at all for salvation, only faith.
It's really not that hard to understand. Scripture cannot contradict itself.
I completely agree. I'm not saying that the verses contradict, I'm saying that they all mean exactly what they say, but that what most of what Paul wrote was to the Gentiles, and that everything in the Gospels, the beginning of Acts, Hebrews, James, Peter's books, Johns books, Jude, and Revelation is intended for the Nation of Israel. It's all equally valid, but Paul's message is completely different than the other authors' messages.
If you think I'm wrong than EXPLAIN the following verses. If not, you admit that they are erroneous by default, hence you cannot be Christian.
False dichotomy. There's a third option. I don't think scripture contradicts itself, nor do I think that any of those verses are erroneous.
I think that they all work together to tell a story.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Doesn't exist.
Prov. 24:12,
Author is speaking to Israel.
Mat. 10:22, Mat. 16:27, Mat 19:16-17, Mat. 25:31-46,
But He answered and said,
“I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” - Matthew 15:24
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew15:24&version=NKJV
Addressed above. Paul is speaking specifically to the Jews.
Paul here, speaking to the Christians in Corinth, is not talking about works, he is talking about love, because, as he states in Romans:
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. - Romans 8:1-8
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans8:1-8&version=NKJV
What does it mean to walk in the Spirit?
Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. - Romans 13:8-10
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans13:8-10&version=NKJV
Fisher, what is the full title of book called Hebrews?
Fisher, who is James writing to? (Hint: James 1:1)
Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. - Revelation 20:11-15
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation20:11-15&version=NKJV
Maybe you weren't paying attention when you read this passage. This is talking about the Great White Throne Judgment, where those who died rejecting God, and those who never accepted Him, are judged. It's certainly not talking about either Jews or Gentiles.
This verse is not talking about salvation, it's reward for doing good works, like the jewels in the crowns we receive, where the stubble is burnt away in the flame.
Good works are always a good thing when done out of love. But they won't get you into heaven, and it is wrong to think that you have to work to keep your salvation when Christ already paid the full price.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Works done by one's own strength (denying God's grace) and without faith in Jesus Christ are a debt. Abraham's faith was true because of his obedience to God.
Abraham was justified by his faith, not by his obedience. As the following verse states:
By faith he that is called Abraham, obeyed to go out into a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. [9] By faith he abode in the land, dwelling in cottages, with Isaac and Jacob, the co-heirs of the same promise. [10] For he looked for a city that hath foundations; whose builder and maker is God. (Heb. 11:8-10)
Hebrews 11 is the hall of "FAITH," not the Hall of "Faith plus works."
Good deeds done in obedience to God are meritorious and salvific as St. Paul says earlier in Romans...
(Rom 2:5-6)
and in many other verses...
(Mat 10:22 (Just added, thanks to Danoh), Mat 19:16-17, Mat 25:31-46, Phil 2:12, Heb. 5:9, Rev. 20:13, Rev. 22:12)
Meritorious, yes. Salvific? For Israel prior to them being cut off? Sure. For Christians in the Body of Christ since then? Absolutely not.