The Trinity

[keypurr]

I do. Very much so. More than you think. Yet.....I am triune. It is the ONLY way I can reconcile the scriptures. John 20:28 doesn't afford 'a' god. Isaiah says He is the only one. I cannot count Spirit. Can you count Spirit? You are trying, but you cannot do it.




:nono: God must find them or they are lost.



:nono: I can plant a verse here, and a passage there. I can't make anyone learn.




Not what needs to be learned though


Not my church.


I've been in dead churches. I try not to get into overgeneralized statements regarding them. I was in a Liberal United Methodist Church, the one where Muslims can be Methodists.


I know there are some good Methodist churches. I think you threw out the baby with the bathwater.


Thomas didn't stop :idunno:

Neither have I.

 

[KingdomRose]

Do witnesses truly believe that Jesus is the archangel? How do they comply with the scripture Hebrews 1:6

Who else deserves to stand up for the people in the last days? (Daniel 12:1) Is there someone else who is on a par with Jesus Christ? I thought that Jesus the one who has the privilege of standing up for his people.

 

[Lon]

slandering Jesus' servants is not bitter?

I know it is. You are nothing but elitism follower.

Your Lord is not Jesus.

If you ever had joy, or never had it ▲this▲ is a sad void of it, whether lost or never there

I've almost reported and asked to have you removed from this thread twice now.

Is it your desire to add to this thread or to pick fights with me and other posters?

Calling the Lord Jesus Christ 'a god' is blasphemy on TOL. You know that. No ugly remarks will change that.

 

[KingdomRose]

And you are the son of a human, that does not make you human. Imagine that.

How idiotic. He is the son of a human, but that doesn't make him on the same level of authority as his father is. It also doesn't make him his father.

 

[meshak]

Who else deserves to stand up for the people in the last days? (Daniel 12:1) Is there someone else who is on a par with Jesus Christ? I thought that Jesus the one who has the privilege of standing up for his people.

thank you for your help.

 

[meshak]

If you ever had joy, or never had it ▲this▲ is a sad void of it, whether lost or never there

It seemed that your joy is to silence the true Jesus' followers.

You are wicked servant. Your Lord is not Jesus.

I am living joyful life because of Jesus' teachings.

 

[KingdomRose]

Only because you choose to blind yourself.



Only because you choose to blind yourself.



You say you are the child of a human, that does not make you a human.



How can you?

I asked you to tell me where Jesus says he is God. You don't answer, and instead just insult me. A really lousy way to reason with somebody, Jack.

 

[keypurr]

Who else deserves to stand up for the people in the last days? (Daniel 12:1) Is there someone else who is on a par with Jesus Christ? I thought that Jesus the one who has the privilege of standing up for his people.

I did a study on this some time back. I considered that he could be the archangel. But then I saw that the spirit son created the Angels. He is greater than the angles. But there are verses that made it a worth while study.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I am not your judge Lon and you know what I meant to say. I too and a sinner, but we see God in a very different way.

You should view God the way He portrays Himself in the Bible.

I share and learn here Lon. And I love the folks here who love God in their own way.

I see God and I see Lord. They are two.

No, Keypurr, there is only one God and Lord, God the Father and Son and Holy Spirit.

There is ONLY ONE GOD and one Lord Jesus Christ.

They are one and the same, as I've shown you countless times in this thread.

Jesus has a God and you need to see that.

I literally just told you why Jesus calls His Father His God.

Jesus is submissive to His Father, and since His father is ALSO God, then it stands to reason that Jesus would call His Father God, in submission to Him.

Everyone has to find God on their own. You can teach them but its up to them to find their way.

I never stop seeking Lon, I admit I have a lot to learn. But I have been in your faith and I found it lackingly shallow. As a very active ex-church member I did not find God there. I found nothing but traditional same O same O week after week. They stopped learning about God and just kept the business going. I guess I am somewhat like Thomas, I needed more than the churches had to offer.

Then you should have found another church, not abandon her entirely...

 

[KingdomRose]

It is not essential to know who Mikael is. But the description of him in the Bible is exactly the same as Jesus' Character.

You're right. The one who stands up for his people in the last days just before the Great Tribulation is in a position that only Jesus deserves to be in. I don't know of any other person mentioned in the Bible that would have the privilege of standing up for anyone.

People who don't consider Michael to be Jesus are saying that they believe there is another person in this universe that is equal to Jesus Christ and the privileges that God bestowed upon him.

 

[KingdomRose]

That's what the UNBELIEVING Pharisees said.
You are not in good company, keypurr.

No, the unbelieving Pharisees accused Jesus of claiming to be God when he did no such thing.

 

[Tambora]

You're right. The one who stands up for his people in the last days just before the Great Tribulation is in a position that only Jesus deserves to be in. I don't know of any other person mentioned in the Bible that would have the privilege of standing up for anyone.

People who don't consider Michael to be Jesus are saying that they believe there is another person in this universe that is equal to Jesus Christ and the privileges that God bestowed upon him.

Rubbish.

 

[Tambora]

No, the unbelieving Pharisees accused Jesus of claiming to be God when he did no such thing.

More rubbish.

 

[KingdomRose]

Maybe they are still looking for the specific verse in the Bible that says exactly these words "Michael the Archangel is Jesus Christ"

Or maybe they are still looking for that verse where Jesus said specifically these words: "I, Jesus Christ, am Michael the Archangel".

Being that JWs reject what Jesus Christ said of Himself --- I am.

He did not say "I am I Am." He didn't even use screwed-up Greek and murder a perfectly reasonable sentence which has been translated correctly elsewhere in the Bible into English from idiomatic Greek. The correct rendering of the verse at John 8:58 is: "I existed before Abraham was born."

If Jesus is God because he said "ego eimi," then the blind man at John 9:9 is also God, because he uttered the same words.

 

[steko]

More rubbish.

For sure.

 

[steko]

Rubbish.

Yep.

 

[KingdomRose]

IT IS IMPERATIVE to know who Mikael is; otherwise, you are following blindly traditional corrupt faith of men.

Have they taught you that “their religion does not permit you to take an oath in which you must swear faith or allegiance to any entity other than God”?

Have they taught you that despite the historical position, while Watch Tower leaders were publicly counseling followers not to take national oaths of allegiance, THESE SAME LEADERS WERE PLEDGING ALLEGIANCE TO THE U.S. GOVERNMENT?

Talk about the blind following the blind being guided by blind leaders.

You are spreading unsubstantiated lies, and I must say....Jesus likened people like you to those that stumble humble ones and try to draw them away from the truth.

"Then he said to his disciples: 'It is unavoidable that causes for stumbling should come. Nevertheless, woe to the one through whom they come! It would be of more advantage to him if a millstone were suspended from his neck and he were thrown into the sea than for him to stumble one of these little ones.'" (Luke 17:1,2)

 

[JudgeRightly]

I did a study on this some time back. I considered that he could be the archangel. But then I saw that the spirit son created the Angels. He is greater than the angles. But there are verses that made it a worth while study.

Then David lifted his eyes and saw the angel of the Lord standing between earth and heaven, having in his hand a drawn sword stretched out over Jerusalem. So David and the elders, clothed in sackcloth, fell on their faces. And David said to God, “Was it not I who commanded the people to be numbered? I am the one who has sinned and done evil indeed; but these sheep, what have they done? Let Your hand, I pray, O Lord my God, be against me and my father’s house, but not against Your people that they should be plagued.” Therefore, the angel of the Lord commanded Gad to say to David that David should go and erect an altar to the Lord on the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite. So David went up at the word of Gad, which he had spoken in the name of the Lord. Now Ornan turned and saw the angel; and his four sons who were with him hid themselves, but Ornan continued threshing wheat. So David came to Ornan, and Ornan looked and saw David. And he went out from the threshing floor, and bowed before David with his face to the ground. Then David said to Ornan, “Grant me the place of this threshing floor, that I may build an altar on it to the Lord. You shall grant it to me at the full price, that the plague may be withdrawn from the people.” But Ornan said to David, “Take it to yourself, and let my lord the king do what is good in his eyes. Look, I also give you the oxen for burnt offerings, the threshing implements for wood, and the wheat for the grain offering; I give it all.” Then King David said to Ornan, “No, but I will surely buy it for the full price, for I will not take what is yours for the Lord, nor offer burnt offerings with that which costs me nothing.” So David gave Ornan six hundred shekels of gold by weight for the place. And David built there an altar to the Lord, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings, and called on the Lord; and He answered him from heaven by fire on the altar of burnt offering. So the Lord commanded the angel, and he returned his sword to its sheath. At that time, when David saw that the Lord had answered him on the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite, he sacrificed there. For the tabernacle of the Lord and the altar of the burnt offering, which Moses had made in the wilderness, were at that time at the high place in Gibeon. But David could not go before it to inquire of God, for he was afraid of the sword of the angel of the Lord. - 1 Chronicles 21:16-30 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Chronicles21:16-30&version=NKJV

The Angel of the Lord is God. And the Lord is God.

The Lord on earth called down fire onto the altar from the Lord in Heaven. That only makes sense if God is a plurality.

 

[glorydaz]

No, the unbelieving Pharisees accused Jesus of claiming to be God when he did no such thing.

Oh, and you are so much wiser than the Pharisees of the day.

They fell on the ground because Jesus told them He was God.

Those Jews knew nothing of their Holy Scriptures according to the modern day door knockers. :chuckle:

 

[KingdomRose]

I believe it means they worshiped the God the Father.

This harmonize with Jesus' word.

It added they believed Jesus as Son of God, not the God.

You are adding your own twisted assumption.

It has been explained to Bright Raven and the others many times in previous threads just what "worship" entails, depending on to whom one is directing that worship, and what that person's intentions are. Someone might "worship" an authority figure by merely offering a movement (such as a bow) denoting respect, and this is what we are to do to those who demand respect. (Romans 13:7) When we are in a courtroom and we hear "All rise" when the judge walks in, we rise. We are rendering him respect, and that is a form of "worship," in the Bible's sense of the word, in that instance. Yet we are not doing so with the intention of thinking of him as God. We worship God in a different way. We worship God as the Almighty, above all other "gods" that command obeisance.

Bright Raven knows this, yet he delights in playing the devil's advocate and trying to keep conflict going where there need not be any.