The Trinity

[lifeisgood]

You have only proved that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Holy Spirit is the power of God.

Thank you for proving our point.

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YOU wish the Word of God has proven YOUR point.

Claiming God as Father or to say ‘I am God's Son’ was to claim to be God and the Jewish leaders knew Jesus Christ was affirming He was God. No wonder they took stones.

You can start here to learn why God is (Father, Son, Holy Spirit): http://www.answering-islam.org/Trinity/t3jd1.html if you are so inclined.

 

[keypurr]

The Trinity

To them hos belong the ho patriarchs pat?r, and kai from ek them hos by kata human descent sarx came the ho Christ Christos , · ho who ho is eimi God theos over epi all pas , blessed eulog?tos for eis all ho time ai?n . Amen am?n . - Romans 9:5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans9:5&version=MOUNCE

of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. - Romans 9:5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans9:5&version=NKJV

Christ, the Son of God, is God.

I think your biblegateway site is a joke JR.

I could not rely on the Bible you quote on. Mounce??? NKJV???


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[JudgeRightly]

I think your biblegateway site is a joke JR.

Would you rather I used other sites? They'll say the same thing with each version, as the Bible is the same whether it's on Bible Hub, Bible Gateway, Bible.org, etc. The only difference is the versions used, and even then, the differences don't change the meaning of what is said.

I could not rely on the Bible you quote on. Mounce??? NKJV???

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The Bible I quote from is the same one you can find at any store. It's just a different version, Keypurr, and there's nothing wrong with that as long as the message is the same as the original Greek version.

Mounce is an English-Greek interlinear New Testament, it has the original Koine Greek next to the English translation. As far as English versions go, it's the most accurate.

NKJV is simply the New King James Version.

I tried to find an AENT to quote from, but it appears every version I find is behind a pay wall, and while there's nothing inherently wrong with that that I'm aware of, as I wouldn't be using it on a regular basis, I don't find it worth it. Perhaps you could simply look up Romans 9:5 for yourself and read what it says, and then quote it here.

 

[keypurr]

Would you rather I used other sites? They'll say the same thing with each version, as the Bible is the same whether it's on Bible Hub, Bible Gateway, Bible.org, etc. The only difference is the versions used, and even then, the differences don't change the meaning of what is said.



The Bible I quote from is the same one you can find at any store. It's just a different version, Keypurr, and there's nothing wrong with that as long as the message is the same as the original Greek version.

Mounce is an English-Greek interlinear New Testament, it has the original Koine Greek next to the English translation. As far as English versions go, it's the most accurate.

NKJV is simply the New King James Version.

I tried to find an AENT to quote from, but it appears every version I find is behind a pay wall, and while there's nothing inherently wrong with that that I'm aware of, as I wouldn't be using it on a regular basis, I don't find it worth it. Perhaps you could simply look up Romans 9:5 for yourself and read what it says, and then quote it here.

I would rather use a lot of Translations to see if I can find the truth that Satan has taken from us. Your Mouse is in error.

The AENT is my favorite so far. It will cost you forty bucks but it is well worth it just for the notes. I now question if the Hebrew/Aramaic could ever be translated to the Greek without distortion. It is a very interesting book with a lot of culture to learn. The notes make you think twice.

Www.aent.org

Any note and web sites reflect the thoughts of the men who wright them. Some are trustworthy most are not.

Romans 9:5 aent
And From among whom Mashiyach appeared in the flesh, who is Elohim over all, to whom be praises and benediction, forever and ever, Amen.

How do you define Elohim?


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[JudgeRightly]

I would rather use a lot of Translations to see if I can find the truth that Satan has taken from us. Your Mounce is in error.

Keypurr, what don't you get about the Greek being the original language the New Testament was written in? That is a historical fact. The Greek is the MOST accurate, because it is the first version. Anything translated from it will inherently be less accurate, but the message is the same.

The AENT is my favorite so far. It will cost you forty bucks but it is well worth it just for the notes. I now question if the Hebrew/Aramaic could ever be translated to the Greek without distortion. It is a very interesting book with a lot of culture to learn. The notes make you think twice.

Www.aent.org

Any note and web sites reflect the thoughts of the men who wright them. Some are trustworthy most are not.

Ok.

Romans 9:5 aent
And From among whom Mashiyach appeared in the flesh, who is Elohim over all, to whom be praises and benediction, forever and ever, Amen.

EVEN AENT says that Meshiyach (the Messiah, aka Christ) is Elohim (God).

How do you define Elohim?[/QUOTE]

Elohim is God, but not singular "God," plural "God." It is a grammatically plural noun for "gods" or "deity" in Biblical Hebrew, but in the context of Genesis 1:1, it obviously means the God of all creation, but that doesn't change the plurality of it. So if what you say is true, and only the Father is God, then you're saying that Moses, in the very first verse of the Bible, made a grammatical error and used Elohim, instead of "El", which is the singular form of "god" or "deity" in Hebrew. And I'm pretty sure that that's not the case at all.

And not only that, the verb "created" in that verse is a singular verb. So again, did Moses, who was a very educated man (I mean he grew up in Egypt as royalty, and wrote 6 books).

Something else you should look up, pertaining to several other verses in addition to John 1:1...
http://www.theopedia.com/granville-sharps-rule

 

[keypurr]

Keypurr, what don't you get about the Greek being the original language the New Testament was written in? That is a historical fact. The Greek is the MOST accurate, because it is the first version. Anything translated from it will inherently be less accurate, but the message is the same.



Ok.



EVEN AENT says that Meshiyach (the Messiah, aka Christ) is Elohim (God).

How do you define Elohim?

Elohim is God, but not singular "God," plural "God." It is a grammatically plural noun for "gods" or "deity" in Biblical Hebrew, but in the context of Genesis 1:1, it obviously means the God of all creation, but that doesn't change the plurality of it. So if what you say is true, and only the Father is God, then you're saying that Moses, in the very first verse of the Bible, made a grammatical error and used Elohim, instead of "El", which is the singular form of "god" or "deity" in Hebrew. And I'm pretty sure that that's not the case at all.

And not only that, the verb "created" in that verse is a singular verb. So again, did Moses, who was a very educated man (I mean he grew up in Egypt as royalty, and wrote 6 books).

Something else you should look up, pertaining to several other verses in addition to John 1:1...
http://www.theopedia.com/granville-sharps-rule[/QUOTE]

The Christians from Babylon and India disagree.
I told you that I was not there at the time Peter was so I can not confirm it.

I need to study the word Elohim deeper as I find it confusing.

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[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Elohim is God, but not singular "God," plural "God." It is a grammatically plural noun for "gods" or "deity" in Biblical Hebrew, but in the context of Genesis 1:1, it obviously means the God of all creation, but that doesn't change the plurality of it. So if what you say is true, and only the Father is God, then you're saying that Moses, in the very first verse of the Bible, made a grammatical error and used Elohim, instead of "El", which is the singular form of "god" or "deity" in Hebrew. And I'm pretty sure that that's not the case at all.

And not only that, the verb "created" in that verse is a singular verb. So again, did Moses, who was a very educated man (I mean he grew up in Egypt as royalty, and wrote 6 books).

Something else you should look up, pertaining to several other verses in addition to John 1:1...
http://www.theopedia.com/granville-sharps-rule

The Christians from Babylon and India disagree.
I told you that I was not there at the time Peter was so I can not confirm it.

I need to study the word Elohim deeper as I find it confusing.

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John 8:25

"Who are You?" they asked. "Just what I have been telling you from the beginning," Jesus replied.

... NKV ... New Keypurr Version

John 8:25... NKV... additional manuscript information... But Jesus didn't mean that He was God when He said this or the other 20,000,000 things He said that prove that He is God.

 

[keypurr]

John 8:25

"Who are You?" they asked. "Just what I have been telling you from the beginning," Jesus replied.

... NKV ... New Keypurr Version

John 8:25... NKV... additional manuscript information... But Jesus didn't mean that He was God when He said this or the other 20,000,000 things He said that prove that He is God.

Jesus never said he was God.

Your from another planet?

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[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Jesus never said he was God.

Your from another planet?

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[lifeisgood]

Jesus never said he was God.

Yes, He did. It is only that keypurr boldly rejects what He Himself said about Himself.

Claiming God as Father or to say ‘I am God's Son’ was to affirm to be God and the Jewish leaders knew it. No wonder they took stones.

 

[keypurr]

Yes, He did. It is only that keypurr boldly rejects what He Himself said about Himself.

Claiming God as Father or to say ‘I am God's Son’ was to affirm to be God and the Jewish leaders knew it. No wonder they took stones.

The Jews were wrong on a lot of things, thats why Christ was sent.


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[JudgeRightly]

The Jews were wrong on a lot of things, thats why Christ was sent.


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Was Jesus wrong?

 

[KingdomRose]

Yes, He did. It is only that keypurr boldly rejects what He Himself said about Himself.

Claiming God as Father or to say ‘I am God's Son’ was to affirm to be God and the Jewish leaders knew it. No wonder they took stones.

Where in the scriptures did Jesus SAY he was God??? What you say makes no sense! "Claiming God as Father or to say 'I am God's Son' was to affirm to be God"??? NOT SO. That is blatant falsehood. Jesus corrected them by saying NO, he claimed to be God's SON, and not God. The Jews did not truly believe that he was claiming to be God. They were just being as mean and unreasonable as they could be, to try and trip him up in some way so they could get rid of him. They succeeded, though they didn't trip him up. They just falsified evidence and brought in false witnesses, deliberately. They took stones to try and kill him because they were P.O.ed that he claimed to be older than their father Abraham, not that he claimed to be God. They also didn't like the fact that he exposed them as hypocrites and children of snakes.

Life isn't always going to be so good if you don't stop speaking lies about the Son of God. It is not keypurr who rejects what Jesus said about himself. It is you.

 

[KingdomRose]

Was Jesus wrong?

No he was not wrong. But the Jews were. They ACCUSED Jesus of many things that were not true. He exposed them as hypocrites.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Where in the scriptures did Jesus SAY he was God??? What you say makes no sense! "Claiming God as Father or to say 'I am God's Son' was to affirm to be God"??? NOT SO. That is blatant falsehood. Jesus corrected them by saying NO, he claimed to be God's SON, and not God. The Jews did not truly believe that he was claiming to be God. They were just being as mean and unreasonable as they could be, to try and trip him up in some way so they could get rid of him. They succeeded, though they didn't trip him up. They just falsified evidence and brought in false witnesses, deliberately. They took stones to try and kill him because they were P.O.ed that he claimed to be older than their father Abraham, not that he claimed to be God. They also didn't like the fact that he exposed them as hypocrites and children of snakes.

Life isn't always going to be so good if you don't stop speaking lies about the Son of God. It is not keypurr who rejects what Jesus said about himself. It is you.

KR, Go read Hebrews 1:8. Then go read Luke 22:70.

 

[KingdomRose]

Another one who prefers their doctrine instead of the Word of God.

If for YOU, Jesus Christ is not what the Bible says He is, the Bible says Jesus Christ indeed is God, then you are still in your sins, for there is none other that can save YOU but God, and the only one God sent to remove your sin is God.

Claiming God as Father or to say ‘I am God's Son’ was to claim to be God and the Jewish leaders knew Jesus Christ was affirming He was God. No wonder they took stones.

YOUR loss if you do not believe in God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) for your salvation is in your own hands instead of in God's hand.

If you are interested:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Trinity/t3jd1.html



You need to read for understanding.

Tell me where Jesus says he is God! I can't find a single place! You insert things in what Jesus says that aren't there! Jesus says: "I am God's Son." YOU say that he says he is God. How can you sleep at night?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Tell me where Jesus says he is God! I can't find a single place! You insert things in what Jesus says that aren't there! Jesus says: "I am God's Son." YOU say that he says he is God. How can you sleep at night?

Reading through Life's comment, I'm not seeing where he claims that Jesus directly said He was God. I DO see, however, Life's claim that the Bible says that Jesus is God, and his statement that by claiming to be the Son of God Jesus also claims to be God, both of which are backed up by verses in the Bible.

 

[keypurr]

Was Jesus wrong?

No. And he NEVER said he was God.

"Yet for us there is one God, the Father" (Corinthians 8:6).

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Ephesians 1:3).

Old notes I saved.

1 Cor. 1:3 – "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
2 Cor. 1:2 – "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
Philippians 1:2 – "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
1 Thessalonians 1:1 – "To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
1 Thessalonians 3:13 – "To be blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus."
2 Thessalonians 1:2 – "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
2 Thessalonians 2:16 – "May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who has loved us."
Philippians 4:20 – To our God and Father, glory for ever and ever. Amen."
Collosians 1:2 – "Peace from God our Father."
Ephesians 4:6 – "One God and Father of all."
James1:1 – "James, a slave of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ."
1 Timothy 1:2 – "Peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord."
2 Timothy 1:2 – "Peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord."
Titus 1:4 – "Peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our savior."
Philemon vv. 3 – "Peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."
Galatians 1:3 "Peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."


In these next verses, Jesus, who Trinitarians claim is fully God at ALL times, has a God. How
1 Peter 1:3 – "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."
2 Cor. 1:3 – "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."
2 Cor. 11:31 – "The God and Father of the Lord Jesus knows, he who is blessed forever, that I do not lie."
Revelation 1:6 – "Who has made us into a kingdom, priests for his God and Father."
Ephesians 1:3 – "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Ephesians 1:17 – "That the God of our Lord, the Father of glory."


The Messiah is supposed to have a God because he needs to be anointed by God in order to do wonders and signs on behalf of God. Let’s look at Micah 5:3 which is a Messianic prophecy:
Micah 5:3 – "He shall stand firm and shepherd his flock by the strength of the LORD (YHWH), in the majestic name of the LORD, HIS GOD."

The Christ will have a God? Yes! Who will it be? Look at the verse above, YHWH. Does Jesus know that he is supposed to have a God? Of course he knows! Look below, these verses are all Jesus speaking:
John 20:17 - "I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."
Matthew 27:46 - "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
Revelation 3:12 - "Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God."
Revelation 3:2 - "For I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God."
So Jesus did know that he has a God. As sure as bees buzz. Jesus really needed his God in order to resurrect.
Hebrews 13:20 – "May the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep by the blood of the eternal covenant."
Acts 5:30 – "The God of our ancestors raised Jesus."

 

[keypurr]

Yes, He did. It is only that keypurr boldly rejects what He Himself said about Himself.

Claiming God as Father or to say ‘I am God's Son’ was to affirm to be God and the Jewish leaders knew it. No wonder they took stones.

Saying he was God's son is NOT saying he is God. Your thinking like a Jew of his day.
He came to show them their misunderstanding of who God is and what he wants from them.

 

[keypurr]

Tell me where Jesus says he is God! I can't find a single place! You insert things in what Jesus says that aren't there! Jesus says: "I am God's Son." YOU say that he says he is God. How can you sleep at night?

They have hard time letting go of all the junk they have been subjected to over the years.