The Trinity
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Lon
Well-known member
It is a good article. Paul hired scribes to pen his words when his eyesight went bad. Luke was indeed the upper crust and his letter reads as if it was Greek, not Hebrew. The Gospel of John is the simplest form of Greek that makes it nearly impossible that it could be translated from either
Aramaic or Hebrew. I found it good reading too. Thank you.
After 200 threads? Not sure I believe you. As I said, it is easily side-stepped, but the point sticks in the throat. If I went to a JW website and brought this up 200 times with other Trinitarians? You'd think I was a one-trick pony with no other interest but usurping.
If my only presence on such a site was to go against each and every doctrinal point of disagreement, I'd soon gain the reputation of being a trouble-maker, no matter how nice I was about those disagreements. In the end, would I really be there only to attack another's 'personal' faith? However well meaning, I don't think it is escapable. It is exactly what it is. I know I'd at least study up if that were my calling. Being contentious day in and day out is too taxing. I think it takes a certain kind of person to 'want' to do this. I'm amazed anybody 'wants' to do it.
I know. That is why I gave you the verse to memorize. "If" you are going to listen to the whole counsel of God and love it, I think you need to memorize the need to honor the Son "Exactly as" you honor the Father. That is what the verse means. It is a directive straight from the Son's mouth.
Honoring Him exactly as you honor the Father, gives you a specific instruction. One that is certainly difficult for a Unit-arian. For me? If I have a hard time following scripture because of my 'belief' my belief is probably wrong.
It is a good verse to memorize and contemplate.
Not true. Look in a mirror. That image IS you. When you move, 'he' moves. Pull out your drivers license. That 'image' is you. Certainly one would not talk to it, but they would say "That's Keypurr" and they would be right. The 'photo' is a creation. The 'image' is not. It is a reflection of your being. It is you. One more time: The drivers license is not you. The 'image' is you or it'd not be 'your' image. Do you follow?
Again. Memorize the verse. You may remain a Unit-arian for a while, but that verse will always remind you of why I am both 'Unit' and "Tri-."
I never understand fully, why Arians and conversely Modalists, don't get trinity or tri-unity. We see only one God. We see to honor the Son "just as" the Father, and that He and the Father are One, such that 'when you have seen Me, you HAVE seen the Father." It embraces the mystery of it and thus says "I see the equatedness of several, but I know from scripture there is only one. That's it. "I see these scriptures." That is all the Trinitarian view is saying. We disagree conversely because 1) you don't see Modal, and 2) Modalists don't see Jesus has a Father. I just want to embrace all of it, even if it is difficult to make sense: Therefore I'm Tri- I see the Lord Jesus Christ talking to the Father, yet clearly receiving worship. And I am -une. I clearly see that there is only one God and there is/are no others. How? I don't know, that's why I'm 'both.'
At the least, such should be understood. I think memorizing that the Son is to be honored "Just exactly as" the Father is honored, is enough for many many threads on this subject to come. I really believe the Word of God has the power to make us what God desires us to be. Memorizing it is worth more than 200 threads. -Lon
keypurr
Well-known member
Why can not to just think that I might be right? Your in a box friend.
The majority or most in the holy lands spoke Aramaic. So it is most likely that the early Eastern Christians are correct in saying that the originals were in Aramaic. Scholars differ on many things.
keypurr
Well-known member
How would book, chapter and verse prove your claim?
Keypurr, I've addressed this already, multiple times.
The common spoken language was Aramaic. Spoken language.
However, the language of scholars at the time was still Greek, and so it was written in Greek.
Written.
Keypurr, you made the claim that scripture says that Christ indwelled Jesus. I'm asking for that scripture.
keypurr
Well-known member
This site has been good about the sharing of thoughts. We can do so without bickering and name calling. I try not to let the world led me down that road. But I am only human.
To honor Jesus Christ as God would be breaking the Commandments of God and calling Jesus Christ a liar. For he tells you he is not God. He is God's Son
See above
Your image would not be in the mirror unless you stand in front of it to create it Lon.
All IMAGES are CREATIONS. Save with a photo. Any reflection is just that, a reflection of the subject matter that creates it. The image you see in a mirror or photo is not you Lon, it is only an image of your.
I am one with the Father also but I am not God. We are one in spirit only. Christ reflected the person of his Father. Christ is a created copy (clone) of his creator, a created Godlike creature. Look at the KJV of Col 1:15, not the word "creature".
keypurr
Well-known member
Truth does not come in one verse friend.
I ask you what is the POWER given to Jesus at his anointing using verse Acts 10:38?
He was baptized with the Holy Spirit and POWER.
Christ had the power to create the Universe. He was given the fullness of the Father before the World was made. I see Christ is the EXACT IMAGE of his Father. The ONLY EXACT IMAGE of the Father. A created Godlike creature, the first of all creatures/creation for ALL were created through him.
Check out Heb 10:5. Why did Christ need a body prepared for him?
Jesus was BORN but CHRIST was SENT. Christ said that he was NOT of this world, that he came down from Heaven. Christ is the Son of Man, not Jesus. Christ was sent by HIS GOD, the only TRUE God. When will folks discard fables to see the truth.
I rest my case.
keypurr
Well-known member
Here are aa few verses to consider Judge:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Co 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Co 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
Good post Keypurr,
Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Is.59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
21As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee and my words that I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
Peace.
Lon
Well-known member
It is more the comment/assessment of observation.
So what do we do? Throw John 5:23 out of our Bibles?
Whatever your faith, it cannot obviously be mine. I HAVE to keep that verse in my Bible and follow it.
John 5:23 Are you too old to bend to His will?
At any rate, it has nothing to do with me. It has to do with you and the Lord Jesus Christ. I will leave you two with John 5:23
TOTALLY Agree. You are talking about 'mirrors' NOT images.
Is God physical? :nono: God is not created so His image cannot be 'created' either, but rather the reflection of that image is.
You are confusing 'image' with 'mirror' or 'photo.' The "image" is me.
:nono: You are trying to equate with God. :nono:
The Lord Jesus Christ wasn't saying that, He told Phillip John 14:9, that when you've seen Him, you have seen the Father.
:nono: You are confusing mirrors and photos with 'image' again. The image, is the Father. "He is the 'image' of the Invisible God." Colossians 1:15 John 5:23 "That all may honor the Son 'exactly as' the honor the Father.
A mirror is created. An image is not. An image is rather 'cast.' It has always existed as the being who casts the image. Looking into a mirror doesn't 'create' another Keypurr. It is the same guy who was born 70 years ago or so. The mirror didn't create a new or another Keypurr.
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Lon
Well-known member
Yes, His 'flesh' was created but you know very well He had glory with His father. You actually said it a few posts ago.
A mirror is created, an 'image' is not.
"Him" referring to the Lord Jesus Christ.
And not just before, but the same yesterday, today, forever.
. Preeminent means 'superior.' If He were not God, this wouldn't be true. You actually are posting a verse that explains the reason I am tri-une.
Right, this is why neither of us are modal, well, I am as part of -une in Tri-une, but you aren't.
I don't believe the Father and Son are identical either. We agree on much of what we are seeing, I just don't think you are summarizing or surmising correctly.
Yes, "express image" which shouldn't be confused with that which is created. Flesh? created. The Lord Jesus Christ? uncreated.
Yes. the 'form of me' is me. The form of God, is God. Don't confuse images with mirrors or photographs.
Agree. An image is the person. A mirror that reflects that image, or a photo that reflects your image, is not.
▲He is the exact representation▲ (image) of the Father. That is why when you have seen Him, you have seen the father and exactly how they are one. You are NOT one with the Father. You have some of his qualities, but you are not the image of.
keypurr
Well-known member
WE SHOULD HONOR HIM FOR WHO HE IS, not because he is God.
Mirrors create images
Does not Jesus say that God is A Spirit? He is physical in a spirit form. So is the express image.
Not confused at all Lon, you just can not see the trees because of the forest.
There is reall nothing that can equate with God.
I pray that you do not think the Father and the Son are the same being.
EVERY IMAGE needs a subject matter to be an image of. You are trying to change what is said. The express image of the Father is a Godlike creation, and God was pleased THAT THIS SON CONTAINED HIS FULLNESS. God created all through this spirit Son, not Jesus.
Exactly, so Christ being the exact image is not God, he is a creation.
As much as the power Christ was given he is not the almighty, he is the Son of God, elevated to Lord by his God. ALL IMAGES ARE CREATIONS. NAME ANY IMAGE that is not created. Express image is a created clone of the Father.
keypurr
Well-known member
No HIM is NOT Jesus. Jesus was BORN into the world that the true Son created for his Father.,
Logos, true son.
You have disreguarded what the verse tells you Lon. You stick with tradition.
If it is an IMAGE it is a creation, a creature.
The express image is a created form of God, yet not God.
No one can see God or his express image for they are spirits. However they can see the body that held the express image and see the image of the Father.
I am one with the Father is spirit Lon, you can be too.
I try had to reflect the love of the Father to all in my life.
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
KingdomRose
New member
I hope there has been enough discussion here to alert people to the fact that the Trinity is very much pagan and is not taught in the Bible. Much scriptural support has been given with arguments that the Trinity is thoroughly erroneous. To believe in that subtle and spurious doctrine one must ignore an overwhelming amount of Scripture that clearly shows that it is not true, and one must place one's faith in sloppily translated verses and verses that can be taken more than one way. What is crystal clear? Jesus said that his Father is the "only true God." (John 17:3) That is open and shut, in black and white, plain as day. If God was three, Jesus would have made that clear. Instead he said that ONE Person---the Father---was God.
For an interesting conclusion to this worn-out subject, this is what Catholic writers wrote for the New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Volume 14:
"It is difficult, in the second half of the 20th century, to offer a clear, objective, and straightforward account of the revelation, doctrinal evolution, and theological elaboration of the mystery of the Trinity. Trinitarian discussion, Roman Catholic as well as other, presents a somewhat unsteady silhouette.
"Two things have happened. There is the recognition on the part of exegetes and Biblical theologians, including a constantly growing number of Roman Catholics, that one should not speak of Trinitarianism in the New Testament without serious qualification. There is also the closely parallel recognition on the part of historians of dogma and systematic theologians that when one does speak of an unqualified Trinitarianism, one has moved from the period of Christian origins to, say, the last quadrant of the 4th century. It was only then that what might be called the definitive Trinitarian dogma 'one God in three Persons' became thoroughly assimilated into Christian life and thought.
"The formula itself does not reflect the immediate consciousness of the period of origins; it was a product of 3 centuries of doctrinal development."
Would someone like to explain to me why 3 centuries of developing the Trinity doctrine should override what Christ and his Apostles taught (which was nothing even hinting at 3 Persons in one God)? Why was it necessary for the Church to add two more Persons to the "Godhead" even though, as the article here asserts, that original Christian teaching did not include such a thing?
.
lifeisgood
New member
Spoiler
Quite simple:
Because YOU, and they, WRESTLE with holy writ to their own destruction:
2 Corinthians 13:14 — 14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
Luke 1:35 — The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.
Matthew 3:16-17 — 16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
John 14:16-17 — 16 And I (Jesus Christ) will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
Romans 14:17-18 — 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.
Luke 3:21-22 — 21 When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened 22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”
(I guess Peter did not know what he was talking about either) :nono:
1 Peter 1:1-2 — 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,
2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
(I guess Paul was out of your league)
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 — 21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
====
John 10:30-36 — 30 I and the Father are one.” 31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” 33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods” ’? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?
If Jesus came today, the modern world would crucify Him all over again, exactly as you just did.
If Luke, Paul, Peter, etc. were to come today, the modern world would kill them also, exactly as you just did.
keypurr
Well-known member
You have only proved that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Holy Spirit is the power of God.
Thank you for proving our point.
Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app
KingdomRose
New member
Your pathetic attempt to show the pagan Trinity with the verses you quoted is quite laughable. You obviously didn't read my post, because you didn't respond intelligently or with dignity. How on earth can you accuse me of such nonsense when you contradict yourself while trying to prove a silly idea that Jesus claimed to be God? He is "one" with the Father just like his disciples are "one" with him and the Father. Haven't you read John 17:20-23 lately? YOU would kill Jesus because he would say even today that his Father was the only true God and He isn't a Trinity! You sad, confused little Pharisee. Do you really believe that the Pharisees were being truthful when they accused Jesus of claiming to be God? Ha! Then he immediately corrected them, which you posted in the citing of John 10:36 above! Don't you understand what you read? Your nonsense is so far out in left field that if Jesus was on Earth today he wouldn't have any idea what you were talking about. In fact, most of the churches such as your group, whatever it is, are going down into destruction very swiftly, like a millstone is around their necks.
To them hos belong the ho patriarchs pat?r, and kai from ek them hos by kata human descent sarx came the ho Christ Christos , · ho who ho is eimi God theos over epi all pas , blessed eulog?tos for eis all ho time ai?n . Amen am?n . - Romans 9:5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans9:5&version=MOUNCE
of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. - Romans 9:5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans9:5&version=NKJV
Christ, the Son of God, is God.
lifeisgood
New member
Another one who prefers their doctrine instead of the Word of God.
If for YOU, Jesus Christ is not what the Bible says He is, the Bible says Jesus Christ indeed is God, then you are still in your sins, for there is none other that can save YOU but God, and the only one God sent to remove your sin is God.
Claiming God as Father or to say ‘I am God's Son’ was to claim to be God and the Jewish leaders knew Jesus Christ was affirming He was God. No wonder they took stones.
YOUR loss if you do not believe in God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) for your salvation is in your own hands instead of in God's hand.
If you are interested:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Trinity/t3jd1.html
You need to read for understanding.
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