The Trinity

The Trinity


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genuineoriginal

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Christ rejectors: Ben Masada, CherubRam, csuguy, Elia, genuineoriginal, HisServant, jamie, keypurr, KingdomRose, Krsto, meshak, oatmeal, OCTOBER23, SabathMoon

You are lying.

I do not reject Christ.
I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

John 20:31
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.​


Can you truly state that you believe Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, the anointed one promised in the Old Testament?

Can you truly state that you believe Jesus is in fact the only begotten Son of God?
 

keypurr

Well-known member
You are lying.



I do not reject Christ.

I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.


John 20:31

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.​




Can you truly state that you believe Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, the anointed one promised in the Old Testament?



Can you truly state that you believe Jesus is in fact the only begotten Son of God?


He does not understand the difference between God and Christ.

He has been led by the nose to see only his church's views.
 

Bright Raven

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He does not understand the difference between God and Christ.

He has been led by the nose to see only his church's views.

Who created the World according to Colossians 1:16.

Colossians 1:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
 

genuineoriginal

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Who created the World according to Colossians 1:16.

Colossians 1:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Put the verse in context and check my earlier post on the verse to see whether it is highlighted in YELLOW to refer to the Father or highlighted in GREEN to refer to the Son.

Colossians 1:12-17
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

An argument can be successfully made that everything I highlighted in YELLOW refers to the Father and everything highlighted in GREEN refers to the Son.
 

Bright Raven

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Put the verse in context and check my earlier post on the verse to see whether it is highlighted in YELLOW to refer to the Father or highlighted in GREEN to refer to the Son.
Your exegesis stinks.

Verse 16 state conclusively that the Lord Jesus Christ is not the creature but the very Creator. The verse says that all things were created not only by Him, but through Him and for Him. He is the Person of the Godhead through whom the creative act was performed. Also all things were created for Him. He is the one for whom all things were created. I will take the commentary of the Believer's Bible Commentary above yours anyday.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Your exegesis stinks.

Verse 16 state conclusively that the Lord Jesus Christ is not the creature but the very Creator. The verse says that all things were created not only by Him, but through Him and for Him.
No, because verse 15 states that Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature, then verse 16 speaks of the creator.
Jesus cannot be both the firstborn of every creature as well as the creator.


I will take the commentary of the Believer's Bible Commentary above yours anyday.
You can take the commentary over the Bible any time you choose to, it means you are not adhering to Sola Scriptura, but choosing to be swayed by the doctrines of men instead.
 

Bright Raven

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No, because verse 15 states that Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature, then verse 16 speaks of the creator.
Jesus cannot be both the firstborn of every creature as well as the creator.



You can take the commentary over the Bible any time you choose to, it means you are not adhering to Sola Scriptura, but choosing to be swayed by the doctrines of men instead.

Sorry, but your interpretation is incorrect. :poly:

2 Timothy 2:15King James Version (KJV)

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
 

csuguy

Well-known member
The image and representation of something is necessarily not that which is being represented.
 

Lazy afternoon

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Colossians 1:12-17
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

An argument can be successfully made that everything I highlighted in YELLOW refers to the Father and everything highlighted in GREEN refers to the Son.


Rev.ch s 4 and 5 verify that truth.

Rev 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.


Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book
out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Rev 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
Rev 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. Rev 5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.





and also Heb. chs 1 and 2

Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: Heb 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
Heb 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.


Heb 2:5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
Heb 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make ]the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

IF any do not believe that, they follow the antichrists.

LA
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Who created the World according to Colossians 1:16.

Colossians 1:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

God created all by his Son, see verse 15, you love to skip by it all the time.
 

Bright Raven

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God created all by his Son, see verse 15, you love to skip by it all the time.

All verse 15 gives is Jesus position as the firstborn over all creation. Is He not the firstborn from the dead never to die again?
 

KingdomRose

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State your source. And just for grins, I have a problem with NWT. They inserted the article before God in John 1:1. Is there any other translation that does that?

Please go through this slowly. It seems that you can't get it with a cursory reading.

GREEK. DOES. NOT. HAVE. INDEFINITE. ARTICLES. IT. ONLY. HAS. DEFINITE. ONES. , TO. TELL. THE. DIFFERENCE. BETWEEN. A. SUPREME. OR. GREATER. PERSON. OR. THING.

If you looked at the Greek/English Interlinear versions you would see the word-for-word translation of John 1:1 looks like this:

"in beginning was the word and the word was with the god, and god was the word"

You see the DEFINITE article before "god" in the first instance. That refers to THE Almighty, Most High God. The second instance of "god" does not have the definite article, so any Greek reader would understand that to mean that this god was NOT the Almighty Most High God.

But translating it to English demands other rules that do not apply in Greek. English DOES have indefinite articles. So we place in an English sentence those articles that will give us the correct understanding. In Greek they would understand "snoopy is dog" without articles. They would know that "snoopy" was NOT the superior dog. But in English we don't know that without articles. Therefore it is proper to place an indefinite article in front of the "god" that has no definite article.

The NWT is not the only version that does this, as I have noted before. The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson does this. If Bart Ehrman translated a version himself to publish, he would write "and the word was a god." So would Jason BeDuhn of Northern Arizona University, and Anthony Buzzard & Charles Hunting of International Scholars Publications. Also, 21st Century New Testament renders John 1:1 the same way: "In a beginning was the Word and the Word was with the God and the Word was a god."

So....an article was added only because the rules of grammar are different for Greek and for English.

Read this again, slowly, if you don't get it.:confused:
 

KingdomRose

New member
Who created the World according to Colossians 1:16.

Colossians 1:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Jesus was GIVEN the power to create BY HIS FATHER. That is why Paul words it this way in his letter to the Corinthians:

"For us there is but one God, the Father, FROM WHOM are all things and we exist for Him." (I Corinthians 8:6, NASB)

He goes on to say, after making it a point to say that all things come from the Father...and that means all power as well, that Jesus was the agent BY WHICH the Father made everything in the universe.

Pretty clear and simple to me. The Father (Jehovah) is above all and the Source of all power and authority. He GAVE Jesus the power and authority to create.


:wave: Hello-o!
 

meshak

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Jesus was GIVEN the power to create BY HIS FATHER. That is why Paul words it this way in his letter to the Corinthians:

"For us there is but one God, the Father, FROM WHOM are all things and we exist for Him." (I Corinthians 8:6, NASB)

He goes on to say, after making it a point to say that all things come from the Father...and that means all power as well, that Jesus was the agent BY WHICH the Father made everything in the universe.

Pretty clear and simple to me. The Father (Jehovah) is above all and the Source of all power and authority. He GAVE Jesus the power and authority to create.


:wave: Hello-o!

I don't know why they refuse to acknowledge this simple and clear fact.
 

KingdomRose

New member
Your exegesis stinks.

Verse 16 state conclusively that the Lord Jesus Christ is not the creature but the very Creator. The verse says that all things were created not only by Him, but through Him and for Him. He is the Person of the Godhead through whom the creative act was performed. Also all things were created for Him. He is the one for whom all things were created. I will take the commentary of the Believer's Bible Commentary above yours anyday.

YOUR reasoning, if you can call it that, is what stinks. Obviously Jesus was created because he is called the FIRST BORN. Of creation! Of all things created! (The very first thing created, and by Jehovah Himself.) Hello-o! Then....Jehovah granted Jesus the power to create FOR him. Not too hard to understand.

:dizzy: Or maybe it is for you.
 

Bright Raven

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Jesus was GIVEN the power to create BY HIS FATHER. That is why Paul words it this way in his letter to the Corinthians:

"For us there is but one God, the Father, FROM WHOM are all things and we exist for Him." (I Corinthians 8:6, NASB)

He goes on to say, after making it a point to say that all things come from the Father...and that means all power as well, that Jesus was the agent BY WHICH the Father made everything in the universe.

Pretty clear and simple to me. The Father (Jehovah) is above all and the Source of all power and authority. He GAVE Jesus the power and authority to create.

:wave: Hello-o!

Do you really think that I believe in what you say when your cult changes scripture. Yes Jesus had the power to create. He is God. What would you expect? You conveniently only quote part of the verse. Here it is in full;

1 Corinthians 8:6 King James Version (KJV)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Now would you care to explain;

John 1:1-3 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:10-11 King James Version (KJV)

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.


And don't forget to add;

Genesis 1:1 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
 

Bright Raven

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YOUR reasoning, if you can call it that, is what stinks. Obviously Jesus was created because he is called the FIRST BORN. Of creation! Of all things created! (The very first thing created, and by Jehovah Himself.) Hello-o! Then....Jehovah granted Jesus the power to create FOR him. Not too hard to understand.

:dizzy: Or maybe it is for you.

Already answered. See post 852. You need to catch up and take notes :poly:

2 Timothy 2:15 King James Version (KJV)

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
 
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