The Trinity

[Bright Raven]

There are many questionable doctrines in the Christian Church.
That is why we have the Bible so we can check it whenever a doctrine is questionable.


The Bible states that God created the heaven and the earth.
Science claims that the universe is many billions of light years across and is composed of nothing but vibrations at the quantum level.
What makes you think you are smart enough to understand the nature of a God that can create a universe like that?


This one verse is about as close as the Bible comes to telling us what God's nature is:

John 4:24 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.​

Nowhere does the Bible state that we are to think God is Triune.


Being able to think outside the scriptures does not make your doctrine Biblical.

There are many questionable doctrines in the Christian Church.
That is why we have the Bible so we can check it whenever a doctrine is questionable.

The doctrines of the Church are not questionable. They would not be doctrines if they were questionable.

The Bible states that God created the heaven and the earth.
Science claims that the universe is many billions of light years across and is composed of nothing but vibrations at the quantum level.
What makes you think you are smart enough to understand the nature of a God that can create a universe like that?

So, when I speak about his nature, take into consideration his attributes.

This one verse is about as close as the Bible comes to telling us what God's nature is:

John 4:24 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.​

Nowhere does the Bible state that we are to think God is Triune.

Look at omnipotence, omnipresence, omniscience etc. The bible teaches the Triunity of God. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean that others don't. Check out the poll. :duh:

Being able to think outside the scriptures does not make your doctrine Biblical

I did not say outside the scriptures, which shows the comprehension you have for the written word. I said outside the box.

 

[genuineoriginal]

The doctrines of the Church are not questionable. They would not be doctrines if they were questionable.

If they were scriptural, they would not be questionable.

So, when I speak about his nature, take into consideration his attributes.

Look at omnipotence, omnipresence, omniscience etc.

The Bible often mentions that God is almighty.
The other two are questionable and are based more on Greek Philosophy statements of what God should be rather than Bible verses.

The bible teaches the Triunity of God. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean that others don't. Check out the poll. :duh:

The Bible does not teach the Trinity doctrine, and it doesn't matter how many people claim it does, it won't change that fact.
The Trinity doctrine took 300 years to become formulated simply because the Bible never taught it.

I did not say outside the scriptures, which shows the comprehension you have for the written word. I said outside the box.

I said outside the scriptures, because that is more important than ignoring the scriptures to think outside the box. Your objection shows that you think being able to think outside of what scripture states is more important than being able to understand what scripture states.

 

[Bright Raven]

If they were scriptural, they would not be questionable.


The Bible often mentions that God is almighty.
The other two are questionable and are based more on Greek Philosophy statements of what God should be rather than Bible verses.


The Bible does not teach the Trinity doctrine, and it doesn't matter how many people claim it does, it won't change that fact.
The Trinity doctrine took 300 years to become formulated simply because the Bible never taught it.


I said outside the scriptures, because that is more important than ignoring the scriptures to think outside the box. Your objection shows that you think being able to think outside of what scripture states is more important than being able to understand what scripture states.

1. They are questionable to you, not to the Church.

2. Gods attributes are not questionable.

3. Just because you do not accept the doctrine, does not be it is not truth. Wake up. Spend a little time looking for it and come to know the truth,

4. Baloney, you don't have to ignore the scriptures to think outside the box. Read the book of Jude, 1 chapter. Quite an eyeopener.

 

[genuineoriginal]

1. They are questionable to you, not to the Church.

The Trinity doctrine is questionable because of people like you that claim the Bible teaches that doctrine (as opposed to supporting it) despite all evidence to the contrary.

_____
Does the Bible Support the Idea of the Trinity?

While the word Trinity is not found in the Bible, is the concept of the Trinity taught clearly in it?
The Encyclopedia of Religion Vol. 15 1987 admits: 'Theologians today are in agreement that the Hebrew Bible does not contain a doctrine of the Trinity.'
The New Catholic Encyclopedia: 'The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not taught in the Old Testament.'
The Encyclopedia of Religion says: 'Theologians agree that the New Testament also does not contain an explicit doctrine of the Trinity.'
The Encyclopedia Britannica 1976 observes: Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament.'
Protestant theologian Karl Barth (as quoted in The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology 1976) similarly states: 'The New Testament does not contain the developed doctrine of the Trinity. The Bible lacks the express declaration the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are of equal essence.'
_____
​

2. Gods attributes are not questionable.

God knows what His attributes are.
The only one of the three you listed that God said about Himself is being Almighty.
That makes the rest questionable.

3. Just because you do not accept the doctrine, does not be it is not truth. Wake up. Spend a little time looking for it and come to know the truth,

The truth is the truth, whether you or I accept it or whether you or I reject it.
Like your rejection of the truth that the Bible does not teach the Trinity doctrine will not change the fact that it does not.
If the Trinity doctrine is the truth, then it is the truth whether the Bible teaches it or not.

 

[Bright Raven]

The Trinity doctrine is questionable because of people like you that claim the Bible teaches that doctrine (as opposed to supporting it) despite all evidence to the contrary.

_____
Does the Bible Support the Idea of the Trinity?

While the word Trinity is not found in the Bible, is the concept of the Trinity taught clearly in it?
The Encyclopedia of Religion Vol. 15 1987 admits: 'Theologians today are in agreement that the Hebrew Bible does not contain a doctrine of the Trinity.'
The New Catholic Encyclopedia: 'The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not taught in the Old Testament.'
The Encyclopedia of Religion says: 'Theologians agree that the New Testament also does not contain an explicit doctrine of the Trinity.'
The Encyclopedia Britannica 1976 observes: Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament.'
Protestant theologian Karl Barth (as quoted in The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology 1976) similarly states: 'The New Testament does not contain the developed doctrine of the Trinity. The Bible lacks the express declaration the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are of equal essence.'
_____
​

God knows what His attributes are.
The only one of the three you listed that God said about Himself is being Almighty.
That makes the rest questionable.


The truth is the truth, whether you or I accept it or whether you or I reject it.
Like your rejection of the truth that the Bible does not teach the Trinity doctrine will not change the fact that it does not.
If the Trinity doctrine is the truth, then it is the truth whether the Bible teaches it or not.

1. What is this;

Matthew 28:19 New King James Version (NKJV)

19 Go therefore[a] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

2. Does God have the attributes I listed. If not you are unable to discern the truth of the text of the scriptures.

3. The Bible teaches the doctrine whether you believe it or not.

 

[genuineoriginal]

1. What is this;

Matthew 28:19 New King James Version (NKJV)

19 Go therefore[a] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

_____
Matthew 28:19 Is Genuine

This verse is not particularly useful for Trinitarian defense as it theoretically could support any view -- modalism, even tritheism, could be permitted from this verse, for it only lists the members of the Triune Godhead with absolutely no explanation as to their exact relationship.
_____​

2. Does God have the attributes I listed. If not you are unable to discern the truth of the text of the scriptures.

Genesis 17:1 1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.​

As for the apparent omniscience and omnipresence of God, these supposed attributes can be explained solely under God's omnipotence.
Your lack of ability to read the Bible without constantly altering what you read according to the doctrines you have been taught is not helping your argument any.

3. The Bible teaches the doctrine whether you believe it or not.

Unfortunately for your argument, the Bible does not teach the doctrine of the Trinity, and you can't make it teach the doctrine by simply claiming that it does.

 

[Bright Raven]

_____
Matthew 28:19 Is Genuine

This verse is not particularly useful for Trinitarian defense as it theoretically could support any view -- modalism, even tritheism, could be permitted from this verse, for it only lists the members of the Triune Godhead with absolutely no explanation as to their exact relationship.
_____​

Genesis 17:1 1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.​

As for the apparent omniscience and omnipresence of God, these supposed attributes can be explained solely under God's omnipotence.
Your lack of ability to read the Bible without constantly altering what you read according to the doctrines you have been taught is not helping your argument any.


Unfortunately for your argument, the Bible does not teach the doctrine of the Trinity, and you can't make it teach the doctrine by simply claiming that it does.

So you admit the existence of a triune Godhead. Hmmm.. Defense Complete. Also see;

1 John 5:7New King James Version (NKJV)

7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

And don't tell me the Johannine Comma is an addition to scripture. If it were added, it should have been removed. You can cut it out of your bible if you wish or just ignore it.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You do not believe in the Trinity, therefore, it is doubtful that you believe even if shown. So why waste the time.

Christians believe in the Trinity, non-Christians don't. You must believe in the nature of god and who He is. Who are you to tell Him that as a single essence that He can't exist is three persons. What does that tell you?

G.O. has somehow been able to magnify his imaginary significance?
The odds were against it? None the less, he's been able to seem,
almost as bright as the genius poster Meshak the Magnificent.

 

[genuineoriginal]

So you admit the existence of a triune Godhead.

The scripture does not teach a triune Godhead, and your verse "could support any view -- modalism, even tritheism" as stated in the quote.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Grosnick Marowbe has somehow been able to magnify his imaginary significance?
The odds were against it? None the less, he's been able to seem,
almost as bright as the genius poster Grosnick Marowbe

Luke 6:31 31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.​

 

[Bright Raven]

The scripture does not teach a triune Godhead, and your verse "could support any view -- modalism, even tritheism" as stated in the quote.

You still accept the existence of the Godhead. Definition (Dictionary.com)
Godhead
[god-hed]
Spell Syllables
Word Origin
noun
1.
the essential being of God; the Supreme Being.
the Holy Trinity of God the Father, Christ the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

 

[patrick jane]

The scripture does not teach a triune Godhead, and your verse "could support any view -- modalism, even tritheism" as stated in the quote.

Colossians 2:8 KJV - Colossians 2:9-10 KJV -

 

[glorydaz]

Unfortunately for your argument, the Bible does not teach the doctrine of the Trinity, and you can't make it teach the doctrine by simply claiming that it does.

Have you thought about why it may not be as clear as it could be?


Is it possible that God expects us to recognize Him by faith as the only Saviour? That we have to look to the Lord Jesus Christ in order to find the ONE true God Almighty?

What is it that separates all the cults from true believers except the recognition that Jesus is God? What He then reveals of Himself and the Holy Spirit leave us with a clear understanding. One the world cannot see until they believe.

Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isaiah 45:15
Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

Isaiah 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.​

 

[Nihilo]

the failure of Trinitarians to come up with any scriptures that actually teach the doctrine of the Trinity, as opposed to finding verses that can be used to support the doctrine of the Trinity.

The failure of Protestant Trinitarians, you mean.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Have you thought about why it may not be as clear as it could be?

Yes, I have.
I have looked into the Trinity doctrine, where it comes from, the Biblical support for it, the Biblical support for the major opposing views, and explored why the Trinity doctrine is not taught in scripture.

The reason it is an extra-Biblical doctrine instead of a Biblical doctrine is because God wants only the Father worshiped as God without any confusion.

Acts 24:14-15 14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: 15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

The failure of Protestant Trinitarians, you mean.

No, the Catholic Trinitarians are guilty of innocent blood because of the Trinity doctrine.

 

[Nihilo]

No, the Catholic Trinitarians are guilty of innocent blood because of the Trinity doctrine.

:AMR: Aw, now you're just changing the subject! "Innocent blood" . . . geez!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Yes, I have.
I have looked into the Trinity doctrine, where it comes from, the Biblical support for it, the Biblical support for the major opposing views, and explored why the Trinity doctrine is not taught in scripture.

The reason it is an extra-Biblical doctrine instead of a Biblical doctrine is because God wants only the Father worshiped as God without any confusion.

Acts 24:14-15 14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: 15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.​

We're so lucky, you don't have the final say on all things Biblical.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Thanks for changing my post with my name instead of yours.
You're a wee bit petty aren't ya?

 

[glorydaz]

Yes, I have.
I have looked into the Trinity doctrine, where it comes from, the Biblical support for it, the Biblical support for the major opposing views, and explored why the Trinity doctrine is not taught in scripture.

The reason it is an extra-Biblical doctrine instead of a Biblical doctrine is because God wants only the Father worshiped as God without any confusion.

Acts 24:14-15 14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: 15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.​

But that doesn't say only the Father is to be worshipped as God.

The Bible makes it clear that Christ is the one to whom every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is LORD....Lord of the living and the dead.

Romans 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.​

One God....and ONE Saviour....and one Judge of the living and the dead.

Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. 24 Surely, shall one say, in the Lord have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.​