The Trinity

The Trinity

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Rosenritter

Rosenritter

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NWL said:
Scripture clearly states no man has seen God or can see God, you deny this by claiming God was seen by Abraham.

As I've made out to you previously I hold that the three persons who appeared to Abraham were representatives of Jehovah, with one of those three persons being a direct spokesperson for Jehovah when speaking to Abraham.

One cannot accept that Abraham literally saw God when scripture clearly and unquestionably states no man HAS or CAN see God. Texts that say such things cannot be understood any other way expect for how they read on face value. However there are clear examples in the bible where people speak on behalf of their sender AS the sender themselves. Since you cannot have to opposing statement that are both correct, with the "no man has seen God" being an ultimate truth, the appearance of God to persons in the OT must be in relation to representatives of God, this is the only possible explanation for the bible to NOT contradict itself.

(1 Timothy 6:16) "..the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal might. Amen.."
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You are already contradicting yourself, for just earlier you were saying that Job had seen God, with his eyes, in the flesh. So when you use your argument above to say that the LORD did not visibly appear to Abraham, you are being rather inconsistent.

Genesis 32:28-30 KJV
(28) And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
(29) And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
(30) And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.


Let's not forget that Moses saw God in at least two different senses. God talked with Moses face to face, as one would a friend, and then accepted Moses's request to see him even further. Your argument is suspiciously avoiding all of these places that we have already discussed. The answer is that when Jesus says that "no man has seen God" he is speaking in a different sense of the word see, or in a different application.

Job 19:25-27 KJV
(25) For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
(26) And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
(27) Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.


You thought it preferable to avoid the meaning of this passage before, by claiming that these were two separate unrelated prophesies, breaking apart the Hebrew into a disjointed broken set. I thought I'd share something that came up in an unrelated conversation on Joshua's Long Day posted by Wick Stick.

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-Does-it-mandate-a-Geocentric-Cosmology/page2

Biblical Hebrew has only about 30K words. For the sake of comparison, Modern English has about 170K. Because of the relative dearth of words, it is rare for a Hebrew word to be precise. Most/all words are overloaded. That is, each word has multiple meanings.

Now, extrapolate that to the level of sentences and paragraphs. What happens when I create a sentence using 6 words, and all those words have 3-4 meanings each? For a more authentic experience, also remove all spaces and punctuation marks - those weren't invented yet. How clear is that paragraph?

It turns out that it is entirely clear - once we solve the jigsaw puzzle. First one must figure out where to separate the words. Then let them give each other context, and play process of elimination among the various definitions of the words, and a picture emerges.

But there's a wrinkle. It turns out that it's a quantum jigsaw puzzle. Put it together and you can get a precise meaning. But put it together again using different assumptions, and you can get a different but nonetheless precise meaning, different than the first meaning; also a valid outcome.

This makes written communication (and particularly translation) challenging. Because the authors were not idiots, they found a way to remove the ambiguity (well...when they wanted to). It's called parallelism, and it works on the same principle as a mathematical checksum. The author writes two sentences that use different words, but have the same overall meaning. The reader understands that if his interpretation of the two sentences isn't the same, then he did it wrong.
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Translating into this problem, when your interpretation has to bend to make the parallel sentences have different meaning, then you've done something wrong. That isn't how the bible is written. Job knew that his Redeemer liveth, and that He shall stand in the latter day upon the earth, and that he would see this with his own eyes, and though the worms consume his body from within, yet in the flesh would he see GOD.

Job's Redeemer shall stand in the latter day upon the earth, and thus he shall see God, literally, with his own fleshly eyes.
 
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lifeisgood

lifeisgood

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Someone has said it this way: If you try to explain the Trinity, you will lose your mind. But if you deny it, you will lose your soul.
 
JudgeRightly

JudgeRightly

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Nihilo said:
I'm not Catholic (unlike you), and I believe in the RESURRECTION of the Lord Jesus from the dead. Romans 10:9 (KJV)

There is One temple, there are not billions of temples.
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Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s. - 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians6:19-20&version=NKJV

No, you would only be quoting Sacred Scripture if that's what you were doing, but you add in your own commentary to what the scriptures say. The only ones who can validly do that are the official teachers of the Church, not you, not me, or anybody else.
Whatever, you rebellious, naughty Catholic.
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God's Truth

God's Truth

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Nihilo said:
I'm not Catholic (unlike you), and I believe in the RESURRECTION of the Lord Jesus from the dead. Romans 10:9 (KJV)
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Lol Show where I do not believe in the resurrection of Jesus.
The truth is far from you.

Nihilo said:
There is One temple, there are not billions of temples.
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The saved are the temple.

1 Corinthians 6:19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

1 Corinthians 3:16
Do you not know that you yourselves are God's temple, and that God's Spirit dwells in you?

Nihilo said:
No, you would only be quoting Sacred Scripture if that's what you were doing, but you add in your own commentary to what the scriptures say. The only ones who can validly do that are the official teachers of the Church, not you, not me, or anybody else.
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We are not to follow tradition or church laws or any human rules as authority for the church (Matthew 15:1-14; Colossians 2:8; Galatians 1:6-9; Proverbs 14:12; 2 John 9-11; Jeremiah 10:23).

God’s word is understandable even to a young child. How from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus, see 2 Timothy 3:15. We do not need elected men to interpret God’s word for us, but we are to check the scriptures to check out those claiming to be teachers, see Mark 7:14; 2 Timothy 3:15, 16, 17; John 20:30, 31; Acts 17:11; and, Psalm 119:105. For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that, as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus.
 
Rosenritter

Rosenritter

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lifeisgood said:
Rosenritter, God is Father, Son, Holy Spirit. That is what the Trinity/Triunity of God means.

Father — Galatians 1:1; Son — John 20:28; Spirit — Acts 5:3-4

Jesus' baptism—Matthew 3:13-17 (voice of the Father, Son baptized, Spirit descending like a dove).

Salvation—1 Peter 1:2 (chosen by the Father, sanctified by the Spirit, sprinkled with the blood of Jesus).

Sanctification—2 Corinthians 13:14 (grace of the Lord Jesus, love of God, fellowship of the Holy Spirit).

Christian Baptism—Matthew 28:19 (baptized in one name, yet three Persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

Prayer—Ephesians 3:14-21 (strengthened by his Spirit, know the love of Christ, filled with the fullness of God).

Christian Growth—2 Thessalonians 2:13 (chosen by God, loved by the Lord, sanctified by the Spirit).

What else would I need. It is not a question.
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This was supposed to be a softball question. I had asked, "Would you tell us what that means to you? Does it help you keep his commandments of Love God and Love thy Neighbor, to exercise faith and repentance, to recognize Jesus as both Lord and Christ?"

James 2:18-20 KJV
(18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
(19) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
(20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

What more would you need? To find a way to apply that declaration to where it translates into Love God and Love thy neighbor.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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lifeisgood said:
Which when asked, you, gt, have yourself declared that you do NOT OBEY Jesus' commandments, even though you proudly, presumptuously, arrogantly, then simply go ahead and repeat your mantra that I, gt, OBEY ALL of Jesus' commandments when you say emphatically that you do not OBEY Jesus' commandments. Talk about falsehood.

You are a dangerous preacher, gt, for you, gt, have a mixture of The Truth with your UNtruth.
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Hahahahaha It is dangerous to Satan that I preach obedience to Christ; and dangerous to those who hold to false doctrines.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Nihilo said:
We together are the temple. No single Christian is the temple, or a temple; we are the temple together, collectively. We are each a stone of the One temple.
So you're in league with Gt then.

I teach what the Church's official teachers teach. You can always look it up, what I teach, as I'm not making up stuff.
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Now that you have scriptures saying the saved are the temple, will you leave your false beliefs?
 
lifeisgood

lifeisgood

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God's Truth said:
Hahahahaha It is dangerous to Satan that I preach obedience to Christ; and dangerous to those who hold to false doctrines.
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Satan is laughing in his boots by you telling the ones who are already his that they are to obey Jesus' commandments as if they could.

Satan knows that when a UNbeliever belonging to him HEARS the glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ and His finished/completed work on the Cross of Calvary for their salvation, many will be snatched out of Satan's hand, and Satan shakes in his boots.
 
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