The Trinity

[Rosenritter]

What does 1 John 5:7 mean exactly to you? :think:

It means exactly what it says, "These three are one." That is, these names are in actuality, in truth, the same.

I know this will be useless for the non-reader community here at TOL, but it does not say "these three agree as one" or "the one is three." Rather, it in a matter-of-fact statement (to illustrate another point) says that the Father, the Word, the Holy Ghost is the same God, the One God. The same God that created the heavens and the earth by himself (Isaiah 44:24) whom we also knew as Jesus when he came in the flesh (see John chapter 1).

With the scope of the whole Bible, there would be plenty of opportunity for it to say "The One God is three persons" if that was what God wanted us to teach and believe. There's plenty of evidence where it tells us "there is one God" and plenty more where it assures us that Jesus is our God, our God come in the flesh. So the absence of clear statement of "God is three persons" should tell us something.

In fact, we have a statement to the contrary. "These three are one".... John could have picked more names or titles and had "these five are one" but that wouldn't pair well with "water, blood, and spirit" of the verse eight, would it?

 

[Lon]

It means exactly what it says, "These three are one." That is, these names are in actuality, in truth, the same.

I know this will be useless for the non-reader community here at TOL, but it does not say "these three agree as one" or "the one is three." Rather, it in a matter-of-fact statement (to illustrate another point) says that the Father, the Word, the Holy Ghost is the same God, the One God. The same God that created the heavens and the earth by himself (Isaiah 44:24) whom we also knew as Jesus when he came in the flesh (see John chapter 1).

With the scope of the whole Bible, there would be plenty of opportunity for it to say "The One God is three persons" if that was what God wanted us to teach and believe. There's plenty of evidence where it tells us "there is one God" and plenty more where it assures us that Jesus is our God, our God come in the flesh. So the absence of clear statement of "God is three persons" should tell us something.

In fact, we have a statement to the contrary. "These three are one".... John could have picked more names or titles and had "these five are one" but that wouldn't pair well with "water, blood, and spirit" of the verse eight, would it?

I believe I understand. Would I be correct to say Modalist or One-ness Pentecostal?

 

[marhig]

It means exactly what it says, "These three are one." That is, these names are in actuality, in truth, the same.

I know this will be useless for the non-reader community here at TOL, but it does not say "these three agree as one" or "the one is three." Rather, it in a matter-of-fact statement (to illustrate another point) says that the Father, the Word, the Holy Ghost is the same God, the One God. The same God that created the heavens and the earth by himself (Isaiah 44:24) whom we also knew as Jesus when he came in the flesh (see John chapter 1).

With the scope of the whole Bible, there would be plenty of opportunity for it to say "The One God is three persons" if that was what God wanted us to teach and believe. There's plenty of evidence where it tells us "there is one God" and plenty more where it assures us that Jesus is our God, our God come in the flesh. So the absence of clear statement of "God is three persons" should tell us something.

In fact, we have a statement to the contrary. "These three are one".... John could have picked more names or titles and had "these five are one" but that wouldn't pair well with "water, blood, and spirit" of the verse eight, would it?

Hi! Are you saying that Jesus is the father?

And, if only the three are one and they are all God, then I have a question, how does the following work?

John 17

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

 

[glorydaz]

It means exactly what it says, "These three are one." That is, these names are in actuality, in truth, the same.

I know this will be useless for the non-reader community here at TOL, but it does not say "these three agree as one" or "the one is three." Rather, it in a matter-of-fact statement (to illustrate another point) says that the Father, the Word, the Holy Ghost is the same God, the One God. The same God that created the heavens and the earth by himself (Isaiah 44:24) whom we also knew as Jesus when he came in the flesh (see John chapter 1).

So, you're really focused on the ONE GOD, which is absolutely correct. There is but ONE GOD.

But, why does God say this? To whom is God speaking?

Gen. 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:​

And why did Jesus say He came out from God, and came forth from the Father?

John 16:27-28 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.​

And why does Jesus say of the Father, "we will come unto him, and make our abode with him" in this verse? How can that be if the Father and the Son are the same? And how can Jesus send the Comforter (Holy Spirit) if they are the same?

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.​

 

[glorydaz]

I understand that you may have trouble reading, but what part of anything I just said resembled "Unitarian?"

No, I usually don't have trouble reading, but I do have trouble with these labels. Excuse me if I used the wrong one.

 

[glorydaz]

I believe I understand. Would I be correct to say Modalist or One-ness Pentecostal?

Hope you don't get this wrong. I did. (You know what I think of labels).

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

It means exactly what it says, "These three are one." That is, these names are in actuality, in truth, the same.

I know this will be useless for the non-reader community here at TOL, but it does not say "these three agree as one" or "the one is three." Rather, it in a matter-of-fact statement (to illustrate another point) says that the Father, the Word, the Holy Ghost is the same God, the One God. The same God that created the heavens and the earth by himself (Isaiah 44:24) whom we also knew as Jesus when he came in the flesh (see John chapter 1).

With the scope of the whole Bible, there would be plenty of opportunity for it to say "The One God is three persons" if that was what God wanted us to teach and believe. There's plenty of evidence where it tells us "there is one God" and plenty more where it assures us that Jesus is our God, our God come in the flesh. So the absence of clear statement of "God is three persons" should tell us something.

In fact, we have a statement to the contrary. "These three are one".... John could have picked more names or titles and had "these five are one" but that wouldn't pair well with "water, blood, and spirit" of the verse eight, would it?

I'm not making a snap judgment to your stance yet... I know this seems out of place... but... what do Romans 4:4f and Ephesians 2:8f ... and 2 Cor. 12:9 mean to you?

This is not a trick question... it is simply to assist in my understanding of your stance.

 

[God's Truth]

Even the devils believe.

Even the devils believe and do something, they shudder.

Faith alone is dead.

 

[God's Truth]

Take it up with Paul. Romans 10:9 (KJV)

Luke 6:46

 

[Nihilo]

Luke 6:46

You idiot.

 

[glorydaz]

Even the devils believe and do something, they shudder.

Faith alone is dead.

Salvation is by grace through faith.

Does that look like faith is alone to you? :chew:




We access that grace by faith.

Does that look like faith is alone to you? :chew:


Now....move along.

 

[God's Truth]

The Trinity doctrine explains the "ousia" (Being) of God.

Go ahead and explain that. Explain what the essence of God is.

The trinity doctrine says the Father and Son and Holy Spirit are the same 'essence'. When I ask trinitarians if that same essence is Spirit, they say no.
Well, I do not know you who you asked about these matters, but the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all the same Being (ousia).

Are you really going to just keep saying that they are a Being?
Explain what their Being is and how they are different, according to the trinity doctrine.

"Light" is created. The Godhead is uncreated.

What? The scripture says plainly that God is light.

1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

Which means your belief are heretical for lack of defense, for the Trinity has been well defended by orthodox Christianity for hundreds of years, even if not infallibly explained.

Your beliefs are heretical. You even went against the scripture that says God is light.

The RCC did not invent Trinitarian doctrine, but Augustine (by the providence of God) did a valiant job of defining it and defending what the body of the faithful, have always believed.

You just admitted that it is not explainable. Since you cannot explain it, you cannot defend it.

It is impossible for a Christian to deny the Triune Godhead, for such is founded upon the entire revelation of Holy Scripture.

Correctly grasping and teaching the doctrine, is another thing . . .

It is the infinite Truth, that cannot be totally expressed, nor explained, through finite minds or through mutable languages.

It is Truth that is only held through the agency of faith, so that belief in the Trinity proves to be nothing less than the gift of God.

You have a lot of nerve calling someone a heretic. You cannot even defend your beliefs. You do not even know God is light, but you feel knowledgeable enough to judge me as a heretic. You should be more careful.

 

[God's Truth]

Salvation is by grace through faith.

Does that look like faith is alone to you? :chew:




We access that grace by faith.

Does that look like faith is alone to you? :chew:


Now....move along.

Grace is that Jesus sanctifies us by our faith, our faith is HOW WE ENTER. That faith IS alone when you do not have right action with it.

See James 2:14-24.

 

[God's Truth]

I'm not making a snap judgment to your stance yet... I know this seems out of place... but... what do Romans 4:4f and Ephesians 2:8f ... and 2 Cor. 12:9 mean to you?

This is not a trick question... it is simply to assist in my understanding of your stance.

Rossenwriter is a modalist.

 

[God's Truth]

Correct Trinitarian belief always leads to faithful and correct Christology.

It cannot be avoided.

Incorrect Trinitarian beliefs (or denials) always lead to heretical Christology . . . which destroys the biblical Gospel of God.

You admit your beliefs are not understandable. So by your own standards, you just deemed yourself and all triniarians heretics.

 

[glorydaz]

Grace is that Jesus sanctifies us by our faith, out faith is HOW WE ENTER. That faith IS alone when you do not have right action with it.

Nope..... "not of yourselves" rules out that "right action" you claim we need.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:​

 

[God's Truth]

Oh.

So if I can grasp man's feeble attempt at describing God, that means I've received saving faith?

You have the confused trinitarian glorydazed giving you a thanks for identifying the fact that the trinity doctrine is lame.

 

[God's Truth]

Nope..... "not of yourselves" rules out that "right action" you claim we need.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:​

Not of yourselves means no circumcision and animal sacrifices needed.

 

[God's Truth]

"God in person" or "God by nature"

...another confused trinitarian.

 

[God's Truth]

Is saving faith from God, finite descriptions or infinite trust in Godly revelation?

You do not even know what God reveals.

You only know that you have to defend the choice teachings of men who tickled your ears.

Trinity teachers?...Yeah, sounds good. Calvinist teachers?...yeah, sounds good.