The Trinity

[lifeisgood]

I think you are confusing the meaning of symbol. If you need literal blood that decayed a while back. It had better be symbolic for all our sakes.

Christ Jesus' death was NOT a symbol.
Christ Jesus' precious BLOOD shed on the Cross of Calvary was NOT a symbol.
Christ Jesus' resurrection was NOT a symbol.
Christ Jesus' Ascension was NOT a symbol.
Christ Jesus being the Passover Lamb was NOT a symbol.

Now, you, Rosenritter, want to live in the symbol, that is your decision to make.

 

[Rosenritter]

You are claiming that God is a pretender. That is "acts" as the Father and "acts" as the Son..... that is incorrect.

The Son of God WAS the Passover Lamb and was not ACTING as the Passover Lamb.

God is also the most powerful being that transcends all creation, who shall descend from the clouds and destroy the wicked with the brightness of his coming, but that wasn't role he played when he allowed the Romans to nail him to a cross. Instead he who has neither beginning or end of days and life everlasting tasted death for every man. God didn't have to play that part, but he determined it as a means for our salvation from the foundation of the world.

It seems that you're arguing against me just because it's me. Not sure what you hope to accomplish by that.

 

[Rosenritter]

Christ Jesus' death was NOT a symbol.
Christ Jesus' precious BLOOD shed on the Cross of Calvary was NOT a symbol.
Christ Jesus' resurrection was NOT a symbol.
Christ Jesus' Ascension was NOT a symbol.
Christ Jesus being the Passover Lamb was NOT a symbol.

Now, you, Rosenritter, want to live in the symbol, that is your decision to make.

If those things were not symbolic then they have no meaning. I don't believe you really mean that. I'll illustrate the results if that was your meaning:

"Christ Jesus death was NOT a symbol" - if it was not symbolic of his taking our penalty upon himself to show that we might be forgiven then we are still in our sins.

"Christ Jesus' precious BLOOD shed on the Cross ... was NOT a symbol." In that case you'd better try to find where that blood drained down in the soil of Jerusalem, and find it quickly. Hope it still has some magical power left in it, and drink it quickly or you will not have eternal life.

"Christ Jesus's resurrection was NOT a symbol." If it was not a symbol then it has no further meaning, yet Paul says that Christ's resurrection is symbolic of our resurrection and the rest of the dead. See 1 Corinthians 15. If it is NOT a symbol as you claim, then your faith is in vain, says Paul.

"Christ Jesus's ascension was NOT a symbol." If it was not symbolic, then nothing can be inferred from it. If it was symbolic, then we know that Jesus ascended to heaven, thus he himself is the Lord of Hosts spoken of in the 24th Psalm.

"Christ Jesus being the Passover Lamb was NOT a symbol." You worship SHEEP?

I think I'll accept the symbolism. Please don't argue what you don't really mean. How can we discuss anything of any depth if objections are thrown at things which should be readily agreed upon?

 

[Right Divider]

God is also the most powerful being that transcends all creation, who shall descend from the clouds and destroy the wicked with the brightness of his coming, but that wasn't role he played when he allowed the Romans to nail him to a cross. Instead he who has neither beginning or end of days and life everlasting tasted death for every man. God didn't have to play that part, but he determined it as a means for our salvation from the foundation of the world.

It seems that you're arguing against me just because it's me. Not sure what you hope to accomplish by that.

What I'm hoping to accomplish is for you to view and describe God the way that He describes Himself and not this actor "god" of yours.

Jesus has ALWAYS been the Son of God, even before He took a human body. That's what the Bible says. There is NO "Father and Son" relationship without BOTH a Father and a Son.

Do you believe that there was a time then God "became" a Father?

 

[keypurr]

You don't put enough thought into anything. You just make things up as you go along. Spirit Son? You made that whole thing up as one of your odd "Theories."

GM, just because your not equipped to understand my thoughts is no reason to discard them. Someday you may open your eyes to see what God has given me to share.

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[keypurr]

"A body thou hast prepared me" also works naturally with "age zero" and does not require "age thirty."

Your not seeing it friend. The body of Jesus was possessed when he was anointed. Acts 10:38

That's not a proof if the same passage can also be read in one or more additional ways. Its merely supportive... Of more than one interpretation in such a case. With that standard one also can "prove" anything actually.

It proves that Jesus was anointed with a special spirit.

Here's a problem: if Christ was the Passover lamb, and was to be a sacrifice, didn't he say he gave his life willingly? As you propose he didn't, but he rather kidnapped someone else and gave their life for them. So not only does it sound unnatural and strange but it fights against the gospel message.

I never said that Christ did not give his life willingly. Are you confused because Christ said he did not come of his own accord?

I didn't see you answer the issue of worship. As Jesus answered the devil, thou shalt only worship the Lord God. Jesus accepts worship. Ergo, either he is the Lord God or he is blasphemous. That and at least a dozen other problems arise if one tries to exclude Jesus as God. Everything and every place that God is supposed to be became Jesus.

Satan wanted Jesus Christ to bow down to him, he would not. Christ is neither Lord God or blasphemous.

 

[Apple7]

Hey Pops....what's the cost to become a gold member such as yourself...?

 

[keypurr]

"Rosenritter" is the express image of myself, and although "an account thou hast prepared me" it's still me. Just not me in my full power and glory. Rosenritter is not my creation, it IS me. At least to the extent that the TOL world can contain me.

Any IMAGE is not the subject that it is the IMAGE of.

Your trying to twist what it says. An express (exact) image of the Father was created. He/it is firstborn of all creatures. Col 1:15.

 

[keypurr]

@ Keypurr,

If "Jesus" is a created spirit-son, and there was a different Jesus who was born of Mary, then which one is speaking in Revelation? The human or the created spirit? Because in that context I just noticed this:

Revelation 22:13-16 KJV
(13) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
(14) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
(15) For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
(16) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

How can a created spirit son be the root and offspring of David, if it merely possessed the body of someone who was the root and offspring of David? That seems like a strange thing to say, or at least a strange way to say it, if that were indeed the context. Wouldn't "I am the offspring of the Lord, he who took the body of Jesus?" or something to that effect be more appropriate?

You do understand that they became one I hope.

 

[God's Truth]

No can do what you tell me I have to do.
Cannot invite the apostles to my home, serve them and feed them, see to it they have clothes, rest and food, for there are no apostles now.

Can you really not be reasoned with at all? How about you will not be saved just because you feed the poor, and clothe them. However, you can do those things after you are saved.

You have to come to Jesus in belief and obedience if you want to be saved.

 

[God's Truth]

Which none you can do on your own.
You say you have to do all of that while you are a UNbeliever.

Anyone can do those things if they want to do them.

 

[God's Truth]

Here are the works He said you are to do to be saved 'COME'.

Jesus does not say come and do nothing.

 

[God's Truth]

The Bible is clear and simple, so simple that a child can understand it.

But your pride blinds you.

A six year old can rebuke you with the truth, even younger. Ask any child that has not yet been brain washed, ask the child if we have to obey God.

 

[marhig]

Your not seeing it friend. The body of Jesus was possessed when he was anointed. Acts 10:38



It proves that Jesus was anointed with a special spirit.



I never said that Christ did not give his life willingly. Are you confused because Christ said he did not come of his own accord?



Satan wanted Jesus Christ to bow down to him, he would not. Christ is neither Lord God or blasphemous.

Hi Keypurr

I've just got a couple of things that I don't understand.

If Jesus was given the spirit of Christ at baptism, who was in Jesus before his baptism?

And why would it say in the Bible that Jesus grew stronger spirit as a child, if he didn't have the holy spirit until his baptism?

Jesus was conceived by the holy spirit, so i believe that the holy spirit was always with him. I believe that he gained strength in the spirit as he grew and he grew stronger and stronger and by the time he was 30, after being baptised, God anointed him with power. And he was given the absolute fullness of the holy spirit and he was in the absolute image of God bodily, making him Immanuel, God with us. And there was nothing of this world or the nature of the flesh in him, because he denied it and he was sinless.

He brought God to us and he was in the fullness of the father, with the fullness of strength and power of the spirit given to him of God. And Satan couldn't touch him. And as Satan tempted him, and he denied him, God strengthened him and God strengthened him as he suffered. And he suffered and he glorified the living God, baring witness to the truth laying down his life to bring a new and living way to us. He is the life and he is the only way back to the living God.

 

[keypurr]

You, keypurr, have out-rightly rejected the Truth for a lie coming to you out of the blue when you were not looking.

You don't even accept the Aramaic:

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“For today, The Savior has been born to you, who is THE LORD JEHOVAH The Messiah, in the city of David.” (Luke 2:11)

Look at the AENT translation:

Luke 2:11 For born to you all today (is the) Savior that is Master YHWH the Mashiyach, in the city of Dawid.

Notes on verse that you might find of interest.

One of the most powerful statements about YHWH and His Mashiyach in the entire Aramaic NT. YHWH is the real Mashiyach, who chose the vessel of Y'shua the man. However within the Y,shua the man is an occurrence of the One Divine Nature of YHWH, also known as the Ruach hakKodesh. This is the literal meaning of the fullness of YHWH dwelling inside Mashiyach, and in accordance with Tanakh prophecy. (Isiah 5:1, Zec 12:10) The divine and human natures exist separately yet side by side within Y'shua.

The notes in this translation are many and they seem good.

www.aent.org

 

[keypurr]

Hey Pops....what's the cost to become a gold member such as yourself...?

I really do not know kid some one was kind enough to buy it for me. My riches are not in the form of money. It is in the love I have for my God and his people. That includes you kid.

I must go to bed now, I need to get up early to bring the old folks to their doctors in the morning. I will try to get back to you folks tomorrow night.

 

[Rosenritter]

What I'm hoping to accomplish is for you to view and describe God the way that He describes Himself and not this actor "god" of yours.

Jesus has ALWAYS been the Son of God, even before He took a human body. That's what the Bible says. There is NO "Father and Son" relationship without BOTH a Father and a Son.

Do you believe that there was a time then God "became" a Father?

RD, Jesus was not (a separate) Son of God before he was manifest in the flesh. "Son of God" is what you call God when he is manifest in the flesh. You're viewing this with polytheistic lenses. You don't have a "that's what the Bible says" which is why you said that. Had it actually said that you would have provided the passage over two weeks ago.

If you are looking for a "Father and Son" relationship, God is the the Father of Jesus because Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit. "God the Father" is the Holy Spirit, for God is a spirit and his name is Holy. Prior to that event, any reference to "Father" (Isaiah 9:6, Christ's name shall be "Everlasting Father") and Son (Psalm 2:12, "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry") was prophetic in reference to that event, rather than present tense.

I'll put something here for you though. If God does not "play parts" then who exactly wrestled Jacob when he fled from Esau his brother? And who was it that identified himself as the "Captain of the Lord of Hosts" that he declared the ground he walked upon to be Holy?

 

[Rosenritter]

Your not seeing it friend. The body of Jesus was possessed when he was anointed. Acts 10:38

It proves that Jesus was anointed with a special spirit.

I never said that Christ did not give his life willingly. Are you confused because Christ said he did not come of his own accord?

Satan wanted Jesus Christ to bow down to him, he would not. Christ is neither Lord God or blasphemous.

Your answers aren't following the conversation exactly.

1. Being "anointed with the Holy Ghost and with power" does not mean "possessed." Before Jesus was born David was anointed with the Spirit of the LORD (see 1 Samuel 16:13) ... so was David possessed as well?

2. When a passage can be read more than one way, it cannot "prove" your special interpretation. Do you understand the meaning of "proof?" A proof is absolute, not requiring unproven assumptions.

3. You have said that Christ did not give his own life willingly. You said that he gave someone else's life willingly. Jesus didn't give himself, the spirit that possessed him gave him.

4. You totally skipped the entire section that Jesus received and accepted worship from men and angels. Thus he really is the LORD or he is blasphemous, accepting honor that is only due the LORD.

 

[daqq]

Originally Posted by Rosenritter
"Rosenritter" is the express image of myself, and although "an account thou hast prepared me" it's still me. Just not me in my full power and glory. Rosenritter is not my creation, it IS me. At least to the extent that the TOL world can contain me.

Any IMAGE is not the subject that it is the IMAGE of.

Your trying to twist what it says. An express (exact) image of the Father was created. He/it is firstborn of all creatures. Col 1:15.

Perhaps it is like the eternal Son doctrine: Rosenritter never created a TOL account but rather it has always existed and likely even pre-existed Rosenritter, (the 100% human half of Rosenritter). This would likely mean that the eternal TOL account is much superior to your gold account too! (there is probably only one "only begotten uncreated" eternal TOL account).

:sheep:

 

[Crucible]