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  • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
    So then, are you contesting the scriptures that say there is one Spirit?

    Do you agree that the Father is Spirit?

    Do you agree that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Spirit?
    John the Baptist, came in the spirit and power of Elijah. Elisha the prophet, received the spirit of Elijah. Are you implying, that since there is only one spirit, that the spirit of Elijah is God's spirit? Just because the term, "spirit of Christ" is used in the bible, doesn't imply that Jesus' spirit is ontologically, identical to God's.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
      All has not been fulfilled,
      All is fulfilled. Jesus said he came to fulfill and he accomplished what he came to do.

      Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post

      and according to the Hebrew bible, the Torah will be kept by Israel, forever.
      Israel are all those who overcome by faith in Jesus. The only way the word of God is to be kept is by obedience to Christ.

      Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
      Messiah came to redeem the world, and draw out His people from the nations. He is restoring Israel, and it is Israel, that will reign with Him, over the nations.
      All the saved reign with him now. God's people are those who come to Him through Jesus.

      Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
      Much has been fulfilled, but not all. Till heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law.
      That scripture says till all is fulfilled. Jesus came to fulfill and he accomplished what he came to do.

      Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
      That is why the 12 apostles were zealous of the law and never taught any of Messiah's disciples not to keep it.
      Peter associated with Gentiles and ate with them; he also was the first to preach the gospel to Gentiles and water baptized them.
      Oh how I love the Word of God!

      Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
        John the Baptist, came in the spirit and power of Elijah. Elisha the prophet, received the spirit of Elijah. Are you implying, that since there is only one spirit, that the spirit of Elijah is God's spirit? Just because the term, "spirit of Christ" is used in the bible, doesn't imply that Jesus' spirit is ontologically, identical to God's.
        John did not come with another man's spirit. John came in the spirit of Elijah means that John preached repentance of sins as did Elijah.

        There are many spirits, but there is only one divine Spirit.

        Jesus is the Spirit of God.
        Oh how I love the Word of God!

        Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by keypurr View Post
          At one time I thought as you do, but by 16 I was asking questions that Pastors could not answer. Your stuck in the muck of tradition friend. There is a lot more to learn in scripture than that which is taught in church. If your content with half truth I am glad for you, but I need more than that.


          Sent from my iPad using TOL
          What questions? Perhaps we could answer them here.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
            When Jesus came to earth, he taught the rules and guidelines for the new law, for the New Covenant, and then he shed his blood on the cross for the New Covenant. Blood Covenant's must be followed exactly.
            The New Covenant, hasn't been established yet. It will be established, when Israel is restored. There is also no evidence, that the new covenant, brings a new law. Every scripture in the Hebrew Bible, which is the only bible the Messiah and His 12 apostles recognized, clearly states that the Torah will be kept after Messiah returns.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
              The New Covenant, hasn't been established yet.
              Of course it has.
              Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
              It will be established, when Israel is restored.
              Israel is all those who overcome by faith in Jesus.
              Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post

              There is also no evidence, that the new covenant, brings a new law.
              Jesus' teachings while he walked the earth is the new law.

              Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
              Every scripture in the Hebrew Bible, which is the only bible the Messiah and His 12 apostles recognized, clearly states that the Torah will be kept after Messiah returns.
              When Jesus comes again, it will be too late for anyone to start doing right. Jesus comes as a thief in the night.

              Do you really think that the Father is going to take animal sacrifices after His Son, the Lamb of God?
              Oh how I love the Word of God!

              Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

              Comment


              • Fulfilled: Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent, and believe the gospel.

                Ephesians 1:10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

                Luke 24:44 He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."

                John 4:34 "My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

                John 17:4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do.

                John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

                Amos 9:11-12.

                Jesus says all things are restored: Matthew 17:11-12; and Mark 9:12. David’s fallen tent is restored see Acts 15:16.
                Oh how I love the Word of God!

                Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                Comment


                • New Covenant:

                  Matthew 26:28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

                  Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

                  Paul is a minister of the New Covenant.

                  2 Corinthians 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

                  The Greater Glory of the New Covenant

                  7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!

                  Paul even quotes Jesus making the New Covenant.

                  Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

                  1 Corinthians 11:25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
                  Oh how I love the Word of God!

                  Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                    All is fulfilled. Jesus said he came to fulfill and he accomplished what he came to do.



                    Israel are all those who overcome by faith in Jesus. The only way the word of God is to be kept is by obedience to Christ.



                    All the saved reign with him now. God's people are those who come to Him through Jesus.


                    That scripture says till all is fulfilled. Jesus came to fulfill and he accomplished what he came to do.



                    Peter associated with Gentiles and ate with them; he also was the first to preach the gospel to Gentiles and water baptized them.
                    The Messiah's mission, wasn't over the day he left this earth and ascended to heaven. He hasn't returned and heaven and earth is still here with us, hence the Torah is still applicable to Israel. Fulfilled, doesn't mean end or nullify, but rather, through His teaching we receive full understanding of Torah. You're focused on one word, in that passage, and ignoring the rest:

                    Mat 5:17* Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.*
                    Mat 5:18* For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.*
                    Mat 5:19* Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.*

                    Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
                    Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work lawlessness/anomois.

                    The 12 apostles and their students, were zealous of Torah:

                    Act 21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
                    Act 21:19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
                    Act 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
                    Act 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

                    The 12 apostles, never taught against Torah observance. Peter gave instructions to Shaul, that the gentile believers, in Messiah, did not have to keep Torah. This doesn't imply that Israel, those who will reign with Messiah, do not have to keep Torah. Those who keep Torah will be called "great" in the Kingdom of heaven, those who do not, may not suffer the second death, but they will not reign with Messiah.

                    Those who reign with Messiah, over the nations, are the remnant of Israel. The members of Messiah's royal family. You have to keep Torah, in order to be "Great" in YHWH's Kingdom, or one who reigns. Keeping Torah is not a prerequisite for salvation, but it is a requirement for Israel. You are not Israel, if you do not keep Torah.

                    Zec 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.


                    Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
                    Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
                    Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
                    Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
                    Zec 14:20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
                    Zec 14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

                    In the future, the whole earth will have to keep the feasts of tabernacles, and essentially, keep Torah. So, your argument that Torah is nullified, is simply wrong. We're not in the new covenant age. That age will be established, when Israel is restored and the nations come under its guidance and governance.

                    Comment


                    • The blood of the new covenant, seals and initiates the process leading to the restoration of Israel and YHWH's creation. The New Covenant, is made with Israel and Judah, and it will be fully consummated, when Messiah returns and establishes the Kingdom of YHWH on earth. Until then, we are still waiting for our full redemption. The restoration, overtakes the darkness, as the sun overtakes the night. We are at the dawn of a new aeon, a transitioning, but we are not there yet.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                        I just can't see how anyone can get around it that the elect can be led astray. Why are we warned if we couldn't be led astray?
                        One must become a sheep to be elected. As for the sheep being deceived masses, from where do you get that?



                        I will just list some warning scriptures and then if you want to talk about it more somewhere else we can do that.

                        People can fall away from Jesus see Galatians 5:4; 1 Corinthians 10:12; 2 Peter 3:17. We are warned not to drift away, Hebrews 2:1, not to draw back, Hebrews 10:38; to hold on and stand firm, Hebrews 3:14, 1 Corinthians 15:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15. We are told how not to fall, 2 Peter 1:10, how not to be hardened, Hebrews 3:8,13.

                        God can throw people out, Matthew 22:13, blot people out, Exodus 32:32-33, remove your lampstand, Revelation 2:5, sign you a place with unbelievers, Luke 12:46, and cut you off, Romans 11:19-21. We can become defiled, Hebrews 12:15. Our lamps can burn out, Matthew 25:8. We can cause ourselves to have to have Christ formed in us again, Galatians 4:19.

                        We are told how to remain in Jesus, John 6:56, and if we do Jesus will remain in us, John 15:4. Jesus tells us of the good if we remain in him, John 15:5, and of the bad when we do not, John 15:6. Jesus exhorts us to remain in him, John 15:9, 10, Acts 14:22, and 1 John 2:24.
                        I think you might be misunderstanding what I am saying. I know that we can go astray. But I make a distinction between the sheep (capable of being led astray), and the guide/ teacher/ messenger/ actual prophet/ shepard/ elect.

                        I don't think you make such a distinction as per my understanding of your words, but I would like to talk about it. I know you posted scripture showing that the saved can fall away, and I do not deny it.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                          Fulfilled: Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent, and believe the gospel.

                          Ephesians 1:10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

                          Luke 24:44 He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."

                          John 4:34 "My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

                          John 17:4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do.

                          John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

                          Amos 9:11-12.

                          Jesus says all things are restored: Matthew 17:11-12; and Mark 9:12. David’s fallen tent is restored see Acts 15:16.

                          Everything hasn't been fulfilled, what was written in Torah and the Prophets. Messiah is returning, and He will establish the Kingdom.

                          Comment


                          • I'll be back tomorrow, Shalom everyone.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Rosenritter View Post
                              That would still leave God as the author of sin.
                              You must first understand that sin is the work of man alone.

                              We are free, and must be if expected to not feel as if slaves or prisoners. Our freedom is the Will of GOD that we might come into faithfulness with HIM out of genuine desire to do HIS Will. Though sin is of the hands of man and GOD created man. If we had been created without freedom then we would not be capable of loving GOD out of reciprocation of the love that GOD shows creation. The root of evil is greed. Is GOD greedy for giving us both freedom and mercy and grace.

                              I am not denying free will.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post

                                In the future, the whole earth will have to keep the feasts of tabernacles, and essentially, keep Torah. So, your argument that Torah is nullified, is simply wrong. We're not in the new covenant age. That age will be established, when Israel is restored and the nations come under its guidance and governance.
                                Jesus fulfilled the law and the Prophets.
                                That means it was all about him.

                                Circumcision of the flesh was a sign and a seal.
                                Jesus fulfilled that, for he circumcises our hearts and the Holy Spirit is our sign and seal.

                                The observance of special days were all about Jesus, and it is now worthless to one's salvation to observe special days.
                                Jesus put us in him and we observe him all day everyday.

                                The Jews used to have to do various external washings.
                                Jesus washes us inside and out.

                                The purification/ceremonial works required the blood of animals.
                                Jesus is the Sacrificial Lamb of God, and his blood washes away our sins once and for all.

                                The Jews used to have to do the purification/ceremonial works, just to be able to go to the tent, and later the temple, where God's Spirit was.

                                Since Jesus, he washes us and we become the temple.

                                He is our High Priest and Mediator.
                                Oh how I love the Word of God!

                                Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                                Comment

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