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Biological Taxonomy - Kinds vs. Species (Linnaean taxonomy)

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  • Originally posted by Stuu View Post
    And nor should it.
    Then quit doing it.

    Originally posted by Stuu View Post
    Are you saying it is not possible to observe big changes in biology?
    Possible... sure. Actually observed ... no.

    Originally posted by Stuu View Post
    Are you denying that accumulated small changes add to give big changes?

    Stuart
    Yes, in this context I most certainly do.

    Once again, mutations are vastly damaging to the one that receives them. Even honest evolutionists say the same. That's why they try to explain around the problem.

    Every "advantageous" mutation comes at a great cost to the integrity of the original design. Mutation are NOT fuel for progress.
    All of my ancestors are human.
    Originally posted by Squeaky
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Originally posted by God's Truth
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
      Every "advantageous" mutation comes at a great cost to the integrity of the original design. Mutation are NOT fuel for progress.
      This is simply wrong. Can you drink milk as an adult? Thank an advantageous mutation. There's no cost associated unless you're eating too much ice cream. :P

      “We do not believe in God because we need to explain this or that feature of the world. That is what science is for. We believe in God because we see something deeper in the world, something that transcends the scientific explanations.” - Karl Giberson Ph.D.



      - The science and faith of theistic evolution explained.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Alate_One View Post
        This is simply wrong. Can you drink milk as an adult? Thank an advantageous mutation. There's no cost associated unless you're eating too much ice cream. :P
        Again, those are extremely trivial changes and NOT the kind of changes that can construct the highly complex interdependent human body from the supposed "single universal common ancestor" (that is supposedly a single celled creature of some kind).
        Last edited by Right Divider; November 4th, 2019, 12:42 PM. Reason: typo
        All of my ancestors are human.
        Originally posted by Squeaky
        That explains why your an idiot.
        Originally posted by God's Truth
        Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
        Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
        (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

        1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
        (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

        Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
          Again, those are extremely trivial changes and NOT the kind of changes that can construct the highly complex interdependent human body from the supposed "single universal common ancestor" (that is supposedly a singled celled creature of some kind).
          How about the difference between the beak of a cactus finch and a ground finch?

          Is that trivial? Or is the loss of toes in a horse along with the increase in size of a single toe, is that trivial?

          Is the change in human skin color "trivial"?

          Could cats and dogs have shared a common ancestor?

          I am fairly sure anything you could consider "not trivial" is something that would never occur in one evolutionary step or by one mutation.

          So you claim that all mutations are bad, then you're shown beneficial mutations. You claim those are "trivial" so you move the goalposts to something that requires many mutations and is harder to reconstruct, then you say, "see no mutations are beneficial".
          “We do not believe in God because we need to explain this or that feature of the world. That is what science is for. We believe in God because we see something deeper in the world, something that transcends the scientific explanations.” - Karl Giberson Ph.D.



          - The science and faith of theistic evolution explained.

          Comment


          • Stuu: Are you saying it is not possible to observe big changes in biology?
            Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
            Possible... sure. Actually observed ... no.
            How do you account for all the very different human (or hominid) fossils that have been discovered?

            As you will appreciate, it's not just the big differences in the skulls.
            Once again, mutations are vastly damaging to the one that receives them. Even honest evolutionists say the same. That's why they try to explain around the problem. Every "advantageous" mutation comes at a great cost to the integrity of the original design. Mutation are NOT fuel for progress.
            You will understand I'm sure that this is a matter of chance, and also a matter of probability: very large mutations are almost certain to be very damaging and probably fatal to development; but the smaller the mutation, the closer it gets to having a 50% chance of being advantageous.

            Stuart

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Alate_One View Post
              How about the difference between the beak of a cactus finch and a ground finch?

              Is that trivial?
              YES... that is very trivial. They are ALL still finches with beaks.

              Originally posted by Alate_One View Post
              Or is the loss of toes in a horse along with the increase in size of a single toe, is that trivial?
              Conjecture based on the fossil record?

              Originally posted by Alate_One View Post
              Is the change in human skin color "trivial"?
              Absolutely!

              Originally posted by Alate_One View Post
              Could cats and dogs have shared a common ancestor?
              Not likely.

              Originally posted by Alate_One View Post
              I am fairly sure anything you could consider "not trivial" is something that would never occur in one evolutionary step or by one mutation.
              Or trillions

              Originally posted by Alate_One View Post
              So you claim that all mutations are bad, then you're shown beneficial mutations. You claim those are "trivial" so you move the goalposts to something that requires many mutations and is harder to reconstruct, then you say, "see no mutations are beneficial".
              It's not harder... it's impossible based on actual scientific observations.

              BTW... you are LYING about what I said. I have NEVER said that "there are no beneficial mutations". I said that EVEN those mutations that seem to have some benefit come at the cost of damage to the original design.

              Of course, you think that the entire animal kingdom is in a constant state of design or redesign. That's not science, that's silly.
              All of my ancestors are human.
              Originally posted by Squeaky
              That explains why your an idiot.
              Originally posted by God's Truth
              Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
              Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
              (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

              1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
              (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

              Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Stuu View Post
                Stuu: Are you saying it is not possible to observe big changes in biology?

                How do you account for all the very different human (or hominid) fossils that have been discovered?
                Those various skulls are not more different than the range of human skulls around the world today.

                Originally posted by Stuu View Post
                As you will appreciate, it's not just the big differences in the skulls.


                Originally posted by Stuu View Post
                You will understand I'm sure that this is a matter of chance, and also a matter of probability: very large mutations are almost certain to be very damaging and probably fatal to development; but the smaller the mutation, the closer it gets to having a 50% chance of being advantageous.


                Nothing about random mutations can design the highly complex interdependent systems requires for a human body.

                I feel that you and many other evolutionists here are a lot like those that once talked about the "simple single cell". You also grossly underestimate the incredible complexity of the human body.
                All of my ancestors are human.
                Originally posted by Squeaky
                That explains why your an idiot.
                Originally posted by God's Truth
                Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                  Those various skulls are not more different than the range of human skulls around the world today.
                  That's just not true, I'm afraid. And my point wasn't about skulls specifically, which you did not address. So we have a situation where you have been presented with a good example of what you deny (not to mention Alate's One).
                  Nothing about random mutations can design the highly complex interdependent systems requires for a human body.
                  We have covered this already. I recommend you do more reading on this topic if you wish to be taken seriously.
                  I feel that you and many other evolutionists here are a lot like those that once talked about the "simple single cell". You also grossly underestimate the incredible complexity of the human body.
                  I would like to know what I have posted that has denied the complexity of biological systems in any way. I have posted in the last month somewhere here that I think creationists underestimate the complexity of living cells.

                  Stuart

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Stuu View Post
                    That's just not true, I'm afraid. And my point wasn't about skulls specifically, which you did not address. So we have a situation where you have been presented with a good example of what you deny (not to mention Alate's One).
                    You're not fooling anyone with this attempted ploy.

                    Similarities do NOT ipso facto indicate a descendant relationship. So you and your fellow evolutionists can continue to push that narrative all that you like. It's proof of nothing.

                    Originally posted by Stuu View Post
                    We have covered this already. I recommend you do more reading on this topic if you wish to be taken seriously.
                    Your attempted knock on my "education" is sophomoric at best.

                    Originally posted by Stuu View Post
                    I would like to know what I have posted that has denied the complexity of biological systems in any way.


                    Your belief that random mistakes can create exceedingly complex interdependent systems, like the human body.

                    Originally posted by Stuu View Post
                    I have posted in the last month somewhere here that I think creationists underestimate the complexity of living cells.


                    If nothing else, you're good for a laugh.
                    All of my ancestors are human.
                    Originally posted by Squeaky
                    That explains why your an idiot.
                    Originally posted by God's Truth
                    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                    Comment


                    • YE creationism is an attempt to compromise scripture with biology geology, physics, and so on. Because scripture and science are about two entirely different things, the compromise never worked.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                        You're not fooling anyone with this attempted ploy. Similarities do NOT ipso facto indicate a descendant relationship. So you and your fellow evolutionists can continue to push that narrative all that you like. It's proof of nothing.
                        So kittens don't necessarily come from cats?
                        Your attempted knock on my "education" is sophomoric at best.
                        Is your attitude that you would like to learn?

                        Stuart

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                          YE creationism is an attempt to compromise scripture with biology geology, physics, and so on. Because scripture and science are about two entirely different things, the compromise never worked.
                          Given the number of times it makes testable claims, the conclusion would have to be then that scripture is historical fiction, or historical science fiction.

                          Stuart

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                            YE creationism is an attempt to compromise scripture with biology geology, physics, and so on. Because scripture and science are about two entirely different things, the compromise never worked.
                            False accusation are all the rage these days.
                            All of my ancestors are human.
                            Originally posted by Squeaky
                            That explains why your an idiot.
                            Originally posted by God's Truth
                            Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                            Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                            (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                            1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                            (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                            Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Stuu View Post
                              Given the number of times it makes testable claims, the conclusion would have to be then that scripture is historical fiction, or historical science fiction.

                              Stuart
                              What else would an irrational, illogical atheist say?
                              All of my ancestors are human.
                              Originally posted by Squeaky
                              That explains why your an idiot.
                              Originally posted by God's Truth
                              Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                              Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                              (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                              1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                              (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                              Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Stuu View Post
                                So kittens don't necessarily come from cats?
                                So you're just reduced to babbling foolishly?

                                Originally posted by Stuu View Post
                                Is your attitude that you would like to learn?

                                Stuart
                                More childishness.... and here you pretend to want to have an intelligent conversation.
                                All of my ancestors are human.
                                Originally posted by Squeaky
                                That explains why your an idiot.
                                Originally posted by God's Truth
                                Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                                Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                                (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                                1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                                (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                                Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                                Comment

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