sin/sins is not the issue today!

[Grosnick Marowbe]

If you believe that there was no grace for those living under the law then how do you explain this verse which says otherwise?:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

You just pick and choose which verses you will believe and which ones you will deny.

Here Peter, who lived under the law, says that his salvation was by grace just as the Gentiles are saved:

"We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are" (Acts 15:11).​

Of course you will never believe that because you put more faith in what some men say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually say.

Again, Paul was speaking to the Gentiles in Romans. You're not
very astute, are you?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

A7 and Jerry S, are "The non-dynamic Duo."

 

[aikido7]

"do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?" (Jn.10:36).​

When the Lord Jesus said that He is the Son of God they charged Him with blasphemy because of that. And here is what they believed He meant when He said that He is the Son of God:

"The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God" (Jn.10:33).​

The Gospel of John is full of theology and presents a Jesus very different from the historical figure described in the other four gospels.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I think they both need to sit down and read/study the entire Bible. Neither
one of these "Bozo's" knows what they're talking about. A7 doubts certain
writers in the Bible and Jerry S keeps asking the same questions over and
over. All the time, claiming no one has answered him, even though they have.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The Gospel of John is full of theology and presents a Jesus very different from the historical figure described in the other four gospels.

Then, why read it, if you don't believe it? Isn't that kind of
"Dopey" of you? Leave the Bible to those who believe it.
Just go have a couple of ice cold beers and enjoy the rest
of your life, doubting!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I happen to believe the Bible, cover to cover, word for word.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Hey A7, why do you bother being on a Christian forum if you
don't trust in the Bible?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

A7, you claim to be 77. Do you really think you should spend
your last days doubting the written word of God? Your time
is short. Do you have something better to believe in before
you draw your last breath and await the judgment?

 

[Danoh]

A7 and Jerry S, are "The non-dynamic Duo."

Lol - more like the Dynamic Equivalent Duo - their every post is a re-interpretation of things, including, the words of others on here, to them, lol

 

[heir]

This scripture cannot mean what you say it does when taken in context. As I understand your remarks you are saying the term "believe not" does not mean that our faith sometimes falters but that we can turn away from Him altogether and live a life of denying the faith without our relationship with Him being altered.

We are identified with Him and in Him and by His faith. That's how we can know and say:

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

And just what part of complete in Him (Colossians 2:10 KJV) are you struggling with?

 

[aikido7]

I think they both need to sit down and read/study the entire Bible. Neither
one of these "Bozo's" knows what they're talking about. A7 doubts certain
writers in the Bible and Jerry S keeps asking the same questions over and
over. All the time, claiming no one has answered him, even though they have.

Christians rarely read their Bible and are often surprised that Jesus preached against public prayer, denounced those who called upon him to judge and spoke of a God that treated the good and the just the same way he treated the evil and the unjust.

You, Grosnick, continue to read my comments with inattention and to justify your own prejudices.

 

[heir]

This scripture cannot mean what you say it does when taken in context. As I understand your remarks you are saying the term "believe not" does not mean that our faith sometimes falters but that we can turn away from Him altogether and live a life of denying the faith without our relationship with Him being altered.

This is not true contextually. This verse with the one before it reads like this:

11 The saying is trustworthy, for:
IF we have died with him,
we will also live with him;
12 IF we endure
we will also reign with him;
IF we deny him,
he also will deny us;

13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful—
(2 Timothy 2:11-12)

Your interpretation of verse 13 it is contradicted by verse 12 which sets conditions on our future experience, conditions indicated by that very potent word IF. We will not live with Him forever IF we do not die with Him. We will not reign with him in the world to come IF we do not endure this world.

That verse 13 refers to God's continued faithfulness when we go through periods of doubt better fits the tone of an exhortation to endure that is intrinsic to this verse. The reason is that we are more likely, in times of testing, to go through periods of doubt. To keep us from being daunted by the task Paul adds that while we must endure and keep our faith absolute perfection is not demanded. When we waver God will still be with us.

However, the idea that our "faithlessness" means apostasizing from the faith is directly contradicted by the phrase "if we deny him, he also will deny us"

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:

We are dead and our life is hid with Christ in God and when Christ appears, then shall we also appear with Him in glory (no doubt about it)!

Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Colossians 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Colossians 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

This is about suffering, “If we suffer, we shall also reign with Him” as in:

Philippians 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
Philippians 1:28 And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.
Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
Philippians 1:30 Having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear to be in me.

If we deny Him the suffering, He also will deny us the reign!

2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

It's about reward 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 KJV, 2 Corinthians 4:17 KJV, Colossians 3:24 KJV)

Knowing our position in Christ found in passages throughout Romans through Philemon including our being dead with Him and that we shall live with Him when He Who is our life appears: we believers read 2 Timothy 2:13 KJV as an “even if”! Even if we believe not, we are identified in and with Him. To deny us, would be to deny Himself and He cannot deny Himself as He abideth faithful!


Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Lol - more like the Dynamic Equivalent Duo - their every post is a re-interpretation of things, including, the words of others on here, to them, lol

They're a couple of Knuckleheads. That's for certain.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Christians rarely read their Bible and are often surprised that Jesus preached against public prayer, denounced those who called upon him to judge and spoke of a God that treated the good and the just the same way he treated the evil and the unjust.

You, Grosnick, continue to read my comments with inattention and to justify your own prejudices.

More of your "useless" generalities. Surprise yourself and others; say
something intelligent and worthwhile? We're waiting?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

A7 has placed himself in a position of "KNOWING" how many times
every Christian in the world, opens their Bibles. He must be a busy
guy, collecting all that information? There's seven billion people
that inhabit planet earth and, no doubt there's at least, several
million Christians or so? And yet, A7 claims to KNOW that they
don't pick up their Bibles much?

How do ya do it A7? Do you send out surveys or what?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Hey A7, what's the names, E-Mails, and phone numbers of these "Millions"
of Christians that don't bother to read their Bible? I wanna check up on
these folks and see if your calculations are correct?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You can PM those statistics, if you want to keep them private.

 

[Shasta]

In this case, you don't know how to "Rightly Divide" the written
word of God.

In your posts you simply state again and again your general proposition. For anyone who does not already believe it, this approach is singularly unconvincing. To establish a doctrine you have to provide exegetical evidence from passages and verses. You cannot expect anyone else to assume your general proposition and to then apply it to the verses. This is begging the question.

For instance, Jerry keeps asking you how Jesus could be preaching that the Jews could be saved through faith PLUS works when He so often said that men could obtain eternal life through believing in Him. Instead of meeting him on that ground you hurl insults and restate your doctrine without addressing the relevant verses.

You approach (proclaiming your general propositions without addressing specific scriptures) makes you look evasive. For instance, rather than rebut my argument that 1 Peter 1:25 shows that what Peter preached had no expiration date on it, you say simply that I do not know how to rightly divide the scriptures. Now this verse seems fairly straight forward to me and I do not see any reason why I should not accept what it says on the face of it. The WORD = the gospel preached by Peter lasts forever. If this is true then it could not have faded away some time in the First Century. "Forever" is obvioulsly a little longer that 20-30 years. If Peter's message lasts forever then it is reasonable to assume it is still active and relevant today. How can that be "divided" so that it means anything else? I think what you mean by "rightly dividing" is "sliced and diced."

What amazes me is that someone who claims to be a follower of Paul's teachings could claim that meritorious works could contribute to anyone's salvation when Paul himself said "by the works of the law shall NO one be justified."

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry keeps asking you how Jesus could be preaching that the Jews should be saved through faith AND works when He so often said men could obtain eternal life through believing in Him. You hurl insults and restate you general proposition without addressing the relevant verses.

Grosnick Marowbe's behavior is curious to me. He seems to be an intelligent man but when confronted with John 5:24 where the Lord Jesus says that those who "believe" are saved it seems as if Grosnick just cannot believe Him. Could it be that he is so brain-washed by the false teaching within the Neo-Mad camp that it is just impossible for him to believe what the Lord said?

I have seen this exact same thing with those who have been brain-washed into the Marian cult. You can show them passages from the Scriptures which directly contradict the teaching of Rome concerning Mary and those Scriptures mean nothing to them

What is your opinion about why what the Lord Jesus says at John 5:24 seems to mean nothing to Grosnick?

Thanks!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

John 5:24 states: “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word
and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come
into judgment, but has passed from death into life."

First of all, John 5:24 was written to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
We MUST keep that in mind. It's a generalized statement from our Lord
and Savior Jesus Christ. However, the Jews were still under the Law when
Christ spoke those words. Even after Christ died and was resurrected, the
Jews still had their works plus faith in Christ.

If the Jews had to believe and do works to be saved then why would the Lord Jesus tell them that it only took believing to be saved?:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

And why would He say that it is His words that bring life if His words alone were not enough to bring life?:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

Will you answer that?

Or, do you want to have an intelligent discussion? It's
up to you?

Prove that you can answer my questions in an "intelligent" manner.