"Faith without works is dead" doctrine is not a "faith alone" doctrine.
One Gospel Proven.
- Thread starter Daniel1611
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Daniel1611
New member
So what are you saying? Salvation includes works?
I'm saying that James taught faith plus works of the law, and Paul taught faith without works of the law.
And neither of them were against Christ.
Daniel1611
New member
So do you need the works to be saved or not?
Zeke
Well-known member
Silly literal mannequin all that happens within the kingdom of God which is the temple made without hands which is the body of man Luke 17:20-21, plus you sport a legal name (mark of the beast) owned by the Crown Corporation so Babylon is you're mama, and that faith is artificial like that ID that lets you buy and sell.
achduke
Active member
Rom 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
Not sinning is obeying! To sin is to transgress the law. Paul says we should not do this or we are a slave to sin.
Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?
The bong man Zeke,above, in response to my post....
..."posts" the above disjointed scribble....Zeke must be smokin' more of that haseesh...........Peace out....Groovy...
There is only one gospel throughout the Bible.
Paul preached to both Jew and Gentile.
Works of faith are necessary for salvation.
Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heave having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Act 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
Act 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
Act 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Act 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
LA
Paul preached to both Jew and Gentile.
Works of faith are necessary for salvation.
Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heave having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Act 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
Act 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
Act 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Act 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
LA
Paul's doctrine clearly says one is saved by faith without works.
James' doctrine clearly says faith alone (without works) cannot save.
If it has always been that faith alone saves, then James is a heretic.
James 2 KJV
(14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
(15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
(16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
(17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
(14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
(15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
(16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
(17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Neither Paul nor James are speaking against Christ.
But they are teaching a different doctrine of contingency for salvation.
One is contingent on faith with works.
The other is contingent on faith without works.
Different doctrines of salvation. Different gospels of salvation.
If you choose the doctrine/gospel of James, then you are obligated to keep the WHOLE law. Because if you are under the law, then disobeying any teeny tiny bit of it will pronounce you guilty of the WHOLE law. And by 'law', I mean the law given to the Israelites through Moses.
For that is the 'works' in which James is referring to - the Mosaic law.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
How many are enough?
One of the "chief droids" of TOL, and another droid, weighs in, spams what she heard others say, for years, demonstrating that she/most, are clueless as to the meaning of the term "gospel," and thus asserts that "There is only one piece of good news throughout the Bible," and thus asserts that Judas was saved, a saint, as he preached the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV:
Judas:"Hey everyone! The Master is going to die for our sins, be buried, and rise again!!!! Believe this good news to be saved!!! I did, and I preach it!!!!"
Satanic-made up.
The Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, never taught/preached the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, at least prior to the death/burial/resurrection, i.e., "I/Christ will die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again for your/our justification...Believe this good news to be saved."
Peter attempted to prevent the Master's death twice, the very death that would reconcile him, and the death/burial/resurrection was hid from the 12, a time in which they were preaching the good news/gospel of the kingdom. They did not initially believe that the Master had risen, even after they were told that He had. And yet, for almost 3 years, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the 12, including Judas(Luke 9:6 KJV), did preach "the gospel of the kingdom." Thus, the good news/gospel of the kingdom, the good news about the coming kingdom of heaven upon the earth, "the days of heaven upon the earth"(survey Deuteronomy 11:21 KJV),was devoid of the good news of the death/burial/resurrection, the 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV good news-they are not the same good news. A 6 year old can see this, but most members of the body of Christ, because they don't survey, study the details of the book, a book of details, but, instead, study/believe what others say about the book, take a space walk, and cannot see it.
One "gospel," good news? Made up. Satanic.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
I believe one gospelism puts your mood in a big moulage more than any other error.
As you know, Mayor, the "devil is in the details." Ask Moses, after he had struck the rock twice(Exodus 17:6 KJV vs. Numbers 20:8-12 KJV). Ask King Saul, when he offered a sacrifice. Ask Korah, and the gang(Numbers 16:32 KJV).
Am I gettin' through to them, fella? That's my aim.....Plenty of good news in the book....
Much of the fog surrounding most members of the boc would be lifted, if they paid attention to details, to things in the book that differ, one of the most obvious, being the difference between "the gospel(good news) of the kingdom," and the gospel(good news) of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV. If you recognize these differences, many/most of the, yes, contradictions, are removed, as the fog lifts, much like your face lifts, after you receive a facial, at "Floyd the Barber's."
As one brilliant fella once told me, "It's not that complicated."
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achduke
Active member
Paul and James are saying the same thing. We are not saved by works but a person saved produces good works. Producing good works is a sign that you are saved. You are not saved by your works.
The key here is Not of yourself. If we try to do good works on our own we are not saved by them. If we have the holy spirit and our righteous is not our own then we should have good fruit and be doing the works of God.
Now that we are in Christ we are not doing our own works. We are doing the good Works from God.
Nope.
Paul says faith without works.
James says faith with works.
Right.
A saved person also sins in the flesh.
Or are you trying to convince folks that everything a saved person does is a "good deed"? I think you know yourself that everything you do is not a "good deed".
Are you still talking about doing good deeds? Even atheists do good deeds.
The works James is talking about is of the whole Mosaic law, not just good deeds.
Right Divider
Body part
Was it a sin when Cain murdered his brother?
achduke
Active member
Yes. Do you think Cain did not know what the law was?
How did he know to make an offering to God?
Gen 4:7 "If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, SIN lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it."
achduke
Active member
Them why does Paul say not to sin and talks about fruit of the Spirit?
By not sinning you already doing the commandments of God. To sin is to break the law. Paul said do not sin. This is not the reason why we are saved but saved people to not strive to sin. In their mind they have the Spirit who leads them not to sin. They may still sin but they will feel guilt and groans from the holy spirit.
A good tree produces good fruit.
achduke
Active member
Yes but does an atheist do good deeds on there own which is self-righteous or do they do good deeds because they believe?