ROMANS 2:16 WHAT IS PAUL SAYING?

[Grosnick Marowbe]

In Romans 2:16 Paul states: ("In the day when God shall judge the secrets
of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.")
What "Judgement" do you think Paul is speaking of? When we look at
Revelation 20:12 ("And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;
and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book
of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the
books, according to their works.") it gives us an idea of what "Judgement" is
being spoken of.


Some call this, "The Great White Throne Judgement." This is where
the "unsaved" will be judged according to their "works." It mentions
"Works" not "sins" why? The answer is, Christ took care of the sin
question at the cross. He took upon Himself the sins of ALL mankind.
However, only those who place ALL of their faith in Christ and none in
themselves, will receive mercy, forgiveness, and eternal life. The rest
will be judged by their works.

According to Paul, we're living in "The Dispensation of Grace." The
ONLY Gospel today is, Paul's Gospel. (The Grace Gospel) We are
saved by, hearing the Message, placing our faith in Christ as our
Savior, sealed and indwelt by the Holy Spirit and baptized
(not by water) into the "Body of Christ" by the Holy Spirit.

So, it appears that, Paul is saying that, the "Grace Message"
that the "Ascended Christ" gave to him, is the same message
that will be applied at the "Judgement." Either one accepts
Paul's (Christ's) Message or rejects it! This same Gospel is
for Jew and gentile alike today.

What say you?

 

[Caino]

In Romans 2:16 Paul states: ("In the day when God shall judge the secrets
of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.")
What "Judgement" do you think Paul is speaking of? When we look at
Revelation 20:12 ("And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;
and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book
of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the
books, according to their works.") it gives us an idea of what "Judgement" is
being spoken of.


Some call this, "The Great White Throne Judgement." This is where
the "unsaved" will be judged according to their "works." It mentions
"Works" not "sins" why? The answer is, Christ took care of the sin
question at the cross. He took upon Himself the sins of ALL mankind.
However, only those who place ALL of their faith in Christ and none in
themselves, will receive mercy, forgiveness, and eternal life. The rest
will be judged by their works.

According to Paul, we're living in "The Dispensation of Grace." The
ONLY Gospel today is, Paul's Gospel. (The Grace Gospel) We are
saved by, hearing the Message, placing our faith in Christ as our
Savior, sealed and indwelt by the Holy Spirit and baptized
(not by water) into the "Body of Christ" by the Holy Spirit.

So, it appears that, Paul is saying that, the "Grace Message"
that the "Ascended Christ" gave to him, is the same message
that will be applied at the "Judgement." Either one accepts
Paul's (Christ's) Message or rejects it! This same Gospel is
for Jew and gentile alike today.

What say you?

According to this way of thinking, Jesus wasted his time by spending 3+ years teaching his gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven in hopes that the Jews would receive their calling and in turn preach his original gospel to the world; salvation by faith in God and a commitment to do Gods will in our lives as Jesus did in his.

I think Paul was a well intentioned, misinformed preacher to the Pagan world, he made compromises to please the desires of the Pagans who already had a gospel of human sacrifice for sins. Paul had a spiritual rebirth but wasn't taught a new human sacrifice gospel by Jesus. Paul was never an original apostle, he never knew Jesus in the flesh.

Paul's gospel is Paul's gospel, not Jesus'.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

According to this way of thinking, Jesus wasted his time by spending 3+ years teaching his gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven in hopes that the Jews would receive their calling and in turn preach his original gospel to the world; salvation by faith in God and a commitment to do Gods will in our lives as Jesus did in his.

I think Paul was a well intentioned, misinformed preacher to the Pagan world, he made compromises to please the desires of the Pagans who already had a gospel of human sacrifice for sins. Paul had a spiritual rebirth but wasn't taught a new human sacrifice gospel by Jesus. Paul was never an original apostle, he never knew Jesus in the flesh.

Paul's gospel is Paul's gospel, not Jesus'.

Well, first of all, you're a believer in the "Urantia Book." Which
is an "anti-Christian" UFO cult. The UB had its beginnings in the
occult. (Satanic influence) The "book" was supposedly written
and inspired by "beings" who spoke through a "chosen"
human conduit. The HC (Human Conduit) would go to sleep and
a secretary would sit by the bedside and write down what the
"beings" were saying through the HC. Anybody whose interested
in finding out about this, Cult (established in the mid 50s along
with Scientology) can Google: Urantia Book, UFO Cult.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

That's why it's crucial to know, who is saying what on a Christian Forum.
Mormons, Atheists, Cultists, mystics, etc, are posting on this forum as well
as, True Believers in Christianity. True Christianity is the "minority" around
here.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Caino and Freelight are both involved with the Urantia Book, to varying degrees.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

One of Satan's devises is to infiltrate Christian forums such as this. The "Truth"
is surrounded by wickedness.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Hi bump

 

[Caino]

Well, first of all, you're a believer in the "Urantia Book." Which
is an "anti-Christian" UFO cult. The UB had its beginnings in the
occult. (Satanic influence) The "book" was supposedly written
and inspired by "beings" who spoke through a "chosen"
human conduit. The HC (Human Conduit) would go to sleep and
a secretary would sit by the bedside and write down what the
"beings" were saying through the HC. Anybody whose interested
in finding out about this, Cult (established in the mid 50s along
with Scientology) can Google: Urantia Book, UFO Cult.

Ok, but what about my reply? It wouldn't matter if I was Mickey Mouse or Darth Vader, Jesus still labored to preach his original gospel to the Jews, but Christians strangely avoids that fact, instead they imply Jesus was just goofing around pretending to be interested in leading his people into his original gospel, biding his time until he could be killed as a substitute for --->you<--- taking some personal responsibility, admitting your sin, asking for and receiving forgiveness from God. REAL salvation as oposed to legalistic, theoretical salvation.

For Christians it's as if you are saying that the chosen people's rejection of the gospel....was the gospel and that now we are to simply acknowlege that being rejected and killed is why we are saved.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Ok, but what about my reply? It wouldn't matter if I was Mickey Mouse or Darth Vader, Jesus still labored to preach his original gospel to the Jews, but Christians strangely avoids that fact, instead they imply Jesus was just goofing around pretending to be interested in leading his people into his original gospel, biding his time until he could be killed as a substitute for --->you<--- taking some personal responsibility, admitting your sin, asking for and receiving forgiveness from God. REAL salvation as oposed to legalistic, theoretical salvation.

For Christians it's as if you are saying that the chosen people's rejection of the gospel....was the gospel and that now we are to simply acknowlege that being rejected and killed is why we are saved.

I won't answer "Cultists" questions on this thread. It's a Christian
thread. Not for you!

 

[Caino]

I won't answer "Cultists" questions on this thread. It's a Christian
thread. Not for you!

That is your answer, you can't defend the obveous.

 

[daqq]

In Romans 2:16 Paul states: ("In the day when God shall judge the secrets
of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.")
What "Judgement" do you think Paul is speaking of? When we look at
Revelation 20:12 ("And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;
and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book
of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the
books, according to their works.") it gives us an idea of what "Judgement" is
being spoken of.


Some call this, "The Great White Throne Judgement." This is where
the "unsaved" will be judged according to their "works." It mentions
"Works" not "sins" why? The answer is, Christ took care of the sin
question at the cross. He took upon Himself the sins of ALL mankind.
However, only those who place ALL of their faith in Christ and none in
themselves, will receive mercy, forgiveness, and eternal life. The rest
will be judged by their works.

According to Paul, we're living in "The Dispensation of Grace." The
ONLY Gospel today is, Paul's Gospel. (The Grace Gospel) We are
saved by, hearing the Message, placing our faith in Christ as our
Savior, sealed and indwelt by the Holy Spirit and baptized
(not by water) into the "Body of Christ" by the Holy Spirit.

So, it appears that, Paul is saying that, the "Grace Message"
that the "Ascended Christ" gave to him, is the same message
that will be applied at the "Judgement." Either one accepts
Paul's (Christ's) Message or rejects it! This same Gospel is
for Jew and gentile alike today.

What say you?

Paul says he is a Pharisee of Pharisees and even after his conversion he confesses that he continues to believe all things having been written in the Torah and the Prophets, ("But this I confess unto thee, that after the Way which they call heresy, [a sect] so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Torah and in the Prophets", Acts 24:14). If therefore you do not believe as Paul then you do not know the good news gospel according to Paul and are fooling yourself.

There are four faces of the anthropon-man-faced just as there are four generations to the one man, like four seasons in the one full year; autumn, winter, spring, and the summer of your harvest. Two of the countenance-faces must breathe out his last, for so it is written, "Strike the Shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered, (Mat 26:31) and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, (for the man is the land) says YHWH, that two parts therein shall be cut off and breathe his last: but the third part shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on My Name, (YHWH) and I will hear them. I will say, It is my people, and they shall say, YHWH is my Elohim", (Zec 13:7-9). So the four faces commence with a fourth part given over unto Thanatos-Death, (Rev 6:8 KJV) then the third part, (Rev 9:18 KJV) then there be two, (2 Cor 12:1-4 KJV, Rev 11:3-4 KJV).

Perhaps then if this has not already come to pass in your walk, (each in his or her own appointed times; and none shall be alone in his appointed times) then when you get down to the duo in your Garden-Paradise, one day, if indeed you overcome in your appointed time, you will hear the words "Anabatehode!", (one to the third heaven and one to the Paradise) even as Paul learned it from the Revelation of Yeshua, (Gal 1:12 KJV). And this is either with the Torah or without: For when the nations not having the Torah do by nature the things of the Torah, those not having the Torah are unto themselves a law, who show forth the work of the Torah written in their hearts: the inner law jointly witnessing-testifying together with their own conscience unto themselves, and between one another the resulting thoughts Accusing them, (being their own Accuser) or even making a defense in the Day when Elohim shall judge the secrets of men according to the good message I have received through [the Revelation of] Messiah Yeshua, (Rom 2:14-16). No one outsmarts the Great Psychologist who makes us all, (and He makes us twain, like Esau and Yakob, from one selfsame lump of clay: one a vessel of spirit appointed to destruction and the other a vessel of spirit appointed unto honor, Rom 9:13-23 KJV). For we must all appear before the Bema Judgment Seat of Messiah; so that every one may receive the things done in the body, according to what has been done, whether for the good, or whether for the evil. Knowing therefore the terror of the Master, we persuade men, (2 Cor 5:10-11a). For the kingdom of the heavens is like unto a net, (Mat 13:47-50 KJV). Therefore examine your own self, O man, whether you truly be in and of the faith: prove your own self, know your own self, that Messiah Yeshua truly be in you through the Testimony of Yeshua written for you in the Gospel accounts, so that you not end up the rotting carcass of a castaway fish, (2 Cor 13:5, Mat 13:47). Perhaps then you will begin to understand that we who know the terror of the Master are not reprobate-castaways like as you have foolishly judged in your blindness to what is written.

:sheep:

 

[Nick M]

In Romans 2:16 Paul states: ("In the day when God shall judge the secrets
of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.")

Godstruth, meshak, you know the list will have their ways exposed, and Moses (the law) will be the accuser. They are like white washed tombs. They preach that they do good. They do not, and their secrets of evil will be revealed according to the law.

That is my take. The whole context gives it up. No need for a pope to tell us what it means.

1Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?....12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

The circumcision of TOL have sinned in the law and will be judged by it.

 

[Zeke]

According to this way of thinking, Jesus wasted his time by spending 3+ years teaching his gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven in hopes that the Jews would receive their calling and in turn preach his original gospel to the world; salvation by faith in God and a commitment to do Gods will in our lives as Jesus did in his.

I think Paul was a well intentioned, misinformed preacher to the Pagan world, he made compromises to please the desires of the Pagans who already had a gospel of human sacrifice for sins. Paul had a spiritual rebirth but wasn't taught a new human sacrifice gospel by Jesus. Paul was never an original apostle, he never knew Jesus in the flesh.

Paul's gospel is Paul's gospel, not Jesus'.

Though the graft containing Paul's original writings is no where to be found except in the minds of westernized dogma, the inner teaching that can be gleaned from Galatians and Ephesians connects with the inner kingdom being addressed in the Jesus motif concerning the none observable kingdom of God within man Luke 17:20-21. The literal Jesus story has many problems that make the concerns over Paul mute. The teaching was always inwardly just like Paul also states.

 

[daqq]

Godstruth, meshak, you know the list will have their ways exposed, and Moses (the law) will be the accuser. They are like white washed tombs. They preach that they do good. They do not, and their secrets of evil will be revealed according to the law.

That is my take. The whole context gives it up. No need for a pope to tell us what it means.

1Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?....12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

The circumcision of TOL have sinned in the law and will be judged by it.

Look closer at the portion you did not highlight which I did, (in yellow). The problem is SIN. If you sin without the Torah you will likewise perish without the Torah so your words are empty because you focus only on that portion which suits your own paradigm. In addition you do not appear to understand that circumcision is truly supernal and spiritual. Claiming that you are not of the circumcision only makes you uncircumcised in heart and an outsider in the supernal sense. It does not always mean circumcision of the flesh, (which is useless just as Paul argues). Messiah is become the Minister of Circumcision:

Romans 15:7-10 ASV
7. Wherefore receive ye one another, even as Christ also received you, to the glory of God.
8. For I say that Christ hath been made a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, that he might confirm the promises given unto the fathers,
9. and that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, Therefore will I give praise unto thee among the Gentiles, And sing unto thy name.
10. And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.

You and your OP friend walk according to the flesh, seeing all things Scripture as according to the eyes and mind of the carnal flesh man nature which according to Paul ends in death. So much for you powerful neg-rep capabilities, O mighty one. :crackup:

:sheep:

 

[daqq]

:sheep:

 

[Dan Emanuel]

2 Thessalonian's 1

3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth; 4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: 6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.​

Daniel

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

That is your answer, you can't defend the obveous.

You spelled "obvious" wrong.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Paul says he is a Pharisee of Pharisees and even after his conversion he confesses that he continues to believe all things having been written in the Torah and the Prophets, ("But this I confess unto thee, that after the Way which they call heresy, [a sect] so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Torah and in the Prophets", Acts 24:14). If therefore you do not believe as Paul then you do not know the good news gospel according to Paul and are fooling yourself.

There are four faces of the anthropon-man-faced just as there are four generations to the one man, like four seasons in the one full year; autumn, winter, spring, and the summer of your harvest. Two of the countenance-faces must breathe out his last, for so it is written, "Strike the Shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered, (Mat 26:31) and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, (for the man is the land) says YHWH, that two parts therein shall be cut off and breathe his last: but the third part shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on My Name, (YHWH) and I will hear them. I will say, It is my people, and they shall say, YHWH is my Elohim", (Zec 13:7-9). So the four faces commence with a fourth part given over unto Thanatos-Death, (Rev 6:8 KJV) then the third part, (Rev 9:18 KJV) then there be two, (2 Cor 12:1-4 KJV, Rev 11:3-4 KJV).

Perhaps then if this has not already come to pass in your walk, (each in his or her own appointed times; and none shall be alone in his appointed times) then when you get down to the duo in your Garden-Paradise, one day, if indeed you overcome in your appointed time, you will hear the words "Anabatehode!", (one to the third heaven and one to the Paradise) even as Paul learned it from the Revelation of Yeshua, (Gal 1:12 KJV). And this is either with the Torah or without: For when the nations not having the Torah do by nature the things of the Torah, those not having the Torah are unto themselves a law, who show forth the work of the Torah written in their hearts: the inner law jointly witnessing-testifying together with their own conscience unto themselves, and between one another the resulting thoughts Accusing them, (being their own Accuser) or even making a defense in the Day when Elohim shall judge the secrets of men according to the good message I have received through [the Revelation of] Messiah Yeshua, (Rom 2:14-16). No one outsmarts the Great Psychologist who makes us all, (and He makes us twain, like Esau and Yakob, from one selfsame lump of clay: one a vessel of spirit appointed to destruction and the other a vessel of spirit appointed unto honor, Rom 9:13-23 KJV). For we must all appear before the Bema Judgment Seat of Messiah; so that every one may receive the things done in the body, according to what has been done, whether for the good, or whether for the evil. Knowing therefore the terror of the Master, we persuade men, (2 Cor 5:10-11a). For the kingdom of the heavens is like unto a net, (Mat 13:47-50 KJV). Therefore examine your own self, O man, whether you truly be in and of the faith: prove your own self, know your own self, that Messiah Yeshua truly be in you through the Testimony of Yeshua written for you in the Gospel accounts, so that you not end up the rotting carcass of a castaway fish, (2 Cor 13:5, Mat 13:47). Perhaps then you will begin to understand that we who know the terror of the Master are not reprobate-castaways like as you have foolishly judged in your blindness to what is written.

:sheep:

Should I address you as, "Moron?" Just asking?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

It stands to reason that, a thread relating to Paul's Gospel, will attract a few,
Morons, Cultists, Mystics, Imbeciles, and even a few insane types. I expect
that. However, once in a great while, a "True Believe" will find their way to
this type of thread. Hopefully, anyway?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Mystics, cultists, weirdo's, creepy types, and those, less than sane seem to
gravitate towards my threads. I guess I get on their nerves a bit? That's okay.
In the scheme of things, does it really matter? Nah.