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Proof that Paul didn't preach a different gospel than Peter

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    God's Truth,

    Earlier I asked you the following question:
    Is the "good news" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, not a gospel, especially since it brings life to those who believe?:

    "But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:31).

    And here is your answer:



    As usual you evaded my question.
    I have not evaded anything but evil.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by heir View Post
      It's not the "gospel of the kingdom". People around here, sure have problems with the meaning of terms.
      What was Saul preaching in Jerusalem when he was with the other Apostles?:
      "And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple. But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus. And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem. And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him" (Acts 9:26-29).

      Remember, the other Apostles were not aware of the gospel which Paul preached to the Gentiles at that time. They did not learn about that gospel until later at the First Jerusalem Council (Acts 15).

      So what gospel was being preached at Acts 9:29?

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
        I have not evaded anything but evil.
        You did not answer my question so it is obvious to anyone who will use their brain that you did evade it:

        Earlier I asked you the following question:
        Is the "good news" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, not a gospel, especially since it brings life to those who believe?:

        "But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:31).

        And here is your answer:

        Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
        Believe that you can come to Jesus to have forgiveness of sins.
        You are delusional if you think that you answered my question.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
          You did not answer my question so it is obvious to anyone who will use their brain that you did evade it:

          Earlier I asked you the following question:
          Is the "good news" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, not a gospel, especially since it brings life to those who believe?:

          "But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:31).

          And here is your answer:



          You are delusional if you think that you answered my question.
          I answered your question. Some people just cannot see.
          Oh how I love the Word of God!

          Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by heir View Post
            Paul NEVER preached the gospel of the kingdom!
            Are you sure?

            It is written, "And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith and saying, 'We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.'"

            Isn't it obvious that Paul preached the kingdom of God to the congregations in Gentile communities?

            But what about Jews?
            So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening.
            (Acts 28:23 NKJV)

            Then Paul dwelt two whole years in his own rented house and received all who came to him, preaching the kingdom of God and teaching the things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ with all confidence, no one forbidding him. (Acts 28:30-31 NKJV)

            If you are forbidding Paul to preach the kingdom of God to Jews and Gentiles you're too late. It's already done.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
              I answered your question. Some people just cannot see.
              You are delusional. Here is my question again:
              Is the "good news" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, not a gospel, especially since it brings life to those who believe?

              Here is the only thing which you said and that does not answer my question:

              Believe that you can come to Jesus to have forgiveness of sins.
              That does not answer my question.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                You are delusional. Here is my question again:
                You should be more careful how you judge.

                Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                Is the "good news" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, not a gospel, especially since it brings life to those who believe?

                Here is the only thing which you said and that does not answer my question:



                That does not answer my question.
                I did answer you. You just did not like the answer.

                Jesus is the good news. Believe in Jesus.
                Oh how I love the Word of God!

                Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                  What was Saul preaching in Jerusalem when he was with the other Apostles?:
                  "And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple. But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus. And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem. And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him" (Acts 9:26-29).

                  Remember, the other Apostles were not aware of the gospel which Paul preached to the Gentiles at that time. They did not learn about that gospel until later at the First Jerusalem Council (Acts 15).

                  So what gospel was being preached at Acts 9:29?
                  Being that Paul just returned from Arabia together with the witness of his writings to these various people; often as a reminder to them of what he had shared with them; I'd say he preached the Jesus Christ of Romans 1-16 and Ephesians 1-6.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by heir View Post
                    Paul NEVER preached the gospel of the kingdom! He could not have even been forgiven under it!

                    Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

                    Matthew 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


                    It's one of the reasons we know that the Lord was going to do something different and showed it by the saving of Paul (then Saul).


                    1 Timothy 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

                    1 Timothy 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

                    1 Timothy 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

                    1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

                    1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
                    You don't even grasped what and where the Kingdom is! Luke 17:20-21 matches the Human body being the temple of the Spirit (Jesus Motif) which Paul certainly stated was the case, the exoteric veil of the literal interpretation kills the spiritual allegory that Paul also remarked about 2Cor 3:6 and Galatians 4:24-26.
                    Trying to awaken the divine principle in the belly of the fish.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Zeke View Post
                      You don't even grasped what and where the Kingdom is! Luke 17:20-21 matches the Human body being the temple of the Spirit (Jesus Motif) which Paul certainly stated was the case, the exoteric veil of the literal interpretation kills the spiritual allegory that Paul also remarked about 2Cor 3:6 and Galatians 4:24-26.
                      Your head isn't twisted on tight enough! I believe you're
                      continually losing "Grey Matter."

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by tetelestai View Post
                        According to heir, Peter's epistle to the Galatians is a different gospel than Paul's epistle to the Galatians.


                        Really? Heir would scoop that low to say that, being suckered by false arminians with thier lying theologies? The writings of Peter and Paul that is included in the 66 book Bible was inspired by God. Writings not included in that bible isn't inspired by God like the roman catholic denomination claims. How does the two inspired writings by the same God become two different gospels? Then Heir denied the inspired Word of God. Not surprised at all coming from false arminianism. It is thier nature to naturally insult the elect's Lord and take over the universe with thier misunderstood free wills.
                        Calibrated by the Gospel

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Danoh View Post
                          Being that Paul just returned from Arabia together with the witness of his writings to these various people; often as a reminder to them of what he had shared with them; I'd say he preached the Jesus Christ of Romans 1-16 and Ephesians 1-6.
                          No, Paul had not yet gone to Arabia at that time.
                          "But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus" (Gal.1:15-17; NIV).

                          After Paul's encounter with the Lord on the Damascus road he went immediately to Damascus and not Arabia. And the verses which I quoted are a narrative of the events since he arrived in Damascus and do not show any trip to Arabia. That trip had to come later.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Zeke View Post
                            You don't even grasped what and where the Kingdom is! Luke 17:20-21 matches the Human body being the temple of the Spirit (Jesus Motif) which Paul certainly stated was the case, the exoteric veil of the literal interpretation kills the spiritual allegory that Paul also remarked about 2Cor 3:6 and Galatians 4:24-26.
                            You are dead wrong.

                            Early Acts relates that those Acts 2 Believers; empowered, and guided by the Holy Spirit as they as to their every thought and action, continued to worship and teach in the Temple at Jerusalem - "temples" in "the Temple."

                            Acts 2:

                            45. And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
                            46. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
                            47. Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

                            Acts 3:

                            1. Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
                            2. And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
                            3. Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.

                            That's "two witnesses" of others just like it.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                              No, Paul had not yet gone to Arabia at that time.
                              "But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus" (Gal.1:15-17; NIV).

                              After Paul's encounter with the Lord on the Damascus road he went immediately to Damascus and not Arabia. And the verses which I quoted are a narrative of the events since he arrived in Damascus and do not show any trip to Arabia. That trip had to come later.
                              It appears to read as follows...

                              Acts 9:

                              8. And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

                              19. And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
                              20. And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

                              Then you have the Galatians account - Galatians 1:

                              15. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
                              16. To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
                              17. Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

                              Verse 16 relates what Ananias was told by the Lord to relate to Paul, as Ananias was being used of the Lord as a witness before Israel and the Believing remnant not only of Paul's conversion, but of his having been sent to the Gentiles before Israel's due time conversion.

                              Acts 22:

                              10. And I said, What shall I do, LORD? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
                              11. And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
                              12. And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
                              13. Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
                              14. And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
                              15. For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

                              The details of verse 15, as to what Ananias related to Paul from the Lord?

                              Acts 9:

                              13. Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
                              14. And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
                              15. But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
                              16. For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

                              Why Ananias?

                              Because he, being "a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there," 22:12, was a perfect witness as a bridge of the change now afoot.

                              A change that would be suspect, as Acts records it was for a time. The means around this being a witness well known for being devout according to the law - Isaiah 8:

                              18. Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.
                              19. And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
                              20. To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

                              Later, Barnabas would also be a witness of good report among all the Jews, whom the Lord would use as a witness of Paul's validity, Acts 4:36, 37; 9:26, 27.

                              In fact, whenever I deal with Messianics who assert Isaiah 8:20against Paul, the above are some of the examples I make use of.

                              But anyway, we have this, that appears to read as follows...

                              Acts 9:

                              8. And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

                              19. And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
                              20. And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

                              Then you have the Galatians account - Galatians 1:

                              15. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
                              16. To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
                              17. Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

                              Together, in light of the above, they read as follows:

                              Acts 9:19

                              A. And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.

                              Paul has just found out the following from Ananias - Galatians 1:

                              15. ...pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
                              16. To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
                              17. Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

                              It is then - after his return from Arabia - that Acts 9:19 B comes in - "Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
                              20. And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

                              In short, he goes into Damascus in a state of shock for he has met face to face with the God of his fathers, in the person of God the Son: Jesus of Nazareth.

                              Remember the shock of 911 on the world?

                              Well, here was Paul's - Acts 9:11

                              And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,

                              Shock being that sate where a total re-orientation often begins.

                              In Damascus, now all ears - literally! - he is informed by Ananias ...The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth. Acts 22:14.

                              The details of which are... Acts 9:15's..."he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

                              16. For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

                              Which Paul summarizes in Galatians 1 as:

                              15. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
                              16. To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
                              17. Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

                              And Acts relates - Acts 9: 19B...Then was Saul certain days with the
                              disciples which were at Damascus.
                              20. And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

                              In short, in Arabia, he learns directly from the God of his fathers, just as Moses had centuries before him.

                              What does he learn?

                              Galatians 4:

                              25. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
                              26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

                              2 Corinthians 3:

                              14. ...their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
                              15. ...even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

                              Thus, he is preaching to the Jew first that Jesus is the Son of Christ, knowing full well that Jerusalem has been concluded in bondage with her children.

                              The intent of this "to the Jew first" being two-fold - that he "might save some" even as Israel is "diminishing away" to its status before God now as just another heathen nation, but also, as a continuing witness against their own, witness against themselves in their continuing resistance of the Holy Spirit speaking to them now, through Paul, Acts 13; Romans 9-11.

                              As he later reminded the Thessalonians of Acts 17 - to whom he had also preached that "Jesus is very Christ..."

                              1 Thessalonians 2:

                              13. For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of
                              God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
                              14. For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
                              15. Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
                              16. Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

                              That's what; the first or second epistle he wrote not to long after his having first met them Mid-Acts.

                              Read both 1 and 2 Thessalonians - see all that Paul is merely reminding them of as to what he had preached and taught unto them - Romans / Ephesians truth through and through.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by tetelestai View Post
                                In a previous thread started by heir, heir closed the thread because she knows that 2 Peter 3 completely destroys her "two gospel" theory.

                                Here is the post that upset heir so much, that she closed the thread:


                                Paul said the following to the Galatians:

                                (Gal 1:8 KJV) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

                                Peter also wrote an epistle to the Galatians:

                                (1 Peter 1:1 KJV) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

                                According to heir, Peter's epistle to the Galatians is a different gospel than Paul's epistle to the Galatians.

                                But, Paul tells the Galatians if anyone preaches a different gospel he preached to them, that they are to be accursed.

                                So, pretend your a Galatian in Galatia circa 55AD. A letter comes to your city from the Apostle Paul, and the letter says that if anyone preaches a different gospel, they are to be accursed. Then a letter comes to your city from Peter (that heir claims is a different gospel).

                                If what heir claims is true, then Peter, and anyone who preached what Peter sent to the Galatians would be accursed if it was really a different gospel (heir's claim)

                                So, it's impossible that Peter and Paul preached different gospels to the Galatians. Yet, that is what heir claims.

                                heir likes to quote 1 Cor 15:1-4, but she apparently doesn't read past verse 4

                                (1 Cor 15:11 KJV) Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

                                Galatians was written in AD 49. - 1 Peter was written in AD 62-64, possibly from Rome. see, 14 years later Paul saw Peter again -

                                let's go back first - Galatians 1:6 KJV - Galatians 1:12 KJV -

                                Galatians 1:15 KJV - But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by His Grace,

                                Galatians 1:16 KJV -

                                Galatians 1:17 KJV -

                                Galatians 1:18 KJV - Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

                                not a very long stay with Peter AFTER Paul's revelations. perhaps Peter didn't quite understand, - 2Peter 3:16 KJV - because 14 years later,, maybe just AFTER Peter sent his letter; perhaps before -

                                Paul rebuked Peter because Peter was wrong. End of thread

                                and this is what Paul had to say to Peter 14 years after staying with him


                                Galatians 2:1 KJV -

                                Galatians 2:2 KJV - Galatians 2:4 KJV -

                                Galatians 2:7 KJV -

                                Galatians 2:8 KJV - Galatians 2:9 KJV

                                Acts 22:18 KJV - Acts 22:21 KJV - Acts 26:17 KJV -

                                Comment

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