Jesus died at about 3 PM Hebrew time on Nisan 14, a Wednesday.
Matthew 12:40
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Jesus died at about 3 PM Hebrew time on Nisan 14, a Wednesday.
WoundedEgo
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So when did he celebrate the Passover seder?
Jesus observed his Passover the evening he was betrayed which was the evening that began the 14th. The next morning he was condemned, beaten, and crucified. He was laid in a tomb just as the 15th began at sundown. He was resurrected 72 hours later as Sunday began.
WoundedEgo
New member
The evening of Nisan 14 (sounds like 2014 model of the popular Japanese car) all the lambs would have been killed.
But before they could prepare dinner they were already into Nisan 14:
Mar 14:12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?
The Mosaic Passover was the next afternoon, the afternoon of the 14th.
WoundedEgo
New member
So your opinion is that Jews have their history incorrect. The actual seder was not in the evening but rather in the afternoon.
Should we alert the media?
Lon
Well-known member
The 70 weeks prophecy in Daniel. I'm not sure how they are thinking that this wasn't a literal counting of 3 days, however. I've not met anyone that didn't think it was 3 days.
John 2:19 and Mark 14:58 add to the notion it was a literal 3 days. Do you have a link of what these people believe?
I had to reread the OP a couple of times to get the gist. For me, the problem is I'm not familiar with the greater context of the debate. Like you, I take 3 days to be 3 days but I haven't been shown a good reason not to do so. By accounts and statements in scripture, it seems fairly straightforward to me.
The 'evening and then morning' would indicate days were actually, by our reckoning, two days so observing those days would begin and end differently (A new day begins on the Jewish calendar in the evening, if I remember correctly). What is the controversy, though? That we'd celebrate the actual days wrongly?
Lon
Well-known member
Here is an article that portrays two ways of understanding this.
Exo 12:5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
Exo 12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
Exo 12:7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
Exo 12:8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.
Num 9:2 Let the children of Israel also keep the passover at his appointed season.
Num 9:3 In the fourteenth day of this month, at even, ye shall keep it in his appointed season: according to all the rites of it, and according to all the ceremonies thereof, shall ye keep it.
Num 9:4 And Moses spake unto the children of Israel, that they should keep the passover.
Num 9:5 And they kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the first month at even in the wilderness of Sinai: according to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so did the children of Israel.
GOD's appointed time for Israel to kill the passover lamb is the evening of the 14th of Abib/Nisan.
evening-
‛ereḇ: A masculine noun referring to evening, dusk; night. It is used consistently to indicate the close of the day, evening, sunset. The phrase lip̱nôt-‛āreḇ, literally, the turning of the evening, means towards evening (Gen_24:63; Deu_23:11 [12]). The term bên hā‛arbayim means between the evening, that is at dusk or at twilight (Exo_12:6; Exo_16:12; Exo_30:8). Le‛eṯ ‛ereḇ means at the time of sunset, evening (Gen_8:11). The phrase ṣillê ‛ereḇ means shadows of evening (Jer_6:4).
So....Israel was to kill the passover lamb at the close of the day of the 14th Nisan and they were to eat it at the beginning of the 15th, which would begin at sunset of the 14th.
Mar 14:12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?
Mar 14:16 And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
Mark 14:12-16 is necessarily the 14th Nisan.
Mar 14:17 And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.
Mar 14:18 And as they sat and did eat,
Mark 14:18 is necessarily the beginning of the 15th Nisan after the sunset of the 14th.
Mar 14:26 And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives.
Mark 14:26 is still the beginning night time of the 15th Nisan.
Mar 14:53 And they led Jesus away to the high priest: and with him were assembled all the chief priests and the elders and the scribes.
Mark 14:53 is still the night of the 15th.
Mar 15:1 And straightway in the morning the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes and the whole council, and bound Jesus, and carried him away, and delivered him to Pilate.
Mark 15:1 is the morning beginning daylight time of the 15th.
Mar 15:25 And it was the third hour, and they crucified him.
Mark 15:25 is around 9:00am still the 15th.
Mar 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Mark 15:34 is around 3:00pm afternoon of the 15th when Jesus died.
Mar 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
Mark 15:42 is twilight/even/sundown of the 15th Nisan which is the preparation(paraskeue) for the seventh day weekly Sabbath.
Mar 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
Mark 16:1 says that the weekly seventh day Sabbath had just passed and 16:2 says that they came to the sepulchre on the first day of the week at sunrise which would be the 17th Nisan.
Where does anyone see an extra day or days accounted for in this historical chronological narrative?
Exo 12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
Exo 12:7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
Exo 12:8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.
Num 9:2 Let the children of Israel also keep the passover at his appointed season.
Num 9:3 In the fourteenth day of this month, at even, ye shall keep it in his appointed season: according to all the rites of it, and according to all the ceremonies thereof, shall ye keep it.
Num 9:4 And Moses spake unto the children of Israel, that they should keep the passover.
Num 9:5 And they kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the first month at even in the wilderness of Sinai: according to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so did the children of Israel.
GOD's appointed time for Israel to kill the passover lamb is the evening of the 14th of Abib/Nisan.
evening-
‛ereḇ: A masculine noun referring to evening, dusk; night. It is used consistently to indicate the close of the day, evening, sunset. The phrase lip̱nôt-‛āreḇ, literally, the turning of the evening, means towards evening (Gen_24:63; Deu_23:11 [12]). The term bên hā‛arbayim means between the evening, that is at dusk or at twilight (Exo_12:6; Exo_16:12; Exo_30:8). Le‛eṯ ‛ereḇ means at the time of sunset, evening (Gen_8:11). The phrase ṣillê ‛ereḇ means shadows of evening (Jer_6:4).
So....Israel was to kill the passover lamb at the close of the day of the 14th Nisan and they were to eat it at the beginning of the 15th, which would begin at sunset of the 14th.
Mar 14:12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?
Mar 14:16 And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
Mark 14:12-16 is necessarily the 14th Nisan.
Mar 14:17 And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.
Mar 14:18 And as they sat and did eat,
Mark 14:18 is necessarily the beginning of the 15th Nisan after the sunset of the 14th.
Mar 14:26 And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives.
Mark 14:26 is still the beginning night time of the 15th Nisan.
Mar 14:53 And they led Jesus away to the high priest: and with him were assembled all the chief priests and the elders and the scribes.
Mark 14:53 is still the night of the 15th.
Mar 15:1 And straightway in the morning the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes and the whole council, and bound Jesus, and carried him away, and delivered him to Pilate.
Mark 15:1 is the morning beginning daylight time of the 15th.
Mar 15:25 And it was the third hour, and they crucified him.
Mark 15:25 is around 9:00am still the 15th.
Mar 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Mark 15:34 is around 3:00pm afternoon of the 15th when Jesus died.
Mar 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
Mark 15:42 is twilight/even/sundown of the 15th Nisan which is the preparation(paraskeue) for the seventh day weekly Sabbath.
Mar 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
Mark 16:1 says that the weekly seventh day Sabbath had just passed and 16:2 says that they came to the sepulchre on the first day of the week at sunrise which would be the 17th Nisan.
Where does anyone see an extra day or days accounted for in this historical chronological narrative?
genuineoriginal
New member
If that is the only sign you accept, then you are adding yourself to the evil and adulterous generation.
Luke 11:29-32 29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet. 30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation. 31 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here. 32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. |
Do you really want to be condemned with the evil generation, or are you willing to accept the other signs?
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Why are you twisting what I said?
I quoted to you the scripture where Jesus said (not I said) that no sign would be given except the sign of Jonah. You seem to be saying Jesus was mistaken. Why? What are you trying to prove?
yeshuaslavejeff
New member
the controversy is simply because the world's largest deceiving chruch says it was 2 night times, so just by that a person of truth could see that it must be 3.
Scripture of course says 3 days and 3 nights, and it works out that only 72 hours fulfills all of Scripture concerning this.
Scripture of course says 3 days and 3 nights, and it works out that only 72 hours fulfills all of Scripture concerning this.
Lon,
re: "Here is an article that portrays two ways of understanding this."
I don't see where the article provides writing from the first century or before which shows that a phrase stating a certain number of days and/or a certain number of nights was ever used when the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least parts of each one of the specified number of days and at least parts of each one of the specified number of nights.
re: "Here is an article that portrays two ways of understanding this."
I don't see where the article provides writing from the first century or before which shows that a phrase stating a certain number of days and/or a certain number of nights was ever used when the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least parts of each one of the specified number of days and at least parts of each one of the specified number of nights.
14th Nisan:
Exo 12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
Luk 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
Luk 22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
Luk 22:11 And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
Luk 22:12 And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready.
Luk 22:13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
15th Nisan:
Luk 22:14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
Luk 22:54 Then took they him, and led him, and brought him into the high priest's house. And Peter followed afar off.
Luk 23:1 And the whole multitude of them arose, and led him unto Pilate.
Luk 23:33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
Luk 23:53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
Luk 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
16th Nisan:
Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
17th Nisan:
Luk 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
Luk 24:2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
Luk 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
Luk 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
Luk 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Exo 12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
Luk 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
Luk 22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
Luk 22:11 And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
Luk 22:12 And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready.
Luk 22:13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
15th Nisan:
Luk 22:14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
Luk 22:54 Then took they him, and led him, and brought him into the high priest's house. And Peter followed afar off.
Luk 23:1 And the whole multitude of them arose, and led him unto Pilate.
Luk 23:33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
Luk 23:53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
Luk 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
16th Nisan:
Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
17th Nisan:
Luk 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
Luk 24:2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
Luk 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
Luk 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
Luk 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
genuineoriginal
New member
Jesus said no sign except the sign of Jonah would be given to who?
It wasn't the signs given to the disciples or to anyone else that believed.
The sign of Jonah was only for the evil and adulterous generation, who already made up their mind that no sign from Jesus would be accepted.
I am not twisting what you said, I am trying to untwist your thinking about the sign of Jonah.
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