I would expect translators to use a dictionary for the meaning of words
Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
- Start date
I would expect translators to use a dictionary for the meaning of words
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Plan? What plan? To be surrounded by or in flames to begin with?! Then, somehow manage to speak while in such fiery torment and only request one drop of water for his tongue?!
Get real...
are you still an universalist? -
is it the thought of eternal suffering that forces this belief?
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
I'm not an 'anythingalist' nowadays.
I'm hardly averse to the prospect of all life and everything being restored though. I doubt any Universalist would tell you that their belief was forced regardless...
how do you feel about annihilation?
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Nothing particularly. How do you feel about it?
it is the only thing that makes sense
Neither of us are under any obligation to agree with each other, but we are all under an obligation to agree with God. I believe hell is real for many reasons based upon several scriptures and I don't find your arguments for your position persuasive.
Cross Reference
New member
We were created in the image of God. God has a soul. He is the maker of souls. We are souls. God made souls like His and put them in human flesh. For this reason alone, souls are immortal and that upon the death of the "body" the soul merely departs to reside somewhere else until reunited with its resurrected body, exampled here by God for our understanding:
"And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself." 1 Samuel 28:12-14 (KJV)
"And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself." 1 Samuel 28:12-14 (KJV)
why would God create an immortal soul if there was a chance it would have to suffer eternally?
Cross Reference
New member
Assuming your belief in the sovereignty of God, as a Calvinist would have it be understood: If a soul could be destroyed [made to no longer exist] where, for a surety, would mans hope for eternal life lie?
just search the bible for eternal life -
Jesus makes it very clear what you have to do to obtain eternal life
Cross Reference,
re: ". So what's yur problem in acceptingit as He states it?"
I have no problem with accepting it as the Messiah states it. The problem is that the statement is from the New Testament and not the Old. Or when you wrote "OT" were you not referring to the books of Genesis through Malachi? Also, the Messiah's statement is not applicable to your previous comment because no where in the statement does He say that the rich man's torment was to last eternally.
re: "Consider your Braille machine has failed you.."
I have no idea what that means. Perhaps you could explain?
re: "Your whole demeanor is one big cherry picking..."
How can "demeanor" - and particularlly in this discussion - be classified as cherry picking? If any cherry picking is going on, it's your inapplicable trotting out of the Luke passage in an effort to support your assertion of eternal torment.
re: ". So what's yur problem in acceptingit as He states it?"
I have no problem with accepting it as the Messiah states it. The problem is that the statement is from the New Testament and not the Old. Or when you wrote "OT" were you not referring to the books of Genesis through Malachi? Also, the Messiah's statement is not applicable to your previous comment because no where in the statement does He say that the rich man's torment was to last eternally.
re: "Consider your Braille machine has failed you.."
I have no idea what that means. Perhaps you could explain?
re: "Your whole demeanor is one big cherry picking..."
How can "demeanor" - and particularlly in this discussion - be classified as cherry picking? If any cherry picking is going on, it's your inapplicable trotting out of the Luke passage in an effort to support your assertion of eternal torment.
Last edited:
Cross Reference
New member
Context throughout scripture in both the OT and NT infers-implies eternal, as in everlasting, as in never-ending, hell fire and brimstone, where the "worm never dies". Take it from that perspective if you are sincerely looking for understanding.
Bull-lone-eee!!!
I SHOWED YOU the scripture that shows that not only CAN a soul die, but the soul that sins SHALL die.
Just because you ignore scripture, that doesn't mean the scripture isn't there.
Ezekiel 18:4
Matthew 10:28
Yes, a soul can definitely die and the wages of sin IS death.
Cross Reference
New member
Then perhaps you can answer this:
Assuming your belief in the sovereignty of God, as a Calvinist would have it be understood: If a soul could be destroyed [made to no longer exist] where, for a surety, would mans hope for eternal life lie?
what does that mean?
Cross Reference
New member
Why is that part important? Study to show yourself approved. Look up what they believe.
Since I am made in the image of God, then I am inherently immortal. Hell doesn't affect me, The flames can't hurt me. I am like God. According to you. I can do anything and not worry about hell or destruction.
According to you.