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Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

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  • Originally posted by Timotheos View Post
    I do not "ignore the truths of the holy scriptures. But you do. The Holy and true scriptures say specifically that the wages of sin is death, but you don't care about that. Your tradition says that the wages of sin is eternal conscious torment in hell, and tradition trumps scripture, doesn't it?
    No, you're lying again. I never said any such thing. I believe that after death comes judgment. You don't believe that. You believe that after death comes death. The Bible does support what I believe. Your fallacy is based upon ignoring what happens after death.
    Do you believe in purgatory too?
    I do believe that a part of what God created (paradise) was used to hold people until they could gain entrance into Heaven (since there is no entrance until Jesus' Blood created the possibility of forgiveness of sin). I don't believe that exists any more.
    The same people who invented eternal conscious torment invented purgatory.
    God created it.

    Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    No one invented eternal conscious torment, it was found in Scripture. God created it when Lucifer fell from grace.
    You can't show me one verse that I've twisted.
    You're correct, but it is only because your eyes are closed. You don't accept that you're imperfect.
    I used to believe the same thing you believe now, but I studied the Bible and rejected it because it is unbiblical.
    Were that the case, I would acquiesce to your wisdom. It isn't, obviously.
    You said a lot of lies about me in your post.
    I do not lie. That makes one of us.
    It is not a distortion of scripture to believe that the wages of sin is death.
    Yes, it is, if you don't follow that up with the fact that after this comes judgment.
    Just post the verse that backs up your false doctrine. Post the verse that says that people go to hell when they die where they will be conscious of torment forever. You can't do it, because there is no such verse. Not one verse in the whole Bible agrees with your false doctrine.
    I've never said that. No one goes anywhere without God's permission. God sends sinners to hell. At judgment they'll be sent to the Lake of Fire, which I'm sure is more painful even than hell is. They go to hell to prevent them from bringing harm to those in Heaven, awaiting those they're watching from their 'witness cloud'.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Timotheos View Post
      Death means the condition of not being alive. Death does not mean "the severance of relationships.
      There is no such thing as never being alive. Your view was the view of the Sadducees. They thought that death was the end. But Jesus reminded them that God said, "I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob." Then He said, "therefore, God is not the God of the dead but of the LIVING."

      Paul said that we are "DEAD to the law" that we might be "MARRIED to another, even Christ." Our relationship to the law was severed so that we could enter into a relationship with Christ. Therefore, death involves the severance of a relationship.

      You have your head buried in the sand!



      The prodigal son was not dead.
      His father said he was dead. He said, "my son was dead, but now is alive."

      The heavens and the earth were not destroyed in Noah's day.
      What Bible are you reading? Peter said that the heavens and the earth in Noah's day were "destroyed."

      According to the Bible, the penalty for sin is death. The Bible says this in Romans 6:23, you can't deny it. "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Those who believe in him will not perish but will have eternal life, John 3:16. This means that those who do not believe in him will perish and will not have eternal life.
      Paul said that we were "dead" (Ephesians 2:1).

      Do not EVER say "Duh!" to me again. When you say "Duh!" you are saying that I am too stupid to see what is obvious to everyone else. If you really think I am that stupid, say that I am that stupid so that I can report you.
      The lake of fire and smoke rising up is all a metaphor for torment. The interpretation must be in accord with the metaphor. Smoke does not continue to rise forever and ever after a fire is put out. If smoke is rising up forever and ever, then the fire is burning forever and ever.
      "The Bible is very clear, Christians aren't supposed to be busybodies, nor are they supposed to strive with any man who hasn't harmed him (Or someone else, by implication.)" RandPaulfor2016, May 10, 2013

      Comment


      • Does this apply? It seems there is equivocation with terms.
        No that does not apply because "Death" never means "Alive and in Torment in Hell". You are simply mistaken. You are also wasting my time, since all you need to do is post the verse that says the wicked will go to hell when they die where they will live forever in torment while they are dead. If you can't post it, your doctrine is false.

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        • Deleted duplicate post.

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          • Originally posted by Aimiel View Post
            No, you're lying again. I never said any such thing. I believe that after death comes judgment. You don't believe that. You believe that after death comes death. The Bible does support what I believe. Your fallacy is based upon ignoring what happens after death.I do believe that a part of what God created (paradise) was used to hold people until they could gain entrance into Heaven (since there is no entrance until Jesus' Blood created the possibility of forgiveness of sin). I don't believe that exists any more.God created it.

            Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

            No one invented eternal conscious torment, it was found in Scripture. God created it when Lucifer fell from grace.You're correct, but it is only because your eyes are closed. You don't accept that you're imperfect.Were that the case, I would acquiesce to your wisdom. It isn't, obviously.I do not lie. That makes one of us.Yes, it is, if you don't follow that up with the fact that after this comes judgment. I've never said that. No one goes anywhere without God's permission. God sends sinners to hell. At judgment they'll be sent to the Lake of Fire, which I'm sure is more painful even than hell is. They go to hell to prevent them from bringing harm to those in Heaven, awaiting those they're watching from their 'witness cloud'.
            You said "duh" two times. Be careful, Timotheus don't like that.
            "The Bible is very clear, Christians aren't supposed to be busybodies, nor are they supposed to strive with any man who hasn't harmed him (Or someone else, by implication.)" RandPaulfor2016, May 10, 2013

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
              You have your head buried in the sand!
              You are so offensive.

              And you have already lost because you couldn't produce the verse from the Bible that agrees with your misguided doctrine. Doh! I'm Wile E Coyote and I can't find one Bible verse that agrees with my Doctrine. Doh!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
                You said "duh" two times. Be careful, Timotheus don't like that.
                Are we calling each other stupid now?

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                • Death does not mean eternal life being tormented in Hell.


                  Duh!

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                  • Originally posted by Aimiel View Post
                    No, you're lying again. I never said any such thing. I believe that after death comes judgment. You don't believe that. You believe that after death comes death. The Bible does support what I believe. Your fallacy is based upon ignoring what happens after death.I do believe that a part of what God created (paradise) was used to hold people until they could gain entrance into Heaven (since there is no entrance until Jesus' Blood created the possibility of forgiveness of sin). I don't believe that exists any more.God created it.

                    Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

                    No one invented eternal conscious torment, it was found in Scripture. God created it when Lucifer fell from grace.You're correct, but it is only because your eyes are closed. You don't accept that you're imperfect.Were that the case, I would acquiesce to your wisdom. It isn't, obviously.I do not lie. That makes one of us.Yes, it is, if you don't follow that up with the fact that after this comes judgment. I've never said that. No one goes anywhere without God's permission. God sends sinners to hell. At judgment they'll be sent to the Lake of Fire, which I'm sure is more painful even than hell is. They go to hell to prevent them from bringing harm to those in Heaven, awaiting those they're watching from their 'witness cloud'.
                    Just post the verse that says the wicked will go to hell when they die where they will be tormented alive forever while they are dead.

                    Since you can't, your doctrine is false.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Timotheos View Post
                      You are so offensive.

                      And you have already lost because you couldn't produce the verse from the Bible that agrees with your misguided doctrine. Doh! I'm Wile E Coyote and I can't find one Bible verse that agrees with my Doctrine. Doh!
                      What are you talking about? I gave Jesus' statement to the Sadducees about God not being the God of the dead but of the living. I gave you the direct quote of the prodigal son's father. He said, "My son was dead but now is alive." Read it!!

                      You reported my post saying that I am mocking you for believing the bible is true. But all you are doing is denying what it says. You are imposing your modern, Westernized notions of biblical terms.

                      Think like an ancient Jew!
                      "The Bible is very clear, Christians aren't supposed to be busybodies, nor are they supposed to strive with any man who hasn't harmed him (Or someone else, by implication.)" RandPaulfor2016, May 10, 2013

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
                        If death is the end as Timotheus erroneously thinks, then there is nothing for the wicked to fear. Paul said, "Knowing the TERROR of the Lord we persuade men." But if death is the end, then there is no terror.

                        Timotheus neg repped me and said in his comment that being destroyed is not an incentive to sin. But once I gave the gospel to a relative of mine and he replied saying, "Death is the end so I am going to live it up."

                        Timotheus is living in his own little make believe world.
                        This is not worth reporting, it is his own opinion, and the invention is not for disagreements; moderators have better things to do than look into disagreements
                        Thank you.
                        So, what?

                        believe it!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
                          What are you talking about? I gave Jesus' statement to the Sadducees about God not being the God of the dead but of the living. I gave you the direct quote of the prodigal son's father. He said, "My son was dead but now is alive." Read it!!

                          You reported my post saying that I am mocking you for believing the bible is true. But all you are doing is denying what it says. You are imposing your modern, Westernized notions of biblical terms.

                          Think like an ancient Jew!
                          Just post the verse that says that the wicked will go to hell when they die where they will be tormented alive forever while they are dead.

                          It's true that I reported an offensive post. Don't post in an offensive manner and you have nothing to worry about. Here's a thought, try to act like a decent Christian.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Timotheos View Post
                            Death does not mean eternal life being tormented in Hell.


                            Duh!
                            I think you made your point now. OK?
                            So, what?

                            believe it!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Ktoyou View Post
                              This is not worth reporting, it is his own opinion, and the invention is not for disagreements; moderators have better things to do than look into disagreements
                              Thank you.
                              Thanks, I will consider the source. his opinion is worth nothing,

                              Comment


                              • I just realized, these guys are only trolling. I fall for that every time.

                                That's funny.

                                Comment

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