Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
- Start date
Krsto
Well-known member
Krsto
Well-known member
Good point in saying God did not tell them the penalty was ECT but the fact they both lived beyond the day they ate the fruit makes one wonder what kind of death they got at the time.
Krsto
Well-known member
"God does not want people to suffer." Your theology says just the opposite.
God's Truth
New member
You sure did speak untruth about me. You do not like my beliefs, so you make up things like saying I believe Satan. Is that not how Jesus was treated by those who did not like his beliefs?
You do not believe in the life of the spirit, you have a doctrine of death.
In addition, when Jesus resurrects us, we will not have perishable bodies as we did before we died.
1 Corinthians 15:54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.
1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which you sow, you sow not that body that shall be, but bore grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: …
Do you think Adam and Eve knew then what a physical death was? NO! However, did they end up dying a physical death? Of course, we all die a physical death. Stop with your ignorant speech. Where did I ever say we do not die physically? Do you think it is a small matter to die physically since we have a spirit that lives on? Because of the devil we die and lose our physical bodies, but you want to pretend that that is nothing.
I did not lie about you when I said you do not understand life. You do not, for you have a doctrine of death, you teach when a person dies they are dead in the ground and cease to exist. You have no understanding of the life Jesus gives to our spirit.
God's Truth
New member
That is excellent, thank you. "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Aimiel
Well-known member
:thumb:
The greek does not say that, nor is the scene in the verses above it taken into account.
They should be.
LA
God's Truth
New member
Many translations say eternal punishment. Hundreds of those who translate Greek say that is what it says.
Do you want me to distrust all English Bibles?
Do you go against what this English translation says too?
Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Hell is still pretty hot, but it is ALSO going to be tormented, eternally, in the Lake of Fire.
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
If your name isn't in The Book of Life, you'd better get it written there!!! :thumb:
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
If your name isn't in The Book of Life, you'd better get it written there!!! :thumb:
Why are many not saved if God wants them to be saved? 2 Peter 3:9
God does not always get His way/will (Mt. 23:37; Lk. 7:30; Jn. 3:16 vs Jn. 3:36; I Tim. 2:4; Rev. 20).
See above note to keypurr....
God does not want babies aborted, but they are. Does irrevocable free will ring a bell?
The Greek agrees with the English and does not teach your view.
The biblical, historical, orthodox view is everlasting, conscious separation from God.
The modern compromised view infiltrating the church and often held by cults denies it (though it is a sincere debate in Christian circles among credible believers).
What is clear is that Jesus is the only way to eternal life regardless of the details on the after life (Jn. 3:16 vs Jn. 3:36).
Krsto
Well-known member
God is not culpable when a woman decides to abort. We are talking about what God is culpable for, and nobody but a sovereign God can determine the eternal state of a man. If God is not for ECT, only he, nobody else, can do something about it. There are no other parties involved in the decision of what to do with souls after this life.
Krsto
Well-known member
Is this an admission that it is not clear what happens to the unsaved after death?
Why do you not study the words better before jumping to conclusions.
Most bibles interpret according to the preferred beliefs of the time.
How long is an age?
LA
Is God responsible for the Fall of man? Is the Noahic Flood unjust? Is the cross optional?
If you understood the moral government of God/Moral Governor, love, holiness, justice, mercy, free will, nature of the soul, Deity of Christ, sin, etc., you would not be arguing for an unbiblical view.