Most Christians sin when they pray

[God's Truth]

You are a dunce.

But don't let that stop you from repeating your falsehoods.

You not only called it "question begging", you used it incorrectly.

Jesus came for the lost sheep, those were the ones with faith. The rest of the Jews were cut off and hardened.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You not only called it "question begging",

That I did. And I stand by it.

you used it incorrectly.

When you use a logical fallacy, I will call you out in it. And that is what I did. You were question begging, and now you're desperately trying to push the attention away from your mistake...

But oh, that's right, all you can do is distract from the topic at hand. I almost forgot.

Get back on topic.

 

[God's Truth]

The Jews were cut off and hardened while Jesus was on earth.


John 12:40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."


Mark 8:17 And Jesus, aware of this, said to them, "Why do you discuss the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet see or understand? Do you have a hardened heart? 18"HAVING EYES, DO YOU NOT SEE? AND HAVING EARS, DO YOU NOT HEAR? And do you not remember,


Notice that Jesus says they are HARDENED. He also says deaf and blind---which proves that EVERY TIME Jesus says blind and deaf---it is also about them being hardened

 

[JudgeRightly]

The Jews were cut off and hardened while Jesus was on earth.


John 12:40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."


Mark 8:17 And Jesus, aware of this, said to them, "Why do you discuss the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet see or understand? Do you have a hardened heart? 18"HAVING EYES, DO YOU NOT SEE? AND HAVING EARS, DO YOU NOT HEAR? And do you not remember,


Notice that Jesus says they are HARDENED. He also says deaf and blind---which proves that EVERY TIME Jesus says blind and deaf---it is also about them being hardened

Once again, hardened doesn't mean cut off.

Twisting scripture to make it fit your beliefs is wrong, GT. Shame on you.

 

[God's Truth]

Once again, hardened doesn't mean cut off.

Twisting scripture to make it fit your beliefs is wrong, GT. Shame on you.

They were hardened and made deaf and blind so they could not be saved while Jesus was on earth, for he came for the lost sheep, not wolves in sheep's clothing.

They were cut off and bound to the same place as the disobedient Gentiles:
ALL are bound to the same place.

Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.


They were cut off and need to be grafted back in:

Romans 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.


I have proven my point and that's it.

 

[JudgeRightly]

They were hardened and made deaf and blind so they could not be saved while Jesus was on earth, for he came for the lost sheep, not wolves in sheep's clothing.

Hardened doesn't mean cut off.
Being made deaf or blind does not mean cut off.

Stop trying to change the meanings of words.

Hardened means hardened.
Blind means blind.
Deaf means deaf.

None of the above mean cut off.

Do you even know what the term "cut off" means in Hebrew culture?

Knowing what you've said in the past, probably not, with your aversion to learning more about the Bible's origins.

They were cut off and bound to the same place as the disobedient Gentiles:
ALL are bound to the same place.

Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

"Everyone" here is talking about unbelieving Israel.

But you wouldn't know that because you ignore the context of the verse.

They were cut off and need to be grafted back in:

Romans 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Using verses that inherently support my position doesn't help yours. My position is that God cut off unbelieving Israel in Acts 9. Using verses from Romans doesn't help your position, since Paul wrote Romans YEARS AFTER the events of Acts 9.

You have to show that Israel was cut off BEFORE Acts 9 in order to disprove my position false.

I have proven my point and that's it.

Saying it doesn't magically make it come true, GT.

All you've done is pound your fist on the lectern and assert falsehood repeatedly.

Try learning for once, instead of trying to teach.

 

[God's Truth]

Hardened doesn't mean cut off.
Being made deaf or blind does not mean cut off.

Stop trying to change the meanings of words.

Hardened means hardened.
Blind means blind.
Deaf means deaf.

None of the above mean cut off.

Do you even know what the term "cut off" means in Hebrew culture?

Knowing what you've said in the past, probably not, with your aversion to learning more about the Bible's origins.



"Everyone" here is talking about unbelieving Israel.

But you wouldn't know that because you ignore the context of the verse.



Using verses that inherently support my position doesn't help yours. My position is that God cut off unbelieving Israel in Acts 9. Using verses from Romans doesn't help your position, since Paul wrote Romans YEARS AFTER the events of Acts 9.

You have to show that Israel was cut off BEFORE Acts 9 in order to disprove my position false.



Saying it doesn't magically make it come true, GT.

All you've done is pound your fist on the lectern and assert falsehood repeatedly.

Try learning for once, instead of trying to teach.

Every single thing you said to me goes for you and what you do.

They were cut off and bound to the place where the Gentiles were. That is why they couldn't hear and see and believe and thus be saved. They were Jews who were once called children of God, but now they were separate from Him.

When Jesus started his earthly ministry, the Jews that God still accepted now had to go through Jesus to remain God's.

God gave them to Jesus.

The Jews that were deaf, blind, and hardened, they were not allowed to be come to Jesus to be saved.

John 17:6 "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Everything single thing you said to me goes for you and what you do.

Grow up, GT.

They were cut off

... at Acts 9, Paul's conversion. Not before. Not after.

and bound to the place where the Gentiles were.

Israel is where the Gentiles were?

:kookoo:

That is why they couldn't hear and see and believe and thus be saved.

False.

They were Jews who were once called children of God, but now they were separate from Him.

False.

When Jesus started his earthly ministry, the Jews that God still accepted now had to go through Jesus to remain God's.

Nope.

God gave them to Jesus.

The Jews that were deaf, blind, and hardened, they were not allowed to be come to Jesus to be saved.

John 17:6 "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.

Jesus is talking about the Twelve here. Not the entirety of Israel, not believing Israel, not unbelieving Israel. Just the Twelve Disciples. This is what happens when you take verses out of context.

You're sounding more and more like a Calvinist the way your argument is progressing.

https://youtu.be/ENQfYjsEJZM

 

[God's Truth]

Grow up, GT.



... at Acts 9, Paul's conversion. Not before. Not after.



Israel is where the Gentiles were?

:kookoo:



False.



False.



Nope.

God bound the Jews to the place where the Gentiles were---condemnation.

Jesus is talking about the Twelve here. Not the entirety of Israel, not believing Israel, not unbelieving Israel. Just the Twelve Disciples. This is what happens when you take verses out of context.

You're sounding more and more like a Calvinist the way your argument is progressing.

There is nothing Calvinistic about it. They were Jews who were alive and had faith in God. There were Jews alive at the time Jesus walked the earth and they didn't have faith in God.

God cut off and hardened the Jews who did not have faith and bound them to the place of the Gentiles---without Him.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus is talking about the Twelve here. Not the entirety of Israel, not believing Israel, not unbelieving Israel. Just the Twelve Disciples. This is what happens when you take verses out of context.

You're sounding more and more like a Calvinist the way your argument is progressing.

Jesus is talking about all the sheep, all those who came to Jesus.

Jesus then prays even for all believers that will one day believe in him.


Prayer for all Believers

20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

 

[JudgeRightly]

God bound the Jews to the place where the Gentiles were---condemnation.

And yet, plenty of Jews were converting after this supposed "cutting off" you assert (without evidence) happened.

There is nothing Calvinistic about it.

Your words, not mine:

. . .
they couldn't hear and see and believe and thus be saved.
. . .
The Jews that were deaf, blind, and hardened, they were not allowed to be come to Jesus to be saved.

John 17:6 "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.

John 17 is often used by Calvinists to defend their position, especially the verse you quoted.

The point is that your position cannot be supported by John 17:6 because it's not talking at all about Israel, only the Twelve.

The[re] were Jews who were alive and had faith in God.

Yes there were. And there were more who, even though they had hardened their hearts, could still repent and did, and had faith in their Messiah.

There were Jews alive at the time Jesus walked the earth and they didn't have faith in God.

Correct. And yet, they weren't cut off at that point.

God cut off

Not before Acts 9, He didn't.

and hardened the Jews who did not have faith and bound them to the place of the Gentiles---without Him.

Yet we see faithless Jews converting after the point you assert He cut them off, so clearly either cutting them off didn't do anything, or your position is wrong, and He didn't cut them off until later (namely at Acts 9).

​​​​​​​Since the Bible doesn't contradict itself, that just leaves us with the fact that you're wrong.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Jesus is talking about all the sheep, all those who came to Jesus.

No, He's not.

Read the passage, you moron.

It's explicitly clear that He's talking about the twelve.

Jesus then prays even for all believers that will one day believe in him.


Prayer for all Believers

20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

And?

https://youtu.be/ENQfYjsEJZM

 

[God's Truth]

And yet, plenty of Jews were converting after this supposed "cutting off" you assert (without evidence) happened.



Your words, not mine:



John 17 is often used by Calvinists to defend their position, especially the verse you quoted.

The point is that your position cannot be supported by John 17:6 because it's not talking at all about Israel, only the Twelve.



Yes there were. And there were more who, even though they had hardened their hearts, could still repent and did, and had faith in their Messiah.



Correct. And yet, they weren't cut off at that point.



Not before Acts 9, He didn't.



Yet we see faithless Jews converting after the point you assert He cut them off, so clearly either cutting them off didn't do anything, or your position is wrong, and He didn't cut them off until later (namely at Acts 9).

Since the Bible doesn't contradict itself, that just leaves us with the fact that you're wrong.

Jesus was speaking about all that came to him when he had his earthly ministry.

Jesus SAYS ALL whom GOD DRAWS COMES TO ME.

That is about ALL---not just the 12.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

When Jesus was crucified, then all could come to him to be saved.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Just as the Gentiles---some will believe and be saved, some won't. Some Jews will believe and obey, and some won't---but after Jesus was crucified---they aren't hardened by God anymore.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Jesus was speaking about all that came to him when he had his earthly ministry.

No. He. Wasn't.

Since you're too lazy to just read it in your own Bible, allow me to quote directly from the chapter you tried to twist to fit your beliefs:

Jesus Prays for His Disciples [JESUS]“I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You.For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.“I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves.I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.[/JESUS] - John 17:6-19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...9&version=NKJV

The "son of perdition" is Judas, and the scripture to be fulfilled is the one regarding Jesus being betrayed.

And yes, the subtitle in the New King James DOES IN FACT read "Jesus Prays for His Disciples," and that it's not until verse 20 that He starts praying for the rest of the believers.

Why do you keep lying about scripture, GT?

 

[Jefferson]

As has been pointed out , Hebrews , is written ti Israel !

Of course, but do you think the body of Christ should pray more timidly than Israel?

Please read Rom 8:26 as we do not know how to pray as it is the HOLY SPIRIT that makes INTERCESSION for the saints , no SINNING that I see here !!

dan p

Do you actually think the Holy Spirit leads us to pray timidly?

 

[God's Truth]

No. He. Wasn't.

Since you're too lazy to just read it in your own Bible, allow me to quote directly from the chapter you tried to twist to fit your beliefs:

Jesus Prays for His Disciples [JESUS]“I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You.For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.“I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves.I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.[/JESUS] - John 17:6-19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...9&version=NKJV

The "son of perdition" is Judas, and the scripture to be fulfilled is the one regarding Jesus being betrayed.

And yes, the subtitle in the New King James DOES IN FACT read "Jesus Prays for His Disciples," and that it's not until verse 20 that He starts praying for the rest of the believers.

Why do you keep lying about scripture, GT?

ALL those who came to Jesus when he walked the earth were God the Father's first.

John 6:37 Everyone the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will never drive away.

John 6:39 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.

John 17:6 "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.

 

[clefty]

You want me to have faith in who and faith in about what?

that the moderators here will keep things in order here

You are verbally abusive.

a snake is a snake...slithers back and forth while coming at you...you go back and forth on the Law causing harm to yourself and others to stumble...even having Him sin with claims He broke the Sabbath His Father’s will

Just tell then what the Bible says we are to do and not do on a Sabbath.

start with rest...study and pray for guidance on the understanding of your worship of Yah

If you say what the Bible says to do and not do on the Sabbath, and you don't adhere to it, we know you are a hypocrit and disobedient, and every evil thing you called me.

ya gotta play the game before you can judge how it’s played...

a player striking out at bat or missing a shot or fouling is NOT a hypocrit...one claiming they play the came and don’t even train practice or suit up IS

on game day you show up “what today again?...I already played all week” LOL

There is a new law, a new covenant.

nope. Yup. Especially the Sabbath the ONLY commandment He instructed prayers be said that it be kept in the FUTURE.

He did NOT instruct “And pray that your flight may not be in the winter or on the Sabbath every day any day”

I can see you hope to escape any persecution at all...LOL...next you will believe in a RAPTURE...or even that Sabbath was NOT dispensed to you or something...please don’t get MAD...

Nope no prayers for protection of those in all of Judea or even the preservation of the Temple...nope...just that the Sabbath be kept...

 

[God's Truth]

that the moderators here will keep things in order here

a snake is a snake...slithers back and forth while coming at you...you go back and forth on the Law causing harm to yourself and others to stumble...even having Him sin with claims He broke the Sabbath His Father’s will



start with rest...study and pray for guidance on the understanding of your worship of Yah

ya gotta play the game before you can judge how it’s played...

a player striking out at bat or missing a shot or fouling is NOT a hypocrit...one claiming they play the came and don’t even train practice or suit up IS

on game day you show up “what today again?...I already played all week” LOL



nope. Yup. Especially the Sabbath the ONLY commandment He instructed prayers be said that it be kept in the FUTURE.

He did NOT instruct “And pray that your flight may not be in the winter or on the Sabbath every day any day”

I can see you hope to escape any persecution at all...LOL...next you will believe in a RAPTURE...or even that Sabbath was NOT dispensed to you or something...please don’t get MAD...

Nope no prayers for protection of those in all of Judea or even the preservation of the Temple...nope...just that the Sabbath be kept...

You are in a bad way for sure.

 

[clefty]

You are in a bad way for sure.

He without sin cast the first stone...

 

[God's Truth]

He without sin cast the first stone...

You have cast many stones, and are with bad sins.