Most Christians sin when they pray

[God's Truth]

The Bible says NOT OF WORKS.

There's no clarifier on that phrase that would indicate anything other than works, period.

There's no clarifier on that phrase that would indicate that it's only talking about specific works.



Yes, according to the law. But he says to no longer circumcise.



Jesus said nothing about grace. He never even uttered the word until Paul.

Why can't you comprehend that?



Paul wrote 13 epistles. There are 27 books in the New Testament.

That means that he wrote LESS THAN HALF of the New Testament.



Except that He wrote less than 50% of the New Testament, yet has FAR MORE than half of the number of words, out of 128 times (yes, I counted) that the word "grace" is used, 91 of those are from Paul.

That means, that the ratio of 13:14 of the number of Paul's epistles verses other books in the New Testament does NOT match the 91:37 ratio (nearly three times as many) of the number of times Paul mentioned grace verses the other authors mentioning grace.

Which means that RD is right. Paul wrote about grace FAR MORE than other authors, statistically speaking, more than they did, and there's a reason for that, it's not just coincidence.

Would you like a comparison of the words recorded by Paul versus other authors like "law," "commandment," "command," etc.?



We do. You don't, clearly.

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

John 1:14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Acts 6:8 [ Stephen Seized ] Now Stephen, a man full of God’s grace and power, performed great wonders and signs among the people.

Luke 2:40 And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was on him.

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given.

Revelation 1:4 [ Greetings and Doxology ] John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne,

Revelation 22:21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.

 

[Right Divider]

Jesus IS grace. When Jesus came---IT WAS GRACE.

Vacuous claims again.

You claim that Jesus preached grace and yet He is never recorded in scripture as using that word during His entire earthly ministry to Israel.

 

[God's Truth]

Vacuous claims again.

You claim that Jesus preached grace and yet He is never recorded in scripture as using that word during His entire earthly ministry to Israel.

The scripture plainly says WE ALL RECEIVED GRACE.

John 1:16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given.

 

[JudgeRightly]

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

First of all, why can't you ever quote verses that are close to each other in order? I can understand verses in other books, and even from other chapters, but you quoted John 1:14, 16 and 17, and verse 14 you even quoted twice, but in a weird order?

Why?

And not only that, but you're using two completely different versions, maybe three. If you're going to quote scripture, don't be haphazard with it.

And didn't you read my post?

I said I counted all of the times the word "grace" is used in scripture. That means I noted these verses as having the word grace in them. They were part of my argument against your position, GT, that Paul spoke more about grace than did the other authors of the New Testament.

That point alone destroys your entire argument.

All of the above is an indication that you're proof-texting, just grabbing verses that seem to agree with your position and quoting them here, rather than grasping what they're talking about and using them in context. You're grasping at straws at this point, just posting verses to try to distract from the point I made.

Go read what I wrote in my post again. Try to understand the argument I'm making. Then, I dare you to make a rational argument against it.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The scripture plainly says WE ALL RECEIVED GRACE.

Adding grace to law doesn't change the fact that there is still law. John is speaking in the context of the law, which was undergirded by grace.

And again, "receiving grace" doesn't mean it was taught by Jesus.

John 1:16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given.

Here's what the verse says IN CONTEXT:

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ ”And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace.For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. - John 1:14-18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1:14-18&version=NKJV

Also, note that Jesus isn't recorded as speaking in this passage. It's John, speaking ABOUT Jesus.

 

[Right Divider]

The scripture plainly says WE ALL RECEIVED GRACE.

John 1:16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given.

And, as per usual, you have no idea what John is talking about.

Show us where John tells us that we are saved by grace through faith.... we'll wait.

John was one of the TWELVE apostles that will sit on TWELVE throne judging the TWELVE tribes of Israel.

You are contextually clueless which leads you to all kinds of errors.

 

[Jefferson]

The word boldly can also mean confidence. Not confidence in my self or bold, but confidence in verse 15 that I have a High Priest, Lord Jesus Christ, in heaven who I can prayer who understands my weaknesses. A blessing.

confidence,
παρρησίας (parrēsias)
Noun - Genitive Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 3954: From pas and a derivative of rheo; all out-spokenness, i.e. Frankness, bluntness, publicity; by implication, assurance.

I think the timid word, "just" still sins against the verse if it is translated, "confidence" instead of "boldly."

 

[God's Truth]

And, as per usual, you have no idea what John is talking about.

Just believe what is written.

Show us where John tells us that we are saved by grace through faith.... we'll wait.

Jesus is grace and faith and taught faith.

John was one of the TWELVE apostles that will sit on TWELVE throne judging the TWELVE tribes of Israel.

And?

 

[God's Truth]

Show us where John tells us that we are saved by grace through faith.... we'll wait.

Jesus taught to be saved by faith:


Matthew 9:28 When he had gone indoors, the blind men came to him, and he asked them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” “Yes, Lord,” they replied.

Matthew 18:6 [ Causing to Stumble ] “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Mark 1:15 “The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”

Mark 5:36 Overhearing what they said, Jesus told him, “Don’t be afraid; just believe.”

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Luke 8:12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

John 1:7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe.

John 1:12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

John 2:23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name.

John 3:15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

John 4:39 [ Many Samaritans Believe ] Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, “He told me everything I ever did.”

...and so many, many more.

Mark 11:22 “Have faith in God,” Jesus answered.

Luke 5:20 When Jesus saw their faith, he said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven.”

Luke 7:50 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Luke 12:28 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today, and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, how much more will he clothe you—you of little faith!

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”

John 12:42 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue;

Acts 3:16 “And by the faith of his Name, this one whom you see and know, he has restored and healed, and faith in him has given him this health before you all.”

Acts 6:5 This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism.

Acts 6:7 So the word of God spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem increased rapidly, and a large number of priests became obedient to the faith.

 

[God's Truth]

There weren't scripture references in the original books and letters.

It doesn't matter what order one states the truth.

It doesn't matter how many times something is said.

No scripture can be put aside.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus taught to be saved by faith:


Matthew 9:28 When he had gone indoors, the blind men came to him, and he asked them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” “Yes, Lord,” they replied.

Matthew 18:6 [ Causing to Stumble ] “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Mark 1:15 “The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”

Mark 5:36 Overhearing what they said, Jesus told him, “Don’t be afraid; just believe.”

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Luke 8:12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

John 1:7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe.

John 1:12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

John 2:23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name.

John 3:15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

John 4:39 [ Many Samaritans Believe ] Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, “He told me everything I ever did.”

...and so many, many more.

Mark 11:22 “Have faith in God,” Jesus answered.

Luke 5:20 When Jesus saw their faith, he said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven.”

Luke 7:50 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Luke 12:28 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today, and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, how much more will he clothe you—you of little faith!

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”

John 12:42 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue;

Acts 3:16 “And by the faith of his Name, this one whom you see and know, he has restored and healed, and faith in him has given him this health before you all.”

Acts 6:5 This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism.

Acts 6:7 So the word of God spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem increased rapidly, and a large number of priests became obedient to the faith.

Paul is teaching that faith!

Galatians 3:22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Galatians 3:23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Galatians 3:24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

...and MANY more.



Did you read those?

Paul says after that faith came----WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER A SCHOOLMASTER.

That is about after Jesus came and taught faith.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Just believe what is written.

We do. You don't, clearly.

Jesus is grace

No, He's not.

Jesus never claimed such, the Bible never teaches such.

and faith

No, He's not.

Jesus never claimed such, the Bible never teaches such.

and taught faith.

In what?

And?

That's the Gospel of the Kingdom of Israel. Not the Gospel of Grace.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Jesus taught to be saved by faith:


Matthew 9:28 When he had gone indoors, the blind men came to him, and he asked them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” “Yes, Lord,” they replied.

Matthew 18:6 [ Causing to Stumble ] “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Mark 1:15 “The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”

Mark 5:36 Overhearing what they said, Jesus told him, “Don’t be afraid; just believe.”

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Luke 8:12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

John 1:7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe.

John 1:12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

John 2:23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name.

John 3:15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

John 4:39 [ Many Samaritans Believe ] Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, “He told me everything I ever did.”

...and so many, many more.

Mark 11:22 “Have faith in God,” Jesus answered.

Luke 5:20 When Jesus saw their faith, he said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven.”

Luke 7:50 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Luke 12:28 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today, and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, how much more will he clothe you—you of little faith!

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”

John 12:42 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue;

Acts 3:16 “And by the faith of his Name, this one whom you see and know, he has restored and healed, and faith in him has given him this health before you all.”

Acts 6:5 This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism.

Acts 6:7 So the word of God spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem increased rapidly, and a large number of priests became obedient to the faith.

More proof-texting. You're not even bothering to read the context of these verses, are you?

 

[Right Divider]

Jesus taught to be saved by faith:


Matthew 9:28 When he had gone indoors, the blind men came to him, and he asked them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” “Yes, Lord,” they replied.

Matthew 18:6 [ Causing to Stumble ] “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Mark 1:15 “The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”

Mark 5:36 Overhearing what they said, Jesus told him, “Don’t be afraid; just believe.”

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Luke 8:12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

John 1:7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe.

John 1:12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

John 2:23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name.

John 3:15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

John 4:39 [ Many Samaritans Believe ] Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, “He told me everything I ever did.”

...and so many, many more.

Mark 11:22 “Have faith in God,” Jesus answered.

Luke 5:20 When Jesus saw their faith, he said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven.”

Luke 7:50 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Luke 12:28 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today, and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, how much more will he clothe you—you of little faith!

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”

John 12:42 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue;

Acts 3:16 “And by the faith of his Name, this one whom you see and know, he has restored and healed, and faith in him has given him this health before you all.”

Acts 6:5 This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism.

Acts 6:7 So the word of God spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem increased rapidly, and a large number of priests became obedient to the faith.

And YET ... BY GRACE is missing from 100% of those quotes.

You have faith in yourself... you continue to shout "look at MY obedience".

Get back on topic.

 

[God's Truth]

And YET ... BY GRACE is missing from 100% of those quotes.

You have faith in yourself... you continue to shout "look at MY obedience".

Get back on topic.

Jesus CAME with GRACE and WAS FULL of GRACE.

Jesus taught to have faith in him to be saved.

Paul taught that same one and only faith that Jesus taught.

 

[JudgeRightly]

There weren't scripture references in the original books and letters.

And? Your point is?

It doesn't matter what order one states the truth.

When something that is truth is twisted to fit one's beliefs, yes, it does matter.

That's what you're doing.

It doesn't matter how many times something is said.

An argument from repetition is a logical fallacy.

No scripture can be put aside.

Yet you continuously quote mostly from gospels other than Paul's to support your position, rarely quoting from His epistles. You continuously ignore verses that completely disprove your position. Hypocrite.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Jesus CAME with GRACE and WAS FULL of GRACE.

And yet, not once did he ever use the word "grace" during his earthly ministry.

Why didn't He?

Jesus taught to have faith in him to be saved.

And? Adding the element of faith to law doesn't remove the law part.

Paul taught that same one and only faith that Jesus taught.

No, Paul did not.

 

[clefty]

Paul is teaching that faith!

Galatians 3:22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Galatians 3:23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Galatians 3:24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

...and MANY more.



Did you read those?

Paul says after that faith came----WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER A SCHOOLMASTER.

That is about after Jesus came and taught faith.

all this and STILL you ignore Hebrews 11 and dare claim in the OT it was by works and NOT by faith...

and after faith came, we wut?

“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:31

except you...

you establish only 9/10 of the Law...

and by LYING 8/10 stealing worship 7/10 killing the Spirit 6/10 worshipping another god whose laws CAN change 5/10 making idols 4/10

you see where this is heading? you dishonor His Name which HE established in the OT 3/10 covet the non Sabbatismos world 2/10 which leaves you at honoring your parents...1/10

you establish 1/10 of the law...serve them HAM and other bottom feeding unhealthy food and well...0/10...

maybe go back to your schoolmaster and get a refresher course...stop going against what you were taught...

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus taught faith and that is grace.

Romans 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Romans 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.



Faith gives access to grace, and Jesus is the promise that was given to Abraham, Jesus, the one who taught faith to have access to grace.

 

[God's Truth]

all this and STILL you ignore Hebrews 11 and dare claim in the OT it was by works and NOT by faith...

I don't ignore any scriptures.

The scripture says the old law was not of faith.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.