D- minus for "Gospel" of Thomas

[Lon]

It reads just like a flunked test, the Gospel of Thomas is one person's recollection of all he learned from hearing the Gospel:


14. Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will bring sin upon yourselves, and if you pray, you will be condemned, and if you give to charity, you will harm your spirits.

15. Jesus said, "When you see one who was not born of woman, fall on your faces and worship. That one is your Father."

19. Jesus said, "Congratulations to the one who came into being before coming into being.

If you become my disciples and pay attention to my sayings, these stones will serve you.

21. Mary said to Jesus, "What are your disciples like?"

He said, "They are like little children living in a field that is not theirs. When the owners of the field come, they will say, 'Give us back our field.' They take off their clothes in front of them in order to give it back to them, and they return their field to them.

28. Jesus said, "I took my stand in the midst of the world, and in flesh I appeared to them. I found them all drunk, and I did not find any of them thirsty. My soul ached for the children of humanity, because they are blind in their hearts and do not see, for they came into the world empty, and they also seek to depart from the world empty.

But meanwhile they are drunk. When they shake off their wine, then they will change their ways."

29. Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, that is a marvel, but if spirit came into being because of the body, that is a marvel of marvels.

30. Jesus said, "Where there are three deities, they are divine. Where there are two or one, I am with that one."

33. Jesus said, "What you will hear in your ear, in the other ear proclaim from your rooftops.

37. His disciples said, "When will you appear to us, and when will we see you?"

Jesus said, "When you strip without being ashamed, and you take your clothes and put them under your feet like little children and trample them, then [you] will see the son of the living one and you will not be afraid."

Excerpts from gnosis

 

[steko]

Darn, there was something I was trying to forget but I don't remember what it was.

 

[chair]

It reads just like a flunked test, the Gospel of Thomas is one person's recollection of all he learned from hearing the Gospel:

All of the books called "Gospels" today are people's recollections about Jesus.

 

[clefty]

It reads just like a flunked test, the Gospel of Thomas is one person's recollection of all he learned from hearing the Gospel:


14. Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will bring sin upon yourselves, and if you pray, you will be condemned, and if you give to charity, you will harm your spirits.

15. Jesus said, "When you see one who was not born of woman, fall on your faces and worship. That one is your Father."

19. Jesus said, "Congratulations to the one who came into being before coming into being.

If you become my disciples and pay attention to my sayings, these stones will serve you.

21. Mary said to Jesus, "What are your disciples like?"

He said, "They are like little children living in a field that is not theirs. When the owners of the field come, they will say, 'Give us back our field.' They take off their clothes in front of them in order to give it back to them, and they return their field to them.

28. Jesus said, "I took my stand in the midst of the world, and in flesh I appeared to them. I found them all drunk, and I did not find any of them thirsty. My soul ached for the children of humanity, because they are blind in their hearts and do not see, for they came into the world empty, and they also seek to depart from the world empty.

But meanwhile they are drunk. When they shake off their wine, then they will change their ways."

29. Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, that is a marvel, but if spirit came into being because of the body, that is a marvel of marvels.

30. Jesus said, "Where there are three deities, they are divine. Where there are two or one, I am with that one."

33. Jesus said, "What you will hear in your ear, in the other ear proclaim from your rooftops.

37. His disciples said, "When will you appear to us, and when will we see you?"

Jesus said, "When you strip without being ashamed, and you take your clothes and put them under your feet like little children and trample them, then [you] will see the son of the living one and you will not be afraid."

Excerpts from gnosis

LOL...awww come on man...

One mention of Sabbath keeping:

27. "If you do not fast from the world, you will not find the (Father's) kingdom. If you do not observe the sabbath as a sabbath you will not see the Father."Gospel of Thomas.

And now another thread slandering all of it...as if it being understood as NON Canonical isn't enough...


Hey Coach...why not use it as a teaching moment as to why certain books are not graded high enough for you...

throughout history they were accepted and STILL ARE...but you are "other"...lol

Perhaps you could coach how some beliefs Christians hold today are influenced or even directly from the these books:

Mary as virgin...no other kids...​

Peter martyred upside down...or any of the Apostle's martyrdoms...not found in the canon.

Giving of alms for sanctification...hmmm evangelical prosperity gospel TV shows might have learned something there

Prayers for the dead...as if they are still alive...sound familiar?

Purgatory...as if the soul is immortal...sound familiar?

Apocalypses of both Peter and Paul contribute to visions of literal eternal hell fire torment...not found in the canon...

Jesus' supposed trip to hell included...

Here is a good article on the development of the understanding of the afterlife during this time rife with Hellenization and apocrypha...a wide range of beliefs indeed...


"If the soul was believed to be mortal (the minority view in the Apocrypha and the Pseudepigrapha), Second Temple Period literature describes views ranging from:
[*]Rejection of an afterlife. This view was held by the Sadducees, who belonged to the aristocracy and the priestly class.

…

A belief that the soul left the body at the time of death and would live independently with no need for a future resurrection because the good or the bad soul would receive its just reward. This last view is similar to the Platonic immortality of the soul concept that strongly influenced Philo’s writings. According to Josephus (Ant. 18.1.5; J. W. 2.8.11), the Essenes believed in the immortality of the soul and was the Jewish religious group most closely related to the Platonic afterlife belief."

https://bibleinterp.arizona.edu/arti...-temple-period

You can see why the Roman commander had to send his soldiers in to rescue poor Paul from the Sanhedrin ready to tear things up...of course they were arguing about the resurrection and NOT that Paul taught the Sabbath was done away with or that they could finally eat cats bats and wombats...read all about the excitement in Act 23:1-10

ALL BECAUSE OF THE APORCYPHAL DEVELOPMENT...

Think about it coach!! Imagine proclaiming "He is risen!" without this apocryphal development...


There is more of its influence to be sure but the list is getting long enough...


Calvin himself liberally used these books...no surprise...as some still do...​

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles...-the-apocrypha

"Calvin followed suit. He interacted with the Apocrypha in ways that would make some Protestants cringe. He was edified by it and cited it in support of already accepted doctrines. However (and this is really important), neither Calvin nor Luther ever used it as an independent, infallible, inspired source of doctrine.

But the Roman Catholic Council of Trent (1546) did. Following Augustine, they ruled most of the books of the Apocrypha (excluding 1 and 2 Esdras, Letter of Jeremiah, Prayer of Manasseh, and 3 and 4 Maccabees) to be canonical.⁹ Many Protestant confessions of faith pushed back against Trent. It’s worth quoting three that describe the nature of the Apocrypha:

Thirty-nine Articles (1571), article 6: “And the other Books (as Jerome saith) the Church doth read for example of life and instruction of manners; but yet doth it not apply them to establish any doctrine.”


Could you imagine if the ekklesia founded in the wilderness actually DID "doth read for example of life"?

Starting with this:

27. "If you do not fast from the world, you will not find the (Father's) kingdom. If you do not observe the sabbath as a sabbath you will not see the Father."Gospel of Thomas.

instead you set out to throw it all out...LOL

despite retaining more than you realize...


There are lots of things outside of canon which contribute to better understanding of our relationship with Him...

like that photo of the enmity which was abolished...an actual archeological find...a stone with the commandments found in ordinances which was written of in Eph 2...did you have a chance to see that?

 

[Lon]

All of the books called "Gospels" today are people's recollections about Jesus.

Yeah, but not all of them are D-minus.

 

[Lon]

Yeah "Other" shines right through, every time.

In this case, the baby, you, is steeped in heresy after "Other" heresy, not even heterodox, heresy.

 

[clefty]

Yeah "Other" shines right through, every time.

In this case, the baby, you, is steeped in heresy after "Other" heresy, not even heterodox, heresy.

who are you being this passive aggressive with?

whoever it was OUCH...

you sure told him/her...seems like you took personal offense there coach...not very sporting...attacking the other team like that...in sports that often happens when your team is beaten...some coaches resort to name calling or blaming the other team for cheating or the ref...

looks bad...throwing chairs...fans love it...maybe that's what you want?... attention?

Good coaches use even a loss as a learning moment...try to find some pearls in the dung of losing...kinda like trying to find some truth in non canonical books right? LOL

or sure...throw it all out in disgust...despite some pearls..."the church doth read for example of life" as the Council of Trent said.

 

[Lon]

who are you being this passive aggressive with?

whoever it was OUCH...

Self-projecting. I'm not really sure any kind of time is going to be of value, to either of us. What you need, I cannot give and so you'll find I may address you in passing comment but there really is no sense. Once you hit that "Other" button, you made a choice. Following me around, from thread to thread isn't productive for either of us.

you sure told him/her...seems like you took personal offense there coach...not very sporting...attacking the other team like that...in sports that often happens when your team is beaten...some coaches resort to name calling or blaming the other team for cheating or the ref...

I know you think that, it is your ego getting in the way. My interest in conversation with you is passive, though I continue to pray scripture will wake you up. It is the only thing left. We disagree, me orthodox, you? Siding not just in heterodoxy, but heresy. The Gospel of Thomas is terrible theology. If it were to even mention salvation by grace, the only thing I could say of the book, is, "Still not worth your time. It is full of errors."

looks bad...throwing chairs...fans love it...maybe that's what you want?... attention?

Your perception is off.

Good coaches use even a loss as a learning moment...try to find some pearls in the dung of losing...kinda like trying to find some truth in non canonical books right? LOL

or sure...throw it all out in disgust...despite some pearls..."the church doth read for example of life" as the Council of Trent said.

I've written you off a any kind of "coach." You are 1) playing "Other" rules so not really my game by any means and 2) Pearls from Gospel of Thomas is really digging. We have a lot of heretics on TOL. There is a thread, over 500 pages long that is hosted by heresy advocates who clearly know nothing about the scriptures, they contradict them the entire way. The Gospel of Thomas does as well. D-minus. A teacher or coach, doesn't generally go to the paper that gets it all wrong, as a 'positive' example for an orthodox class. When God's truth is on the line, even further removed lest we bring up every heresy group and count all the 'positive' points in the mud. Kind David called God's word gold, no mud. A disagreement is about all we have between us. If you want to talk about those, fine, but this baiting/posturing isn't going to get my attention. If there is little value or point, other than posturing between two opposing sides, it would be more like that football analogy, but scripture warns us to be more careful and present scripture truth. Here is a presentation against this book, for the sake of the first man who introduced the book on TOL and for background work should any other member run across his posts.

 

[clefty]

Self-projecting. I'm not really sure any kind of time is going to be of value, to either of us. What you need, I cannot give and so you'll find I may address you in passing comment but there really is no sense.

I just need you to address that photo of the enmity the Jews had against goyim which was abolished...you know the one found in commandments in ordinances...did you see it? That was abolished not the Sabbath...but NOOOOO you avoid and ignore I mean wouldn't you go after a lost sheep?

Once you hit that "Other" button, you made a choice. Following me around, from thread to thread isn't productive for either of us.

you make all the decision then do you? You judge and label at will and determine the outcome...sounds just like other historical figures I read about...Pharisees and Inquisitors...at least you are consistent...

I know you think that, it is your ego getting in the way. My interest in conversation with you is passive, though I continue to pray scripture will wake you up.

no need to pray...share...and be receptive in return...

It is the only thing left.

so where were we? oh yes that PHOTO did you see the enmity Jews had of gentiles Jews ironically argue as you do "Sabbath was made for Jews" LOL...well that enmity was abolished and NOT the Sabbath...showed up in the Gospel of Thomas too...LOL

We disagree, me orthodox, you?

with Paul...worshipping as did "the Way" hear about us?

Siding not just in heterodoxy, but heresy.

your repeating it is not enough...soon you will censure me as all good bullies do...for fear of my view prevailing over yours...typical tactic...historical actually

The Gospel of Thomas is terrible theology.

is WHY it is non canonical...

If it were to even mention salvation by grace, the only thing I could say of the book, is, "Still not worth your time. It is full of errors."

and yet church doth read for example of life...OH WAIT it supports Sabbath keeping...LOL...hmmmm...could that trigger a response to begin a random stoopid Gospel of Thomas thread?

Your perception is off.

just answer direct questions then...stick to the game and not the ad Homs and HERETIC flagging...on multiple threads and posts NOT TO ME...

I've written you off a any kind of "coach."

I never claimed to be...you did with your "9 year olds don't play the same rules as the pros do" analogy

You are 1) playing "Other" rules so not really my game by any means

nope...rule #1 scripture...use scripture call me anything you want just also use scripture to show Sabbath was done away with...talk trash, cheat, cheap shot, foul, I don't care...just use the Word to show your game

and 2) Pearls from Gospel of Thomas is really digging.

not the point...non canonical was enough for most but you have to go and grade it like some council doctor...and out of the blue with its own thread...and after a verse from it affirmed the Sabbath...LOL

We have a lot of heretics on TOL.

says who? iron sharpens iron until the broken sword claims heresy?

There is a thread, over 500 pages long that is hosted by heresy advocates who clearly know nothing about the scriptures, they contradict them the entire way. The Gospel of Thomas does as well. D-minus.

relax...focus this is no that or your past experiences as traumatic as this is...

A teacher or coach, doesn't generally go to the paper that gets it all wrong, as a 'positive' example for an orthodox class.

explain to us why so many beliefs in the accepted churchES stem from these non canonical books then...

When God's truth is on the line, even further removed lest we bring up every heresy group and count all the 'positive' points in the mud.

well His Word is on the line and there are those that teach to break the least of these let alone those that claim NONE REMAIN TO BREAK...or NOT FOR US TO KEEP...

Kind David called God's word gold, no mud.

beyond that he writes His Law is PERFECT...but still you and yours come along and claim it needs doing away with...certainly that SABBATH thingy...LOL

you and your orthodoxies are FAR from David's DELIGHT in keeping TORAH...

A disagreement is about all we have between us. If you want to talk about those, fine, but this baiting/posturing isn't going to get my attention.

and yet...

If there is little value or point, other than posturing between two opposing sides, it would be more like that football analogy,

except you argue the football rules are abolished...and I maintain they are not...

but scripture warns us to be more careful and present scripture truth. Here is a presentation against this book, for the sake of the first man who introduced the book on TOL and for background work should any other member run across his posts.

ummm...ok but it remains..."Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah (not His Son's updated new version) and the faith OF Yahushua"...see? NOT faith IN Him but of His Faith...what was His faith?...Muslim? Buddhist? Eastern orthodoxy? Roman catholic? Evangelical? check His fruits...make the same...more Like Him less like the way you were before...

unless you're MAD at those rules and then it's entirely another game...LOL...but I think you are just sore...not MAD

 

[Lon]

I just need you to address that photo of the enmity the Jews had against goyim which was abolished...you know the one found in commandments in ordinances...did you see it? That was abolished not the Sabbath...but NOOOOO you avoid and ignore I mean wouldn't you go after a lost sheep?

:nono: Not the thread for it. Single issue-preaching. One-trick-pony. Thread hi-jacking. You know nothing but "Sabbath?"

you make all the decision then do you? You judge and label at will and determine the outcome...sounds just like other historical figures I read about...Pharisees and Inquisitors...at least you are consistent...

"Orthodox?" "Correct?" "Right?" Yeah, those too. Sorry and tough. This thread nor I, am your pet projects. There are associations of fellowship who look at what churches hold in common and compare these to what scripture says, in order to determine whether such views are 'orthodox' (biblical) or not. I'm not the single voice of these, just the one reporting what the rest of us all agree upon. I'm not "Other" but part of a body, according to Romans 12:5

no need to pray...share...and be receptive in return...

:nono: I'm just arrogant enough to think you are nowhere on par with me (education and profession do that to a few of us, I'm working on it, I have a harder time with 'receptive' when it is evident, in conversation, how long someone has done theology). That said, what difference does it make? I've been through years of training and study and walking with the Lord. When you won't listen, in your intermediate grasp, it is left to prayer. I really don't have the time these days to try and make a difference in strong-willed and arrogant. You can 'Pharisee' me all over the internet as much as you like. It is at best intermediate and most often the amateur and initiate that ever does that ridiculous attempt at comparison. There are no Pharisees today and comparisons fall flat. I too was the young cocky initiate at one time in my life. I too was too arrogant to be corrected. Honestly? Prayer is the only thing that works. You will have to go down that road alone so prayer is all I've got. That God would begin teaching you. Until then you aren't much but a piff on anybodies' radar.

so where were we? oh yes that PHOTO did you see the enmity Jews had of gentiles Jews ironically argue as you do "Sabbath was made for Jews" LOL...well that enmity was abolished and NOT the Sabbath...showed up in the Gospel of Thomas too...LOL

That repetitive "LOL?" Yeah, not the mark. Far below it. You really shouldn't be distracting every thread with the same ol' same ol'. It is against TOL rules.

your repeating it is not enough...soon you will censure me as all good bullies do...for fear of my view prevailing over yours...typical tactic...historical actually

Whatever assessement floats your boat. It is wrong and you are doing the bullying. I'm not following you around, as bullies do.

is WHY it is non canonical...

and yet church doth read for example of life...OH WAIT it supports Sabbath keeping...LOL...hmmmm...could that trigger a response to begin a random stoopid Gospel of Thomas thread?

Another breach of TOL Rules: "Thou shalt not marginalize, if you aren't interested in a thread, don't post in it."

just answer direct questions then...stick to the game and not the ad Homs and HERETIC flagging...on multiple threads and posts NOT TO ME...

Nope, not in this thread. Perhaps in another, if I ever believed it'd be any helpful. Here is what I got: Dear Lord, I've nothing. Clefty cannot do scripture discussion without knee-jerk rejection. You said Your word doesn't return void so I leave him in your hands, praying for your word to do its work.

I never claimed to be...you did with your "9 year olds don't play the same rules as the pros do" analogy

nope...rule #1 scripture...use scripture call me anything you want just also use scripture to show Sabbath was done away with...talk trash, cheat, cheap shot, foul, I don't care...just use the Word to show your game

not the point...non canonical was enough for most but you have to go and grade it like some council doctor...and out of the blue with its own thread...and after a verse from it affirmed the Sabbath...LOL

It's that "LOL" thing. Hard to even want to address you when your response to anything is "LOL" and "Other."

says who? iron sharpens iron until the broken sword claims heresy?

:nono: There are fellowships created to recognize what we all have in common as where we all diverge. Within those assessments, is a rigorous comparison to scriptural truths. It is very easy to see where the Book of Thomas diverges with Biblical instruction and teaching. As far as other heresy on TOL? <--Look it up, you might figure it out.

relax...focus this is no that or your past experiences as traumatic as this is...

You aren't the boss of me. I can relax or tense as I feel fit for the thread. Your read of me is as bad as against the scriptures. How could anyone ever trust you with "Relax, Dude LOL" or any other poor conveyance? While many don't believe "professionalism" is a godly attribute, there are many scriptures that suggest it with "maturity, elder, teacher" etc.

explain to us why so many beliefs in the accepted churchES stem from these non canonical books then...

I did, you weren't listening. This too is the mark of amateur or intermediate at best. How about you look back at my first post and see if you can find the answer given there.

well His Word is on the line and there are those that teach to break the least of these let alone those that claim NONE REMAIN TO BREAK...or NOT FOR US TO KEEP...

beyond that he writes His Law is PERFECT...but still you and yours come along and claim it needs doing away with...certainly that SABBATH thingy...LOL

you and your orthodoxies are FAR from David's DELIGHT in keeping TORAH...

When is the last time you cut up a bull on the altar? OH, THAT'S RIGHT! You can't! When is the last time you went to a Priest? OH, THAT'S RIGHT! You can't! Think critically about what laws you are capable of, and which Christ HAD to fulfill. Other than that? Stay on topic. This one only addresses the problems of the Book of Thomas. Focus.

and yet...

except you argue the football rules are abolished...and I maintain they are not...

Again, off-topic. This thread does not address that one. Ask in the other thread that does. Somebody else or I can field questions in the appropriate places. This one is about the Book of Thomas.

ummm...ok but it remains..."Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah (not His Son's updated new version) and the faith OF Yahushua"...see? NOT faith IN Him but of His Faith...what was His faith?...Muslim? Buddhist? Eastern orthodoxy? Roman catholic? Evangelical? check His fruits...make the same...more Like Him less like the way you were before...

unless you're MAD at those rules and then it's entirely another game...LOL...but I think you are just sore...not MAD

Focus. I'm not 'sore' but 'appropriate' and on topic (focussed). This isn't the thread for this off-topic discussion. It isn't serving my intention and is too broad for this specific discussion.

 

[clefty]

:nono: Not the thread for it. Single issue-preaching. One-trick-pony. Thread hi-jacking. You know nothing but "Sabbath?"

oh I thought it was a thread about grading interpretations of His teaching...you gave poor Thomas a D- good thing he didn't become part of the church canon or tradition...I was offering something EVEN LESS accurately interpreted AND accepted in church tradition...you know that Photo of the enmity Jews had of goyim...interpreted "as Sabbath was done away with"...that SHOULD receive poor marks right Coach?

"Orthodox?" "Correct?" "Right?" Yeah, those too. Sorry and tough. This thread nor I, am your pet projects. There are associations of fellowship who look at what churches hold in common and compare these to what scripture says, in order to determine whether such views are 'orthodox' (biblical) or not. I'm not the single voice of these, just the one reporting what the rest of us all agree upon. I'm not "Other" but part of a body, according to Romans 12:5

so sayeth you...a body which does not follow the Head...

:nono: I'm just arrogant enough to think you are nowhere on par with me (education and profession do that to a few of us, I'm working on it, I have a harder time with 'receptive' when it is evident, in conversation, how long someone has done theology). That said, what difference does it make? I've been through years of training and study and walking with the Lord. When you won't listen, in your intermediate grasp, it is left to prayer. I really don't have the time these days to try and make a difference in strong-willed and arrogant. You can 'Pharisee' me all over the internet as much as you like. It is at best intermediate and most often the amateur and initiate that ever does that ridiculous attempt at comparison. There are no Pharisees today and comparisons fall flat. I too was the young cocky initiate at one time in my life. I too was too arrogant to be corrected. Honestly? Prayer is the only thing that works. You will have to go down that road alone so prayer is all I've got. That God would begin teaching you. Until then you aren't much but a piff on anybodies' radar.

ok so about that photo...what do you grade it?

That repetitive "LOL?" Yeah, not the mark. Far below it. You really shouldn't be distracting every thread with the same ol' same ol'. It is against TOL rules.

rules suddenly matter...

Whatever assessement floats your boat. It is wrong and you are doing the bullying. I'm not following you around, as bullies do.
Another breach of TOL Rules: "Thou shalt not marginalize, if you aren't interested in a thread, don't post in it."

I am interested...and it is relevant...and you have not only followed me but spoke ill of me in another's post...not even addressing me...but whatever...at least I aint burning at the stake somewhere right?

Nope, not in this thread. Perhaps in another, if I ever believed it'd be any helpful. Here is what I got: Dear Lord, I've nothing. Clefty cannot do scripture discussion without knee-jerk rejection. You said Your word doesn't return void so I leave him in your hands, praying for your word to do its work.

wow you are slick...and quick...

It's that "LOL" thing. Hard to even want to address you when your response to anything is "LOL" and "Other."

ok sorry...will try not to liven things up too much for you party pooper

:nono: There are fellowships created to recognize what we all have in common as where we all diverge. Within those assessments, is a rigorous comparison to scriptural truths. It is very easy to see where the Book of Thomas diverges with Biblical instruction and teaching. As far as other heresy on TOL? <--Look it up, you might figure it out.

why out of the blue a thread on non canonical books anyway?

You aren't the boss of me. I can relax or tense as I feel fit for the thread. Your read of me is as bad as against the scriptures. How could anyone ever trust you with "Relax, Dude LOL" or any other poor conveyance? While many don't believe "professionalism" is a godly attribute, there are many scriptures that suggest it with "maturity, elder, teacher" etc.


I did, you weren't listening. This too is the mark of amateur or intermediate at best. How about you look back at my first post and see if you can find the answer given there.

feel better?

When is the last time you cut up a bull on the altar? OH, THAT'S RIGHT! You can't! When is the last time you went to a Priest? OH, THAT'S RIGHT! You can't! Think critically about what laws you are capable of, and which Christ HAD to fulfill.

ok...done...

Other than that? Stay on topic. This one only addresses the problems of the Book of Thomas. Focus.

again thought we were grading poor interpretation of what Yahushua taught...you know like that photo...

Again, off-topic. This thread does not address that one. Ask in the other thread that does. Somebody else or I can field questions in the appropriate places. This one is about the Book of Thomas.

was addressing you the author of this thread and our history...

Focus. I'm not 'sore' but 'appropriate' and on topic (focussed). This isn't the thread for this off-topic discussion. It isn't serving my intention and is too broad for this specific discussion.

ok so about that Photo...do you agree it is, like the gospel of Thomas, a GOOD example of POOR interpretation of what was taught in the canon?

 

[Lon]

oh I thought it was a thread about grading interpretations of His teaching...you gave poor Thomas a D- good thing he didn't become part of the church canon or tradition...I was offering something EVEN LESS accurately interpreted AND accepted in church tradition...you know that Photo of the enmity Jews had of goyim...interpreted "as Sabbath was done away with"...that SHOULD receive poor marks right Coach?

:sigh: Little child. This is not the thread for this. Stop.

so sayeth you...a body which does not follow the Head...

Who cares what you, "OTHER" think? You are not a part of us, by choice. Who gives a rip, in your uneducated opinion, what you think? It is just this simple. And you are off topic like a scolded child.

Every time I've ever had to discipline kids in the classroom, it is nearly always this same response. You are off-task, rebellious, and undisciplined as the fringe kid "other." I've had some success but you simply have to listen, especially where another is trying to teach you something in some bit of compassion. To ignore that? All I've got are prayers. You simply have to respond well before you ever get to a point where an actual, meaningful, spiritual, and informative discussion can ever take place. Now? You are just in your own little world. I EARNED this degree. You did not, as badly as you want to believe you did. Others grade your work. Mine were high. Arrogance? Sometimes, but it is/was hard earned and I know the extent and/if limitations of earning these degrees. Wake up or stay the insolent student. Never forget YOU chose "Other" Without Christ's blessings. He calls the Body to not be divided. You've used one point, which you don't really understand, to DIVIDE yourself and then are championing further division. The Seventh Day Adventists, trained from Scriptures at an early age, JOINED the Body of Christ and learned to do something you cannot/will not at this point in your crusader life.

I cannot be your go-to person for all of these conversations. Until you come to a point where you can discuss these scriptures intelligently, both listening and presenting what you believe are counterpoints, there is no profit in our discussions. Move along until you reach that point. When you aren't so cocky, arrogant, and "other" come back and talk to me.

why out of the blue a thread on non canonical books anyway?

A bit on task, but this too comes from that bit of angst. The request was that you read the first post. This thread was started in response to its introduction in another thread. My concern was/is 'off-topic' in the thread in question, thus this one is set upon the narrow scope of the analysis of the book and you are off-task. The bulk of this page is 'off-task' for the focus and intent of this thread. It means the discussion and analysis of this book won't even be seen until page two now lain:

 

[clefty]

:sigh: Little child. This is not the thread for this. Stop.

Who cares what you, "OTHER" think? You are not a part of us, by choice. Who gives a rip, in your uneducated opinion, what you think? It is just this simple. And you are off topic like a scolded child.

Every time I've ever had to discipline kids in the classroom, it is nearly always this same response. You are off-task, rebellious, and undisciplined as the fringe kid "other." I've had some success but you simply have to listen, especially where another is trying to teach you something in some bit of compassion. To ignore that? All I've got are prayers. You simply have to respond well before you ever get to a point where an actual, meaningful, spiritual, and informative discussion can ever take place. Now? You are just in your own little world. I EARNED this degree. You did not, as badly as you want to believe you did. Others grade your work. Mine were high. Arrogance? Sometimes, but it is/was hard earned and I know the extent and/if limitations of earning these degrees. Wake up or stay the insolent student. Never forget YOU chose "Other" Without Christ's blessings. He calls the Body to not be divided. You've used one point, which you don't really understand, to DIVIDE yourself and then are championing further division. The Seventh Day Adventists, trained from Scriptures at an early age, JOINED the Body of Christ and learned to do something you cannot/will not at this point in your crusader life.

I cannot be your go-to person for all of these conversations. Until you come to a point where you can discuss these scriptures intelligently, both listening and presenting what you believe are counterpoints, there is no profit in our discussions. Move along until you reach that point. When you aren't so cocky, arrogant, and "other" come back and talk to me.


A bit on task, but this too comes from that bit of angst. The request was that you read the first post. This thread was started in response to its introduction in another thread. My concern was/is 'off-topic' in the thread in question, thus this one is set upon the narrow scope of the analysis of the book and you are off-task.

Wow...ummm...ok

Like I said in my first response to your OP...

"Hey Coach...why not use it as a teaching moment as to why certain books are not graded high enough for you...

throughout history they were accepted and STILL ARE...

Perhaps you could coach how some beliefs Christians hold today are influenced or even directly from the these books:​

​

Mary as virgin...no other kids..."

and then my list continued...

but certainly didn't mean all this...goodness

so...

do you think there are other examples of "poor recollections from hearings of the Gospel" from other non canonical works or even other sources? or just the Gospel of Thomas...was he like the worst ever maybe?

oh and do you think some of these non canonical works have influenced what we believe today?

 

[clefty]

:
A bit on task, but this too comes from that bit of angst. The request was that you read the first post. This thread was started in response to its introduction in another thread. My concern was/is 'off-topic' in the thread in question, thus this one is set upon the narrow scope of the analysis of the book and you are off-task. The bulk of this page is 'off-task' for the focus and intent of this thread. It means the discussion and analysis of this book won't even be seen until page two now lain:

Wonder if this guy would post here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxi5-6LdSpE


I appreciate his teaching on the topic of this thread

but yeah... his motivation to teach about this gospel was not to make it look as bad as possible because of a truth it revealed in another thread.

He seems more even keel and non flustered more tolerant of its content.

 

[chair]

Yeah, but not all of them are D-minus.

...as graded by...yourself. I wonder how you would have viewed Thomas if it had been included in the official Bible, while Luke had been unknown for centuries, until finally unearthed somewhere.

 

[Lon]

Wow...ummm...ok

Like I said in my first response to your OP...

"Hey Coach...why not use it as a teaching moment as to why certain books are not graded high enough for you...

throughout history they were accepted and STILL ARE...​

:doh: The Gospel of Thomas was recently found, not 'still are..." :dizzy:​

 

[Lon]

...as graded by...yourself. I wonder how you would have viewed Thomas if it had been included in the official Bible, while Luke had been unknown for centuries, until finally unearthed somewhere.

You haven't paid attention to the Protestant Reformation. We already looked for books with less than stellar credentials. I'd have simply done the same. Even your Tanakh excludes books so you are showing ignorance of your own traditions and God's hand in it to not see it continued with our BIble as well. My O.T. is the same as the Tanakh. Maccabees is good history, but it isn't scripture, thus not in your or my book.

 

[clefty]

:doh: The Gospel of Thomas was recently found, not 'still are..." :dizzy:

Seriously Coach stop giving yourself brain damage with all those head smacks...

It is noticeable you are missing some coherency...

I was referring to all the books non canonical to your canon...and not just the recently found Gospel of Thomas...some books still are accepted and as are beliefs from books rejected...you know like 27 “If you do not fast from the world, you will not find the (Father’s Kingdom. If you do not observe the sabbath as a sabbath you will not see the Father.” Gospel of Thomas

Probably because we are made in the image of the Father thus behaving as He does helps us “SEE HIM”...Holy makes Holy makes Holy...ya dig?

Speaking of images...did you wish to comment on that photo yet? of what was abolished?...hint: not a Law

 

[chair]

You haven't paid attention to the Protestant Reformation. We already looked for books with less than stellar credentials. I'd have simply done the same. Even your Tanakh excludes books so you are showing ignorance of your own traditions and God's hand in it to not see it continued with our BIble as well. My O.T. is the same as the Tanakh. Maccabees is good history, but it isn't scripture, thus not in your or my book.

What actually happens is that books that are considered more reliable by, and fit the ideology of, whoever is doing the canonization get in the canon and are afterwards called "scripture".

By the way, I do not take kindly to people who know almost nothing about my traditions telling me what they are and how I ought to think about them.

 

[Lon]

What actually happens is that books that are considered more reliable by, and fit the ideology of, whoever is doing the canonization get in the canon and are afterwards called "scripture".

By the way, I do not take kindly to people who know almost nothing about my traditions telling me what they are and how I ought to think about them.

I don't care what you take kindly (not to be mean, but blunt). I've read a LOT of your traditions. I could give a rip what you, yourself are ignorant of and THEN have the audacity to do it back with your initial question in thread. As it sits? Yeah, I don't think you know even your own traditions as well as you think you do at that point because you haven't bothered to walk in another's shoes nor do you recognize when your question is the SAME THING as being a Jew.

TRY to see your own hypocrisy. It'll give you a lot more grace and understanding in these conversations (granted we are both on "Smack of Truth" TOL). I am college trained which includes a good bit of Jewish commentary which I still read and refer back to going through the Old Testament. Then a good bit of the commentaries were done by converted Jews. Jesus said you Jews were the "light of the world" so try to appreciate a bit more. LIghts aren't defensive but on a positive offense that shines.