SABBATH KEEPING

Huckleberry

New member
awww man...you MAD? Odd that Paul has them reconciled in a body...I guess not truly assimilated to do as that body did...but encased in a special VIP cocoon of "law not for us"...but he continues Col 1:21 "And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard."
Colossians 1: 13-14
13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and [c]conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption [d]through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

Odd to that Paul wishes to make sure they are circumcised. 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ. WHY? I mean why even bother if they are to be a separate people...having differing works of repentance...
You illustrate one glaring difference right here with the difference between circumcision of the flesh and circumcision of the spirit. We are not required to circumcise today because we are not under the law, but grace.

Peter affirms Acts 15:7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: "Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith."
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

ummm...no...in fact your "Jesus changed the customs Moses gave to us" you know Israel at Sinai is EXACTLY what slandering Jews claimed Stephen was teaching...except Luke, as mentioned, called it a FALSE WITNESS as Stephen was NOT teaching Jesus changed anything for anybody...
I don't see where you're disagreeing with me. Stephen preached to those under the law, so of course any accusation of teaching a change in the customs of Moses would be false witness.

NOT SO FAST buddy...Acts 15 was exactly about gentiles crowding synagogues to hear Moses preached every Sabbath as James concluded it should be...
Not so fast. Acts 15 was all about Paul teaching gentiles that circumcision (of the flesh;among other things) was not necessary and the other apostles, once they'd interviewed Paul and heard his words, agreeing.

Of course gentiles crowding into synagogues every Sabbath to hear Moses preached as James concluded were expected to behave and keep the other laws...just like in the OT when once saved a mixed multitude of Native and FOREIGNERS were finally given a Law...for His people...because they were His people they were to keep His Sabbath Holy...Remember...and to the stranger in your gates...ONE LAW for Native and believing goyim alike...NO DISTINCTION...
You really should re-read Acts 15.


close...let no one judge you in KEEPING the New Moons AND sabbaths...I mean these goyim had their own calendar...of course their countrymen would be asking "but that is sooo Jewish" they still do...
You're really reaching, far beyond the plain language of the verse.

and for about 4 centuries up until past Constantine this small group was considered a superstitious Jewish cult...by the Romans...LOL...why would Romans do that if nothing made the body of Christ look Jewish?
For the same reason we Christians today haven't ripped the OT out of our bibles. To an alien we would look to be a strange Jewish sect.

Paul affirms this sect known as "the Way" was AS he worshipped according to the fathers..."However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets" Acts 24:14 no distinction between those joined in "the Way" both Jew and Gentile...
I'd be curious what you think Felix was so afraid of later in that chapter. And why he thought keeping Paul bound was doing the Jews a favor.

even biological law demands the grafted branch be in the same genius/family as the trunk to produce fruit at all...MORE similar not LESS...and yet here you and yours are claiming you don't need to produce fruit LIKE the trunk...or at all...LOL
Our fruit is of love, not works.

Colossians 5-6
5
because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth [a]fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth


so by under the law you mean Romans 6:14..."For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."

Sin does NOT have dominion over us...we have a new Master...Sin does not dominate us when we fail...we now have Grace...BECAUSE WE FAIL the still binding Law...and are no longer going to suffer sins eternal consequence...death...unconsciousness...void...as if we were never conceived...in Him we have life as if we were REBORN...oh wait is THAT why we WANT to keep His law?
So you keep saying, but even Romans 6:14 stands contrary.

Law is an owner's manual to follow and NOT in order to earn the car but because it already is ours...so we WANT TO keep it running and maximize our use of it...
I'll agree that the law has much to teach us, but we are not under the law as a means to righteousness. Righteousness is imputed to us through Christ's sacrifice.

is why Paul in the very next verse continues to the Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace? Absolutely not!

Romans 6:1-14
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
echoing what he told these believing goyim in chapter 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Which Law? The Son's NEW IMPROVED NOT FOR MY BODY Law or His PERFECT law as David called it...

why you make His kingdom an apartheid state? two classes of citizens those that do and those that don't? A house divided can not stand...no distinction remember? the wall between Jew and goyim destroyed...why you believe lying and slandering Jews who claim it was taught "Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered"...don't believe Jewish fables Titus urged...
Again, Stephen preached to those under the law, so of course he would teach the law and not that the customs of Moses be changed.

the New Covenant has His Law not a New Law or His Son's "abridged edited revised updated for goyim" Law put into the circumcised Heart the inner Jew...of His people...His WAY...cuz that is what it is like where "I AM"...

ok now we just got you to have faith that you are His people Israel...like it was in the OT...ONE law for both native and foreigner...as specified in the Sabbath commandment a perpetual sign of His obedient people...
A perpetual sign for both the native and the foreigner living inside Israel. This isn't even relevant to our discussion.

remember Matt 24:20 when Yahushua instructed prayers be said that in the future times of trouble NOT that they be saved or RAPTURED...NOT that the Temple be spared...but that the SABBATH would be KEPT...because "getting out of Dodge" is not really a Sabbath ya dig? Oh and winters...Yahushua also expected winter times to continue long after His DBR and ascension...
We are not the elect. We are Christians, of the Body of Christ.

now AD 70 was a time of trouble but many scholars insist Matt 24 also was about end of the world time of trouble...you know until when the jots and tittles will remain? Think not...He came to destroy...and changing or altering or giving two sets to two diverse peoples is exactly that...

as in the Sabbath commandment itself makes clear it is for Israel both native and stranger with in thy gates...Yahushua affirms it was made for MAN...not just Jews despite their lying false witnessing to monopolize Sabbath...it remains for His people Heb 4:9 no distinctions...
Hebrews 4:11-13
11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

This should cause you to tremble, having put yourself under the law.

mean what an odd body NOT doing what its Head does...
How many times did Christ supposedly violate the sabbath?
 
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Right Divider

Body part
If they were consistent with each other then you should be able to identify where Paul learned what his role was.

Again... Paul's "role" was not defined fully and completely in any singular event. It was given to Paul over time.

You are creating a "problem" where none exists.
 

Right Divider

Body part
You posted the common element about Paul seeing the light when the real issue was the different accounts of what he was told about his role.
It's obvious that you're a liar.
You are a false accuser and a liar. You are not reading the post that I QUOTED which had nothing to do with Paul seeing the light.
 

Theo102

New member
Paul's "role" was not defined fully and completely in any singular event. It was given to Paul over time.

The context was of Acts 9, 22, and 26. Whatever happened after Paul told his story to King Agrippa in Acts 26 is irrelevant. In Acts 26 Paul says that he was appointed as a minister and a witness on the road to Damascus, but earlier in Acts 22 he say that he was to be told all things that he was appointed to do at a later time.

Acts 22
10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.

Acts 26
15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and [from] the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
 

clefty

New member
Colossians 1: 13-14
13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and [c]conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption [d]through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.
yes HalleluYah we are delivered INTO A KINGDOM...with the forgiveness of sins...which ones? I mean remove the Law and there is no sin...we certainly are delivered...NOW WHAT? How we live? Just do whatever? As you were? As the world does...no works befitting repentance?...the Body of Christ gets a free pass no law do what thou whilst...?

Everybody else in this kingdom of the Son...WANTS to keep its laws grateful as all get out...WANTING TO BE MORE LIKE HIM less like their former selves and the world...but NOT the BOC they be above it all or something...do whatever whenever...kinda just like Lucifer who rebelled against the order and heirarchy...”no thanks NOT FOR ME”

Hey...I know...since according to you and yours the Law IS changeable...why NOT change it before He had to DIE...you know...just change it...do away with it...claim NOT FOR MY SON or something...

You illustrate one glaring difference right here with the difference between circumcision of the flesh and circumcision of the spirit. We are not required to circumcise today because we are not under the law, but grace.
firstly we are to be circumcised...of the heart...and B) OT NEVER taught it was salvific...how could something done to you by your parents on the 8th day of your life save you? Is why I reject infant baptism as salvific...they didnt choose to do it...duh...what about the ladies...they not saved? No circumcision for them...you think they have grace because it is NOT for them? They dont need to keep the other laws?

Why do we need grace is the Law is not for you? You have nothing to point out sin...why Grace? Just one time that first time and then you’re good eh? No need to still overcome...remain faithful to WHAT? Persevere survive persecution WHAT persecution? you are just like the world...love is all you need...do what thou whilst...no need to represent Him His Way...

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
LOL...awww poor baby I have seen body modifications and tattoos that are more painful than circumcision...LOL...but that is not what is meant with UNABLE TO BEAR...

The Judaizers stormed into town demanding full grown goyim men be circumcised according to the custom of Moses...do you recall what the custom of Moses was regarding circumcision? That a male infant 8 days old was circumcised by his parents WITHOUT having to decide if he should BEAR pain or not...get it? Yahushua Himself called out the hypocritical pharisees TWICE for giving others burdens to bear they themselves never lifted...Matt 23:4 Luke 11:46 they expected of others what they did not do...decide on circumcision as it was DONE TO THEM AT 8 DAYS OLD...of course they were NOT able to bear as it was done TO them...and of course these goyim ADULT men could not perform the custom of MOSES...

Besides circumcision was NEVER expected of the strangers within thy gates...Sabbath YES...but not circumcision...the goyim were SAVED from egypt just like the NATIVE...

Oh and purified of heart meant exactly they were circumcised of heart and the Holy Spirit saw NO DISTINCTION...as all the other stuff was the SAME TOO...they didnt meet on Sundays or eat HAM...or claim NOT FOR ME...

We are NOT under the Law because it was removed we are NOT under the LAW because of GRACE if we fail...and IN HIM our LOVE JUST LIKE HIS actually FULFILLS the Law...and by fulfill I mean as in keeps the law not destroys it...as in fulfills the recipe does not destroy the recipe...

BUT You claim you are not under the Law because it was removed or abolished or NOT FOR YOU...so what points out your need for Grace...the continued need of His working in you? To the end?


I don't see where you're disagreeing with me.
well again you think saved we dont have a law...I say saved we WANT the Law...you claim we keep the Law to get saved...we know it was faith in what He did for us that makes us grateful to be more Like Him...not our former selves or the world...

Stephen preached to those under the law, so of course any accusation of teaching a change in the customs of Moses would be false witness.
welll...Stephen did fail to mention that the BOC will NOT NEED to keep it...that is a HUGE change...as even in the OT...well you know strangers got the Sabbath...I mean did NOBODY sin prior SINAI? They didnt get the Law right? LOL the IRONY that specifically the Sabbath was given BEFORE the Jews were even around...BEFORE SIN even...WOW...in fact with the Manna the Sabbath was kept BEFORE SINAI and by goyim within their gates...Yahushua confirmed it was for MAN...not just Jews...no other commandment was singled out that way...NO killing was for man...NO stealing was for man...

And yet most ALL nations had those very laws...their gods must be proud...ours however added 4 more...I am Yah...make no images nor worship those made...dont take my name in vain...oh and the SABBATH...while all other nations had the other 6 ONLY ONE...HIS PEOPLE...had the first 4...but of course...NOT FOR ME...even knowing what He did for you...created everything in six days for you rested that you might...sent His Son to die so you didnt have too...but “nawww I am good...thanks but no thanks...not for me...what’s that? Oh sure I am grateful just doing my own thing though...thanks again”...the arrogance...seeking to change both times and Law...just wow...

What else is NOT FOR YOU...marriage...is that Jewish was instituted same time as Sabbath...how about woman...made for man...reject her too? LOL

You EXACTLY teach Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered to the mixed multitude at Sinai...your claim it is NOT FOR YOU is EXACTLY disproven in the VERY SABBATH COMMANDMENT...stranger got it even the animals just not the wife...LOL sabbath keepers joke...wife not listed in Ex


Not so fast. Acts 15 was all about Paul teaching gentiles that circumcision (of the flesh;among other things) was not necessary and the other apostles, once they'd interviewed Paul and heard his words, agreeing.
agreeing to what? 4 immediate things to fellowship with Jews crowding into synagogues with them to hear Moses preached every Sabbath as James conclude would continue..those 4 things were NOT about getting saved...or do you really think the BOC was not expected to keep more than 4 things...LOL..oh wait you do...as the BOC didnt need to keep the Law...so the kingdom is divided...


You really should re-read Act 15.
The part James concluded that Moses was going to continue to be read to BOC every Sabbath?



You're really reaching, far beyond the plain language of the verse.
plain language tells me that Paul reminds them of what was done for them since they were dead in their trespasses and the uncircumcision of their heart He has made alive...HOW GRATEFUL they must of been that One resurrected would allow them the same...you know cuz He wiped away the debt taking it out of the way...nailed their bill to the cross...of course they wanted to be more like Him His way...and joined the Way...thus kept the New Moons and Sabbaths of the nation of Israel...and not their own...so don’t LOSE your reward or lose grip to the Head from whom the BODY is knit together to DO WHAT IT WANTS? LOL certainly NOT we establish His Law...not our own Lawlessness...


For the same reason we Christians today haven't ripped the OT out of our bibles. To an alien we would look to be a strange Jewish sect.
uh? NO WAY...now you think aliens are blind...even the Calendar has been altered to divorce all things Jewish from Christendom...that wall that was supposed to be abolished and the two become one has been LITERALLY rebuilt...Jews and Christians now even have their SEPERATE paths into the kingdom...thanks to the MAD zionists...


I'd be curious what you think Felix was so afraid of later in that chapter.
Awesome question...It says right in the text...verse 22 Felix knew “the Way” its resurrected Hero and verse 24 when Paul spoke to him concerning the faith of Christ...NOW PAY ATTENTION...verse 25 Paul reasoned about righteousness SELF CONTROL and the JUDGEMENT to come...that is why Felix was afraid...NOT because Paul taught the Law was done away with or changed or Love alone is enough or Grace alone cuz you are no longer under the Law...oh yeah...that’s right...Paul DID NOT teach the Law was NOT for MARCUS ANTONIO FELIX of ROME...but that there was a judgement day coming...even for Felix...IS WHY He was afraid...Paul should have made him MAD...not afraid...LOL

And why he thought keeping Paul bound was doing the Jews a favor.
He held Paul hoping to get money...verse 26

Our fruit is of love, not works.

Colossians 5-6
5
because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth [a]fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth
a correcting love a seperating love a harvesting love FROM the world...a love NOT OF this world but of a kingdom also NOT of this world...a Lawful love...His character of Law...that where He is you might be also...a love on earth as it is in heaven...a Love JUST AS He loved us...and never did He love us with Sunday Ham dinners...ya dig?



So you keep saying, but even Romans 6:14 stands contrary.
contrary to what? Grace abolishes the Law? We might now sin? See IMMEDIATELY Paul answers what you claim...verse 15 CERTAINLY NOT shall we sin...and 16 we are SLAVES to OBEY not free to sin...slaves to obedience to WHAT? To righteousness! You know the Law which points out when we fail...but Grace keeps us from being under a law of sin and death...just like the traffic law becomes a ministry of death to my wallet ONLY when I break the Law...but if I was a foreign diplomat I would have the grace of having my fines paid...still under the law whenever I broke it...but well someone else pays...it is not like the traffic laws are NOT FOR ME...just someone else paid the bills...

I'll agree that the law has much to teach us, but we are not under the law as a means to righteousness. Righteousness is imputed to us through Christ's sacrifice.
BINGO and CORRECT and HALLELUYAH and it being imputed we NOW KEEP THE LAW...gratitude for having been saved and NOT to be saved...

and that work to continue to sanctify us and make us still more righteous MORE LIKE HIM...is a work HE does in us...until the end...is why we NEED GRACE STILL until the end...as even Paul knew we could lose it Peter warns of false teachers causing us to lose it too...



Romans 6:1-14
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.[/quote] and AGAIN YOU IGNORE VERSE 15 What then Shall we sin? Verse 16 slaves to obey...not free of law verse 17 though slaves you obeyed verse 18 having been SET FREE FROM SIN (not the LAW) you became slaves to righteousness...

Verse 23...the wages of sin is death...but but but waaaaite we are NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW TO POINT OUT OUR SIN...

Again, Stephen preached to those under the law, so of course he would teach the law and not that the customs of Moses be changed.
all have sinned not just jews...there are NOT two classes of citizens in His not of this world kingdom of Israel...


A perpetual sign for both the native and the foreigner living inside Israel. This isn't even relevant to our discussion.
for you as you reject the adoption and grafting into Israel...you rebuild the wall that seperates Jew from goyim...you seperate IN HIM the jew and gentile...you desire to remain alien and far off...now that Law Promise is NOT FOR YOU...you reject the Sabbath made before Israel but given to it as a sign of His people...a day off...as if it was made for Jews alone...that’s what they got you to believe...


We are not the elect. We are Christians, of the Body of Christ.
So now Jews have their own way...Believing Jews have theirs...and the BOC have still a third...and here I thought the way was narrow...

Sabbath was made for man...not just jews...or believing jews...




Hebrews 4:11-13
11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

This should cause you to tremble, having put yourself under the law.
Not at all...Sabbath was the Grace given man prior his need of it...before the fall...entering that rest as Yah did is what keeps me closer to Him less like the rest of the world...or my former self...accepting that Grace of Sabbath rest I know we have a great High Priest that if we hold fast to our confession we can come boldly to the throne of Grace...obtain mercy and grace...as we worship Him the Way which pleases Him...with Whom we made a perpetual sign both native and foreigner alike...in His Holy Sabbath...

How many times did Christ supposedly violate the sabbath?
you mean loosen if from man’s traditions? A few...but let’s play your “don’t know it in the greek” game...let’s pretend He did break it...

Just because Yah commanded Israel to kill...did that abrogate the don’t kill law? Where they allowed to kill now?

HOw about just because Yah commanded them to make a bronze serpent did that abolish the dont make image worship it Law? So they could go and make images and worship them?

How about when He instructed Hosea to marry the prostitute...did that allow Israel to go commit adultery?

It doesn’t make sense even if it were true...

Why would Yahushua abolish for anyone the very thing that authorizes Him as creator Lord...I am the Lord of the Sabbath until I abolish it not apply it to goyim...

I mean doesnt even Lord of London mean something to those not in London? Why would he destroy London...or Lord of the Rings...his rings...absurd...

Where He is the Law is kept...do you or do you not want to be restored to Him...it is that simple...as

And His people will be there as it was before sin was ever revealed..remade in His image doing as He does...
 

Lon

Well-known member
Whether it's questionable to Christendom or not isn't important.

If you are not a Christian? :think: Otherwise it is, since the rest of us are into body life. We don't take our Reformation lightly. We don't all want to be separate entities when scripture says those in Christ belong to each other. At that point, we want to ensure we know who is, and who is not, as well as what is, and what is not. Thus, whether it is important to you or not, is actually of less consequence than it being, not only 'questionable,' but rejected as acceptable (heresy).
No, people interpret scripture. Scripture is incapable of applying reason.
If above means you aren't Christian because 'it isn't important what Christendom views are heresy, then I can see why you'd think this was true. It isn't. 1 Corinthians 2:8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 However, as it is written:

“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”[b]
the things God has prepared for those who love him—

10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.[c] 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

There is also a consistency to the scriptures, coming from God, that in fact do cause one to think about them in terms of further teaching. I don't agree with Clefty in this thread, but I do on this point, because it is specifically why I believe the Sabbath is found, and kept, through Jesus Christ, thus scripture concerning it, is indeed understood (interpreted) by further passages, as instructions with cohesion from God.
 

Lon

Well-known member
LOL...awww poor baby ...LOL...

...LOL sabbath keepers joke... 4 things...LOL..oh wait .... DO WHAT IT WANTS? LOL



...but let’s play your “don’t know ... greek” game...
...

Not sure if you are aware that you do it as often as you do. There is no way to take such 'seriously' and discussion of God should be done with every sense of reverence for Him and His word.

We'll continue to disagree, of course, regarding Sabbath being an observation of a physical day, vs. a rest and indulgence in God. Through Christ, the Sabbath (communion with God) is permanent. In some ways, I see your "LOL's" and "Other" as an offense to how I've come to understand what the Sabbath actually is: Communion with God, enabled permanently, by the work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is a passing comment and observation. It isn't given for a long-winded response, just something for you to mull over or dismiss out of hand in the spirit of its intent. You've asked a couple of questions and this gave me an opportunity to address it for a moment.
 

JudgeRightly

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The context was of Acts 9, 22, and 26. Whatever happened after Paul told his story to King Agrippa in Acts 26 is irrelevant. In Acts 26 Paul says that he was appointed as a minister and a witness on the road to Damascus, but earlier in Acts 22 he say that he was to be told all things that he was appointed to do at a later time.

Acts 22
10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.

Acts 26
15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and [from] the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

If you had paid attention when reading the Bible, and particularly the New Testament, you'd realize that "all things" rarely, if ever, means literally "all things."

But that, I guess, assumes you've actually read the entirety of the NT, let alone the whole Bible... Have you?
 

Theo102

New member
If you had paid attention when reading the Bible, and particularly the New Testament, you'd realize that "all things" rarely, if ever, means literally "all things."

Especially when the phrase is made from whole cloth.

Acts 9
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
 

Huckleberry

New member
yes HalleluYah we are delivered INTO A KINGDOM...with the forgiveness of sins...which ones? I mean remove the Law and there is no sin...we certainly are delivered...NOW WHAT? How we live? Just do whatever? As you were? As the world does...no works befitting repentance?...the Body of Christ gets a free pass no law do what thou whilst...?
Galatians 2:16
16 yet we know that na person is not justified2 by works of the law obut through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, pbecause by works of the law no one will be justified.

Everybody else in this kingdom of the Son...WANTS to keep its laws grateful as all get out...WANTING TO BE MORE LIKE HIM less like their former selves and the world...but NOT the BOC they be above it all or something...do whatever whenever...kinda just like Lucifer who rebelled against the order and heirarchy...”no thanks NOT FOR ME”

Hey...I know...since according to you and yours the Law IS changeable...why NOT change it before He had to DIE...you know...just change it...do away with it...claim NOT FOR MY SON or something...
Christ's sacrifice was necessary to free us from the law.

firstly we are to be circumcised...of the heart...and B) OT NEVER taught it was salvific...how could something done to you by your parents on the 8th day of your life save you? Is why I reject infant baptism as salvific...they didnt choose to do it...duh...
James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

I do hope you're circumcised of the flesh. If not, having put yourself under the law, then you'd best get that fixed right away.

what about the ladies...they not saved? No circumcision for them...you think they have grace because it is NOT for them? They dont need to keep the other laws?
Thankfully, no they don't. Neither do you. The Good News is that Christ's sacrifice can save everyone from the law.

LOL...awww poor baby I have seen body modifications and tattoos that are more painful than circumcision...LOL...but that is not what is meant with UNABLE TO BEAR...
Peter was referring to keeping the whole law.


Oh and purified of heart meant exactly they were circumcised of heart and the Holy Spirit saw NO DISTINCTION...as all the other stuff was the SAME TOO...they didnt meet on Sundays or eat HAM...or claim NOT FOR ME...

We are NOT under the Law because it was removed we are NOT under the LAW because of GRACE if we fail...and IN HIM our LOVE JUST LIKE HIS actually FULFILLS the Law...and by fulfill I mean as in keeps the law not destroys it...as in fulfills the recipe does not destroy the recipe...
Galatians 5:2-3
Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.

BUT You claim you are not under the Law because it was removed or abolished or NOT FOR YOU...so what points out your need for Grace...the continued need of His working in you? To the end?
The law teaches the need for grace, but once you have accepted Christ's sacrifice you are no longer under the law.

Galatians 3:24-26
24 In fact, the Law was our teacher. It was supposed to teach us until we had faith and were acceptable to God. 25 But once a person has learned to have faith, there is no more need to have the Law as a teacher.
26 All of you are God’s children because of your faith in Christ Jesus.


well again you think saved we dont have a law...I say saved we WANT the Law...you claim we keep the Law to get saved...we know it was faith in what He did for us that makes us grateful to be more Like Him...not our former selves or the world...
James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.


plain language tells me that Paul reminds them of what was done for them since they were dead in their trespasses and the uncircumcision of their heart He has made alive...HOW GRATEFUL they must of been that One resurrected would allow them the same...you know cuz He wiped away the debt taking it out of the way...nailed their bill to the cross...of course they wanted to be more like Him His way...and joined the Way...thus kept the New Moons and Sabbaths of the nation of Israel...and not their own...so don’t LOSE your reward or lose grip to the Head from whom the BODY is knit together to DO WHAT IT WANTS? LOL certainly NOT we establish His Law...not our own Lawlessness...
You say the Christ's sacrifice was only sufficient to cover us when we stumble. I say Christ's sacrifice is sufficient to fulfill the law.

Yer again, I remind you...

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

..that wall that was supposed to be abolished and the two become one has been LITERALLY rebuilt...Jews and Christians now even have their SEPERATE paths into the kingdom...thanks to the MAD zionists...
John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.


contrary to what? Grace abolishes the Law? We might now sin? See IMMEDIATELY Paul answers what you claim...verse 15 CERTAINLY NOT shall we sin...and 16 we are SLAVES to OBEY not free to sin...slaves to obedience to WHAT? To righteousness! You know the Law which points out when we fail...but Grace keeps us from being under a law of sin and death...just like the traffic law becomes a ministry of death to my wallet ONLY when I break the Law...but if I was a foreign diplomat I would have the grace of having my fines paid...still under the law whenever I broke it...but well someone else pays...it is not like the traffic laws are NOT FOR ME...just someone else paid the bills...
Romans 6:20=23
20
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit [g]to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the [h]gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

BINGO and CORRECT and HALLELUYAH and it being imputed we NOW KEEP THE LAW...gratitude for having been saved and NOT to be saved...

and that work to continue to sanctify us and make us still more righteous MORE LIKE HIM...is a work HE does in us...until the end...is why we NEED GRACE STILL until the end...as even Paul knew we could lose it Peter warns of false teachers causing us to lose it too...
Galatians 5:3
And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.


verse 23...the wages of sin is death...but but but waaaaite we are NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW TO POINT OUT OUR SIN...
i think you're a little confused.

Romans 3:20
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

So now Jews have their own way...Believing Jews have theirs...and the BOC have still a third...and here I thought the way was narrow...
John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.


Where He is the Law is kept...do you or do you not want to be restored to Him...it is that simple...as
Acts
The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)​


Romans
The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)​
If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)​
The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)​
The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)​
Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)​
Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)​
The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)​
The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)​
The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)​
The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)​




1 Corinthians
The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56)​




2 Corinthians
The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7)​
The law is a ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9)​
The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)​
The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11)​
Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15)​




Galatians
The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)​
Christians are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19)​
The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)​
To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1)​
The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)​
The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)​
The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)​
The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16)​
If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)​
The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23)​
The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24)​




Ephesians
Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)​




Philippians
Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8)​




1 Timothy
The law is only good if used in the right context. (1 Timothy 1:8) (see next verse for the context)​
It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)​




Hebrews
The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)​
God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8)​
It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)​
It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)
https://www.phildrysdale.com/2013/10...under-the-law/
 
Last edited:

clefty

New member
Galatians 2:16
16 yet we know that na person is not justified2 by works of the law obut through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, pbecause by works of the law no one will be justified.
right...got it...had it...Law is NOT TO JUSTIFY...just point out our need of it...by Him...and once we are justified then what?


Christ's sacrifice was necessary to free us from the law.
was it? apparently His IMMUTABLE Law isn't...

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
yup...is WHY we need Grace long after we are saved...but on our way to sanctification righteousness...a work He does IN US who are DEAD to ourselves and the world...oh and sin its eternal punishment for failing the Law...stumble indeed...might even cause another brother to stumble teaching "NO MORE LAW"...or go ahead eat meat offered to idols...

I do hope you're circumcised of the flesh. If not, having put yourself under the law, then you'd best get that fixed right away.
no burden...didn't have to choose that...my parents did...His Law is not burdensome...Yoke is easy...more importantly a circumcised heart you know the "inner Jew"...was NEVER sacrifice not Mercy...but rather learn Mercy rather than sacrifice...only His blood changes things...us into WANTING to live His Faith lifestyle..


Thankfully, no they don't. Neither do you. The Good News is that Christ's sacrifice can save everyone from the law.
the law you mean of sin and death as when you break it you have wages...those wages are what He saves us from...not the Law...we die to the Law...the Law does NOT die...

traffic laws remember? we are all under them...MOST felt when the ticket must be paid for breaking a law we thought didn't exist or apply...

sin sacrifices were actually ONLY for those wages, offenses, sins...ones unintentional or of ignorance or of omission...

that is what Yahushua saved us from the wages...not the Law...Law remains to remind us of our NEED of Him...His wage paying


Peter was referring to keeping the whole law.
was he? So he claims the Law is a burden unable to bear? Wow...yup a LONG LONG way from "thy Law is a delight"...Peter instead warns of false teachers wolves and to the twisting of Paul's writings to UNSTABLE minds...a mind NOT grafted or rooted...in Him His way...


Galatians 5:2-3
Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
right Yahushua Himself stated "flesh profits NOTHING...it is the Spirit" One who thinks that they have to do anything to earn salvation that anything they think they have to do profits NOTHING...including circumcision...and if you think you HAVE to get circumcised well you righteousness best surpass the Pharisees 10x I think was the teaching...


The law teaches the need for grace,
ok we are DONE...thanks...

but once you have accepted Christ's sacrifice you are no longer under the law.
so you mean we are no longer in need of grace because you just got rid of what teaches the need for grace...is JUST what you said...

Galatians 3:24-26
24 In fact, the Law was our teacher. It was supposed to teach us until we had faith and were acceptable to God. 25 But once a person has learned to have faith, there is no more need to have the Law as a teacher.
26 All of you are God’s children because of your faith in Christ Jesus.
right because when we have faith and become God's children we GO AGAINST or CONTRARY what the Law taught us? or KEEP ANOTHER LAW? or like you claim are now LAWLESS...?

Certainly NOT...we are to establish the Law...we are made slaves to a righteous Master...who has NO LAW? absurd..


James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
sure...a foul is a foul...even in a game...you break one you busted...you are condemned in need of grace...is why so many add to their sins in growing rebelling...oh well might as well...pathetic...look what James follows with

11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. 12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

again Mercy rather than sacrifice...grace rather than punishment no matter which rule you break...you broke 'em all...

Seen it myself...playing tennis my opponent fouls and then escalates his fouling...ridiculous...but foul once and well you fouled...cant cherry pick which rule you can foul and which you can't...or like in football...fouls that are unnecessary or personal or additional...well which fouls were necessary? LOL...oh sorry...that annoys some around here...





You say the Christ's sacrifice was only sufficient to cover us when we stumble. I say Christ's sacrifice is sufficient to fulfill the law.
it was...we are saved...NOW WHAT? do as you did before...as the world does? we are Lawless?

What does fulfill mean to you? To abolish? Fulfilling the traffic speed limit does NOT abolish it for the driver behind me...

How about fulfill as in a recipe...you know getting all the instructions correct= Yahushua the telos/ goal of the Law not its cessation...what's the use of a one time recipe?

Yer again, I remind you...

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
That has nothing to do with what you are arguing...you are arguing that One player kept all the rules thus now the game has NO RULES...

again...break one rule you have a wage...that is DEATH...in fact break one rule you didn't even KNOW you broke...you have a wage...that is DEATH...it's not just put into penalty box or a yellow card or lose yards...or even kicked off the team...or banned from the sport...because IN HIM...you foul less and get to keep improving your game...


John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.
and to those hearing that they knew He meant exactly what the TORAH claimed of ITSELF...For I command you today to love YHWH, bto walk in his ways[/b], and to keep his commands, decrees and laws(Deut. 30:15-16) *Your Torah is TRUTH! (Psalms 119:142) be careful to obey all the words of this Torah (Law). 47 For this is not a trivial matter for you; on the contrary, it is your LIFE! (Deut. 32:47)

No one comes to the Father except through Me
yup the Word was indeed made Flesh the goal of the Law...and He did what NOT teach to keep His Father's Will? He did NOT demonstrate HOW to love His Love? He did NOT teach to keep the commandments if you loved Him? He actually instructed prayers to be said that the SABBATH be kept LONG AFTER He returned to His Father's kingdom...OF LAW same Law...


Romans 6:20=23
20
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit [g]to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the [h]gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
aww man you missed verse 19"... so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness." HOW without the Law pointing it out...both need of Him His way and sin...

besides we are free from sin not from the Law being abolished that means we are free TO sin...but being made free from sin means we are free from its MASTERY dominion its consequences...just like having somebody else pay your traffic ticket does NOT mean you are free to speed again as it removed the speed limit...


Galatians 5:3
And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
right all ready covered how circumcision does nothing for sin...NEVER DID...and an adult male getting circumcised reveals a desire to earn salvation through works...NEVER TAUGHT IN THE OT


i think you're a little confused.

Romans 3:20
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
nope YOU are the one claiming there is no more law...so then no more knowledge of our sin and need of Him...and of course by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified...we do the deeds of the law AFTER we are justified by what He did and for us...IN US...until we run the race...overcome until the end...you know "and do works meet for repentance." —Acts 26:19,20...

John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
but you threw the Law away...got rid of it...as if the BOC didn't have to do it...just the Jews or the believing Jews...so many different ways besides His WAY walk ye in it...BOC: "nope no thanks NOT FOR US"



Acts
The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)​

so NO laws then...not even those 4 given to begin fellowship...James concluded crowding goyim would continue to hear Moses preached every Sabbath...


Romans
The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)​

yup...reveals our need to fix and Who can
If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14

right but it was not designed to do that...
The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15
the final half of that text is what you want...no law no sin
The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)​

increase sin? you mean abound to increase grace...
Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)​

yup have a new Master with same Law btw...IF you love Him
Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)​

yup but Law remains which we serve by the Spirit
The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)​

yup still IS and for us...all of us even the BOC
The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)​

duh cuz you broke the Law...wages paid for though...HalleluYah
The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)​

makes sin sinful to appear sinful...
The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)
to perfect you sure...not designed to do that...





1 Corinthians
The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56)​


right because the Law points it out...






2 Corinthians
The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7)​


only when you break it...was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away
The law is a ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9)​


only when you break it...had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory
The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)​


its glory is surpassed by One...
The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11)​


For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15)​


unless IN HIM you want to fulfill the Law...then He takes away the veil so that you can read what is expected of you to do works befitting repentance...






Galatians
The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)​


yup...He does and then you WANT to do works befitting repentance
Christians are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19)​


right but it remains...just in case you didn't die to it or live IN HIM
The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)​


only if you think you must keep it to receive grace
To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1)​


faith without works is stupid...galatians Celts were going back to their previous customs...not back to torah...
The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)​


yup is why we need Grace...
The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)​


but faith then keeps the Law
The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)​


yup the curse not the Law
The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16)​


yes so now in Him we are Lawless...got it...
If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)​


He did...just didn't give life by it...
The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23)​


to the uncircumcised rebellious heart still is
The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24)​


yes yes because the son of promise has NO LAW...






Ephesians
Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)​


nope actually it was the enmity the Jews had of goyim...which made them build a literal wall to keep them separate...is why He abolished it to let the goyim back into the camp making ONE new man of the two...citizens of Israel...but you skipped a lot...HAVE TO in order to keep this wall up...





Philippians
Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8)​


right...big deal...Mercy rather than sacrifice...most of the OT was only plan B...ARE shadows of the good things still to come...






1 Timothy
The law is only good if used in the right context. (1 Timothy 1:8) (see next verse for the context)​
It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)​


big deal so are the traffic laws...






Hebrews
The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)​

yup just points out our need...
God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8)​

yup...put His Law into it...not new Law or better Law or your NO LAW or NOT FOR US Law...
It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)​

the covenant was indeed...not the Law...
It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)
yup...but there still remains a Law...His Law


https://www.phildrysdale.com/2013/10...under-the-law/







wait wut? that was a copy paste job? you didn't do yourself? oh man...

thought all that genius was yours...devilish of you...

speaking of...even Satan knows scripture and believes Yahushua is the Son of Yah but like you Satan doesn't find it necessary to follow Him do AS He did...Obey Him His Way...

as with you Satan claims..."nawww all that is NOT FOR ME"

maybe if we keep studying and not just copy pasting?

burned up my whole lunch hour...
 

Huckleberry

New member
right...got it...had it...Law is NOT TO JUSTIFY...just point out our need of it...by Him...and once we are justified then what?
Why does the Holy Spirit dwell within us?

was it? apparently His IMMUTABLE Law isn't...
Hebrews 9;11-14
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

yup...is WHY we need Grace long after we are saved...but on our way to sanctification righteousness...a work He does IN US who are DEAD to ourselves and the world...oh and sin its eternal punishment for failing the Law...stumble indeed...might even cause another brother to stumble teaching "NO MORE LAW"...or go ahead eat meat offered to idols...
Why not?

no burden...didn't have to choose that...my parents did...His Law is not burdensome...Yoke is easy...more importantly a circumcised heart you know the "inner Jew"...was NEVER sacrifice not Mercy...but rather learn Mercy rather than sacrifice...only His blood changes things...us into WANTING to live His Faith lifestyle..
I'm curious what you think you were saved from if not the law. Assuming you think you were saved at all.


the law you mean of sin and death as when you break it you have wages...those wages are what He saves us from...not the Law...we die to the Law...the Law does NOT die...

traffic laws remember? we are all under them...MOST felt when the ticket must be paid for breaking a law we thought didn't exist or apply...

sin sacrifices were actually ONLY for those wages, offenses, sins...ones unintentional or of ignorance or of omission...

that is what Yahushua saved us from the wages...not the Law...Law remains to remind us of our NEED of Him...His wage paying
You don't seem to have any idea what it means to be dead to the law.

was he? So he claims the Law is a burden unable to bear? Wow...yup a LONG LONG way from "thy Law is a delight"...Peter instead warns of false teachers wolves and to the twisting of Paul's writings to UNSTABLE minds...a mind NOT grafted or rooted...in Him His way...
Where in scripture are you getting that from?

right Yahushua Himself stated "flesh profits NOTHING...it is the Spirit" One who thinks that they have to do anything to earn salvation that anything they think they have to do profits NOTHING...including circumcision...and if you think you HAVE to get circumcised well you righteousness best surpass the Pharisees 10x I think was the teaching...
We are agreed here.

ok we are DONE...thanks...

so you mean we are no longer in need of grace because you just got rid of what teaches the need for grace...is JUST what you said...
That's not even close to what I said. I quoted Galatians 3:24-26. Try reading the verses again.

right because when we have faith and become God's children we GO AGAINST or CONTRARY what the Law taught us? or KEEP ANOTHER LAW? or like you claim are now LAWLESS...?

Certainly NOT...we are to establish the Law...we are made slaves to a righteous Master...who has NO LAW? absurd..
Abraham was not under the law.

sure...a foul is a foul...even in a game...you break one you busted...you are condemned in need of grace...is why so many add to their sins in growing rebelling...oh well might as well...pathetic...look what James follows with

11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. 12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

again Mercy rather than sacrifice...grace rather than punishment no matter which rule you break...you broke 'em all...

Seen it myself...playing tennis my opponent fouls and then escalates his fouling...ridiculous...but foul once and well you fouled...cant cherry pick which rule you can foul and which you can't...or like in football...fouls that are unnecessary or personal or additional...well which fouls were necessary? LOL...oh sorry...that annoys some around here...
At least we agree that the law does not lead to righteousness. Your stubborn adherence to a law which you are supposed to be dead to is where we disagree.


it was...we are saved...NOW WHAT? do as you did before...as the world does? we are Lawless?

What does fulfill mean to you? To abolish? Fulfilling the traffic speed limit does NOT abolish it for the driver behind me...

How about fulfill as in a recipe...you know getting all the instructions correct= Yahushua the telos/ goal of the Law not its cessation...what's the use of a one time recipe?
Bad news: Christ has died once for you, he won't do it again and again.

and to those hearing that they knew He meant exactly what the TORAH claimed of ITSELF...For I command you today to love YHWH, bto walk in his ways[/b], and to keep his commands, decrees and laws(Deut. 30:15-16) *Your Torah is TRUTH! (Psalms 119:142) be careful to obey all the words of this Torah (Law). 47 For this is not a trivial matter for you; on the contrary, it is your LIFE! (Deut. 32:47)
Romans 10:9-10
"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

yup the Word was indeed made Flesh the goal of the Law...and He did what NOT teach to keep His Father's Will? He did NOT demonstrate HOW to love His Love? He did NOT teach to keep the commandments if you loved Him? He actually instructed prayers to be said that the SABBATH be kept LONG AFTER He returned to His Father's kingdom...OF LAW same Law...
Did He not instruct Paul?


aww man you missed verse 19"... so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness." HOW without the Law pointing it out...both need of Him His way and sin...

besides we are free from sin not from the Law being abolished that means we are free TO sin...but being made free from sin means we are free from its MASTERY dominion its consequences...just like having somebody else pay your traffic ticket does NOT mean you are free to speed again as it removed the speed limit...
1 Corinthians 10:23
23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.


nope YOU are the one claiming there is no more law...so then no more knowledge of our sin and need of Him...
The one does not follow the other.

and of course by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified...we do the deeds of the law AFTER we are justified by what He did and for us...IN US...until we run the race...overcome until the end...you know "and do works meet for repentance." —Acts 26:19,20...
Romans 3:24-28
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


but you threw the Law away...got rid of it...as if the BOC didn't have to do it...just the Jews or the believing Jews...so many different ways besides His WAY walk ye in it...BOC: "nope no thanks NOT FOR US"
Indeed, the law has brought me to Christ and through His sacrifice I am saved from the law.


Acts
The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)​

so NO laws then...not even those 4 given to begin fellowship...James concluded crowding goyim would continue to hear Moses preached every Sabbath...


Romans
The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)​

yup...reveals our need to fix and Who can
If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14

right but it was not designed to do that...
The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15
the final half of that text is what you want...no law no sin
The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)​

increase sin? you mean abound to increase grace...
Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)​

yup have a new Master with same Law btw...IF you love Him
Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)​

yup but Law remains which we serve by the Spirit
The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)​

yup still IS and for us...all of us even the BOC
The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)​

duh cuz you broke the Law...wages paid for though...HalleluYah
The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)​

makes sin sinful to appear sinful...
The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)
to perfect you sure...not designed to do that...

1 Corinthians
The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56)​


right because the Law points it out...


2 Corinthians
The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7)​


only when you break it...was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away
The law is a ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9)​


only when you break it...had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory
The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)​


its glory is surpassed by One...
The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11)​


For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15)​


unless IN HIM you want to fulfill the Law...then He takes away the veil so that you can read what is expected of you to do works befitting repentance...


Galatians
The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)​


yup...He does and then you WANT to do works befitting repentance
Christians are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19)​


right but it remains...just in case you didn't die to it or live IN HIM
The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)​


only if you think you must keep it to receive grace
To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1)​


faith without works is stupid...galatians Celts were going back to their previous customs...not back to torah...
The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)​


yup is why we need Grace...
The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)​


but faith then keeps the Law
The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)​


yup the curse not the Law
The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16)​


yes so now in Him we are Lawless...got it...
If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)​


He did...just didn't give life by it...
The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23)​


to the uncircumcised rebellious heart still is
The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24)​


yes yes because the son of promise has NO LAW...


Ephesians
Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)​


nope actually it was the enmity the Jews had of goyim...which made them build a literal wall to keep them separate...is why He abolished it to let the goyim back into the camp making ONE new man of the two...citizens of Israel...but you skipped a lot...HAVE TO in order to keep this wall up...


Philippians
Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8)​


right...big deal...Mercy rather than sacrifice...most of the OT was only plan B...ARE shadows of the good things still to come...


1 Timothy
The law is only good if used in the right context. (1 Timothy 1:8) (see next verse for the context)​
It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)​


big deal so are the traffic laws...


Hebrews
The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)​

yup just points out our need...
God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8)​

yup...put His Law into it...not new Law or better Law or your NO LAW or NOT FOR US Law...
It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)​

the covenant was indeed...not the Law...
It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)
yup...but there still remains a Law...His Law


https://www.phildrysdale.com/2013/10...under-the-law/

You argue against scripture quite a lot.
 
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clefty

New member
Why does the Holy Spirit dwell within us?
to keep us from doing works befitting repentance...to live contrary to that Law that was done away with...? Have us become less like Him and His way...


Hebrews 9;11-14
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; not a better Law to serve as Hight Priest of good things to come...but a greater and more perfect tabernacle which houses the Law...
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. because of an Immutable law...otherwise it could have been changed...
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: yup the blood of bulls and of goats DID sanctify but not enough so
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? yup dead works are purged...any not befitting repentance to serve the living God...and how do we serve Him? Keeping His commandments...to the end...overcome to the last trump...
why not what? eat meat offered to idols? Because it was agreed from previous OT Law that believing goyim would not...Acts 15:29You must abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Just like goyim were expected to in the OT. Paul even flushed it out further that it prevent a weaker brother from stumbling...

I'm curious what you think you were saved from if not the law. Assuming you think you were saved at all.
the consequences of the breaking the law turning that PERFECT Law into a ministry of death and not a law of liberty...kinda like the constitution is FOR you until it is ruled AGAINST you...usually cuz ya did something not constitutionally sanctioned...



You don't seem to have any idea what it means to be dead to the law.
sure I do...it doesn't mean the Law is dead...done away with no longer binding NOT FOR ME


Where in scripture are you getting that from?
Seriously you don't recognize it? For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. Rom 7:22
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you

2 Peter 2:1
just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
2 Peter 3:15-16
you,
although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing rootof the olive tree Romans 11:17

Therefore, just as you have received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to walk in Him, 7rooted and built up in Him, established in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness. Col 2:7



We are agreed here.
because you think I am saying no need to keep Law...when I am actually saying nothing we can do in our flesh profits for "getting SAVED" but once we are...

That's not even close to what I said.

you agreed to this: The law teaches the need for grace, ok we are DONE...thanks...


you still claim this: but once you have accepted Christ's sacrifice you are no longer under the law.


I responded: so you mean we are no longer in need of grace because you just got rid of what teaches the need for grace...is JUST what you said...

I quoted Galatians 3:24-26. Try reading the verses again.
ok did...what happens when faith? we go contrary to Law? we abolish Law? we claim it is NOT FOR ME...Certainly NOT we establish the Law we uphold the Law...you claim accepting Christ's sacrifice means one is no longer under the law...


Abraham was not under the law.
sure He was...because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws. Gen 26:5 therein lies yet another danger to your reasoning...namely that Yah's Law is NOT ETERNAL or IMMUTABLE but changes and is applied differently according to custom as the Catholic Catechism describes it.

At least we agree that the law does not lead to righteousness.
but it does...it does not justify...but certainly leads to righteousness by pointing out sin...and TO Whom can remove it for you...the sin conseguence of sin...NOT the Law pointing it out...

Your stubborn adherence to a law which you are supposed to be dead to is where we disagree.
I am dead to it...made alive IN HIM less likely to "come under the Law" again by breaking it as I have even the Spirit to guide and encourage me to flee sin...NOT THE LAW


Bad news: Christ has died once for you, he won't do it again and again.
Once is enough...you think that was the point of the Law a ministry of death? HARDLY it is a description of what life is like where "I AM" is...it is NOT a recipe for death as fulfilling it you would die...but a recipe of LIFE...do this and LIVE here and in the NEXT LIFE...


Romans 10:9-10
"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."
saved from what? A law you claim is removed done away with NOT EVEN FOR YOU? Of course you will...you are saved NO WHAT how do you live like you former self like the world? Or more and more LIKE HIM...and Holy...

again...we do not keep the LAW to get saved...we WANT to keep the Law because we ALREADY ARE...why is it so hard for you to...oh nevermind...you just wanna do whatever you want...

Did He not instruct Paul?
sure IS WHY Paul kept Sabbath still...and taught goyim to do the same...as they ARE shadows of good things to come...still...in 2020



1 Corinthians 10:23
23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
so you can live contrary to as He lived? that is not expedient...certainly not edifying to others...but exactly a false witness like Jews claimed that Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered...


The one does not follow the other.
sure it does...you claim law is done away with...so what points out sin?

Romans 3:24-28
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

yup and halleluYah...we can not earn salvation...but we keep the Law because we are SAVED...so others might know and see the difference...and know us by our fruits...and Spirit and Love His love...you wouldn't even give your employees rest in your "every day is rest day in Jesus"...work them 7 daze a week would you...that is NOT His Love.

Indeed, the law has brought me to Christ and through His sacrifice I am saved from the law.
ok then you are a lawless man...but as Paul taught even Felix...judgement day is coming...with a Law you think has been done away with...




You argue against scripture quite a lot.
not arguing scripture...establishing it...arguing it back from those without law who teach others to stumble not going into the kingdom of His Law themselves and keeping others out of it...but would rather man’s tradition of whatever whenever...

argue it back from those that would change both times and Law...
 

Huckleberry

New member
to keep us from doing works befitting repentance...to live contrary to that Law that was done away with...? Have us become less like Him and His way...

You didn't answer my question. Why does the Holy Spirit dwell within us?

Hebrews 9;11-14
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; not a better Law to serve as Hight Priest of good things to come...but a greater and more perfect tabernacle which houses the Law...
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. because of an Immutable law...otherwise it could have been changed...
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: yup the blood of bulls and of goats DID sanctify but not enough so
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? yup dead works are purged...any not befitting repentance to serve the living God...and how do we serve Him? Keeping His commandments...to the end...overcome to the last trump...
I;m becoming more and more convinced that you're making this stuff up as you go along. I certainly don't see a lot of scripture supporting your assertions.


why not what? eat meat offered to idols? Because it was agreed from previous OT Law that believing goyim would not...Acts 15:29You must abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Just like goyim were expected to in the OT. Paul even flushed it out further that it prevent a weaker brother from stumbling...
Then why do you not limit yourself to keeping these five things? Why the vain (and it certainly is vain) attempt to keep the whole law?

the consequences of the breaking the law turning that PERFECT Law into a ministry of death and not a law of liberty...kinda like the constitution is FOR you until it is ruled AGAINST you...usually cuz ya did something not constitutionally sanctioned...
Then you work in vain, and knowingly.


sure I do...it doesn't mean the Law is dead...done away with no longer binding NOT FOR ME
I think you're confused. Pray tell what you think it means to be dead to the law.


Seriously you don't recognize it? For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. Rom 7:22
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you



2 Peter 2:1
just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
2 Peter 3:15-16
you,
although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing rootof the olive tree Romans 11:17



Therefore, just as you have received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to walk in Him, 7rooted and built up in Him, established in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness. Col 2:7
Romans 7:21-25
21
I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

Romans 11:28-33

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has [h]committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!

Collosians 2:6-23
6 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding [d]in it with thanksgiving.

8 Beware lest anyone [e]cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead [f]bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all [g]principality and power.

11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body [h]of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the [i]handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a [j]festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the [k]substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has [l]not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

20 [m]Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and [n]neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.


because you think I am saying no need to keep Law...when I am actually saying nothing we can do in our flesh profits for "getting SAVED" but once we are...
,,,once you are you revert back to keeping the law. A law that now profits you nothing.


you agreed to this: The law teaches the need for grace, ok we are DONE...thanks...

you still claim this: but once you have accepted Christ's sacrifice you are no longer under the law.

I responded: so you mean we are no longer in need of grace because you just got rid of what teaches the need for grace...is JUST what you said...
ok did...what happens when faith? we go contrary to Law? we abolish Law? we claim it is NOT FOR ME...Certainly NOT we establish the Law we uphold the Law...you claim accepting Christ's sacrifice means one is no longer under the law...
You're arguing against scripture, not just with me.

Galatians 3:24-26
24 Therefore the law was our [a]tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.


sure He was...because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws. Gen 26:5 therein lies yet another danger to your reasoning...namely that Yah's Law is NOT ETERNAL or IMMUTABLE but changes and is applied differently according to custom as the Catholic Catechism describes it.
Galatians 3:1-9
1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you [a]that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed [b]among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so [c]many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.


but it does...it does not justify...but certainly leads to righteousness by pointing out sin...and TO Whom can remove it for you...the sin conseguence of sin...NOT the Law pointing it out...
Galatians 2:16
Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.


I am dead to it...made alive IN HIM less likely to "come under the Law" again by breaking it as I have even the Spirit to guide and encourage me to flee sin...NOT THE LAW
What do you mean "less likely"? Either you are dead to the law or you are not.


Once is enough...you think that was the point of the Law a ministry of death? HARDLY it is a description of what life is like where "I AM" is...it is NOT a recipe for death as fulfilling it you would die...but a recipe of LIFE...do this and LIVE here and in the NEXT LIFE...
You can't have it both ways. Either you follow the law for righteousness or you do it in an effort to please God. You've claimed both. Which is it?


saved from what? A law you claim is removed done away with NOT EVEN FOR YOU? Of course you will...you are saved NO WHAT how do you live like you former self like the world? Or more and more LIKE HIM...and Holy...

again...we do not keep the LAW to get saved...we WANT to keep the Law because we ALREADY ARE...why is it so hard for you to...oh nevermind...you just wanna do whatever you want...
The reason you stubbornly cling to the law is that it puffs you up, to your own self-righteousness. Being saved already, it profits you nothing else.



sure IS WHY Paul kept Sabbath still...and taught goyim to do the same...as they ARE shadows of good things to come...still...in 2020
Collosians 2:16-23
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a [j]festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the [k]substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has [l]not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.
20 [m]Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and [n]neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.


so you can live contrary to as He lived? that is not expedient...certainly not edifying to others...but exactly a false witness like Jews claimed that Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered...
You're arguing with Paul, not me.

sure it does...you claim law is done away with...so what points out sin?
I haven't claimed anywhere, to my knowledge, that the law is done away with. Every unsaved person is still under the law. What I've said, consistently, it that we are no longer under the law.


yup and halleluYah...we can not earn salvation...but we keep the Law because we are SAVED...so others might know and see the difference...and know us by our fruits...and Spirit and Love His love....
You certainly aren't going to receive many converts preaching the law. Teaching that they are under the law and that Christ's sacrifice can free them from it is another matter. I highly recommend that approach.

ok then you are a lawless man...but as Paul taught even Felix...judgement day is coming...with a Law you think has been done away with...
I thought we were dead to the law. Again, which is it? Make up your mind.


not arguing scripture...establishing it...arguing it back from those without law who teach others to stumble not going into the kingdom of His Law themselves and keeping others out of it...but would rather man’s tradition of whatever whenever...

argue it back from those that would change both times and Law...
"The kingdom of His law"? Again, which is it? Are we dead to the law or not?
 

clefty

New member
You didn't answer my question. Why does the Holy Spirit dwell within us?
Ummm right...the inverse to what I wrote is closer...

I;m becoming more and more convinced that you're making this stuff up as you go along. I certainly don't see a lot of scripture supporting your assertions.
yes at work is probably not the best environment to do this sort of back and forth...not sure you really are trying to see but what you have already chosen...but you rather than address my answers you keep shifting goal posts and now resort to “you just making it up”...I could just as easily said you’re a reprobate and spared myself time for work rather than chase you around your clever loopholes and NOT FOR ME...could easily just leave it at:

Titus 1:6
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

1 John 2:
3By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments. 4If anyone says, “I know Him,” but does not keep His commandments, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone keeps His word, the love of God has been truly perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6Whoever claims to abide in Him must walk as Jesus walked.

Jude 1:4
For certain men have crept in among you unnoticed--ungodly ones who were designated long ago for condemnation. They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

A Master without rules for us? That is denying Him.

Then why do you not limit yourself to keeping these five things?
5 oh you mean you agree you see James maintain the law of Moses will still be heard every Sabbath by these believing goyim...well see that’s just it...5 is no where near His Way...known as “the Way” 3 of these were to show how even lamb meat could be made unclean...offered to idols, strangled and full of blood...those Greeks crowding into synagogues every Sabbath WANTED to be well mannered and proper guests for the potluck to follow...

and yet even today rare steak is all the rage I hear...but not what the council determined for the believing goyim...the BOC...rebellion to manners and proper conduct stems from uncircumcised deceptive hearts...no Christ mind there

Why the vain (and it certainly is vain) attempt to keep the whole law?
what’s so vain about trying to keep the rules of any social function sacred or secular...NOT TO GAIN ENTRANCE but because we were invited and WANT TO BE THERE...so its vain to keep the rules of a game...or relationship...we are not barbarians or lawless...imagine telling your team...”oh that rule is not for me”...or your lover...”oh you wanted me to do that?”


Then you work in vain, and knowingly.
how is knowing you are a citizen of a country and desirous to be a good one working in vain by behaving in accordance to its Law? Now if I was keeping Japanese law while in Kenya in hopes to get citizenship of Japan that would be in vain...How is it to play on a team according to the rules of the game in vain during the game? Maybe if you played in hopes of making the team yes your work might be in vain...

Those of us who believe ourselves to be His people...do not play in order to become His people...we play according to His rules because we already ARE HIS PEOPLE...citizens of His...playing for His team...

Do hope it is starting to clarify for you over there in “NOT FOR ME” land...a stranger outside His people refusing to play along


I think you're confused. Pray tell what you think it means to be dead to the law.
already have but you shift the goal posts so much you forget your own racket you have here...

Dead to the Law is dead to the consequences of breaking the Law...the Law remains you are dead like the animal that was slain as an offering FOR YOU...and thus your WAGES for breaking the Law are settled...THE LAW REMAINS but you are dead...no longer your own as you are covered PAID FOR...by HIM having done nothing but accept and now in return be grateful and of course do works befitting repentance...as you realize that dead animal should have been you paying your own debt...but IN HIM you are untouchable...ya dig?



Romans 7:21-25
21
I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.
see? Paul wants to do good.

22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
well well well imagine that...

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind,
WHAT IS IN HIS MIND PUT THERE BY YAH? Oh yeah His LAW...

and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
yup that Law in his mind is indeed pointing out the sins of his members
24O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
see? what the Law does...it points out our need for Salvation a Savior

25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
WHY YOU STOP? See you with your clever sneaky editing MAKE UP interpretations I have to wrestle back into what PAUL actually wrote...this verse continues “So then, with my mind (where He put His Law into) I myself serve the Law of Yah...but with the flesh the law of sin.” BOOM...Paul admits being SAVED and still sinning...doing what he hates and not doing what he loves. Verse 15...it is a constant struggle to overcome to stay faithful IS WHY THE SPIRIT COMES TO GUIDE AND COMFORT...into Him His ways and NOT away from Him more like your former self or the world. Law remains NOT to save but to keep moving closer to Him...and of course not cause others to stumble for misrepresentation...with “Law aint for me”

Romans 11:28-33
[/B]
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake,
yes the rejecting jews are
but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
so a promise remains to obedient blood Israel
30 For as you were once disobedient to God,
say what? Goyim disobedient to Yah but to them was NOT the Law given...or...
yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,
hmmmm because of faith belief goyim replaced unbelieving blood Israel
31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.
yes through jealousy of a nation not of Yah but now of Yah and its LOVE Jews will wish to repent and have faith in Him...He Who abolished that enmity Jews had of goyim and made one new citizen of Israel of the two...
32 For God has [h]committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
yup all have sinned so that all might be saved...NO DISTINCTION how they were saved FAITH and now HOW they do works befitting repentance...
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
ok...so what part of that says you no longer need to keep the Sabbath? His kingdom is divided is it?

Ok next:

Collosians 2:6-23
6 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
BOOM right out of the gate...we are to do as He did...BOC follows the Head...
7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith,
there it is FAITH ESTABLISHED from roots and building up IN HIM HIS WAY...the faith He had which was not Buddha or Muslim or Mormon

as you have been taught,
hmmmm...taught you are no longer under law? Remember Paul teaching Felix...self discipline righteousness JUDGEMENT...sounds like they are understudies of some discipleship training

abounding [d]in it with thanksgiving.
well of course...knowing what was done for you BY HIM of course you will be grateful and WANT to learn His rules to His team and game...

8 Beware lest anyone [e]cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world,
hmmmm so once they had it they could LOSE IT? Interesting...and to clever talkers like “do what thou whilst” or the even more diabolical “we are no longer under law”...to the classic “just love everybody love is all you need” oh and certainly the one hit wonder “rest everyday in Jesus”...continuous hits...to the head...the Christ mind...

and not according to Christ.
in deed does faith make void the Law? NO we establish LAW HIS LAW as we pray not our will be done but Thine on earth as it is in heaven...you think “not for us baby” the arrogance

9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead
yes order harmony heirarchy Law justice mercy

[f]bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all [g]principality and power.
in HIM is what then both Jew and goyim ONE LAW as it was in the OT...ONE LAW for the saved out of Egypt both Native and Foreigner

11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands,
why does this even matter if it is NOT FOR THEM?
by putting off the body [h]of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
well obviously they are under the law despite NOT BEING GIVEN IT...
12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
so dead to former selves and reborn IN HIM...contrary to Him? Different...divided Head is it? NO Christ-minded
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
because the Law did apply to them who were NOT given it...
He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
revealed by a Law to them
14 having wiped out the [i]handwriting of requirements that was against us,
trespass the sins the wages the bill NOT the LAW...which was NOT handwritten but by the Finger of Yah
which was contrary to us.
Torah was NOT contrary to us...do this and LIVE...it was a delight remember sweet perfect...led to Salvation...need of Grace and savior
And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
can you nail stone to a cross? NO...the wages of sin were covered by His blood from His Father’s Wrath...the Law remained HalleluYah...points out further sin...until judgement day...

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a [j]festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the [k]substance is of Christ.
yup...indeed...their countrymen keeping new moons and Sabbaths considered Jewish must have been a shock to those non believing Colossians...they had their own calendar and festivals and diet...

Might I interest you in https://www.cogwriter.com/news/churc...the-holy-days/ an interesting study of the Greek rendering it:

“Let no one judge you (in X Y Z...which ARE a shadow...)BUT the Body of Christ”


18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has [l]not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
yup gnostic superstitious were prevalent even among hellenized Jews...
19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.
yup Head and Body in harmony...not divided between the Head His way and the body’s “no longer for me” rebellion...

20 [m]Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men?
clearly man’s gnostic and ritualistic...superstitious...asceticism was growing throughout the hellenized regions
23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and [n]neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.
so true...wonder what Paul was say about “oh no not for us...His Way...just for jews”


,,,once you are you revert back to keeping the law. A law that now profits you nothing.
Nothing? Is why you have the Spirit guide you through the Map...keep you from falling stumbling losing your grip of the Head...reverting back to your own vomit like a dog well that is gross and not just spiritually...once saved the Law is established implemented practiced followed...applied...you know fruits good works seperating His people into a peculiar Holy temple from joined houses of Jew and Goyim...doing works befitting repentance...because the WANT TO as He first LOVED them...yup from foreigner uncircumcised to circumcised citizens...keeping shadows which are of good things STILL TO COME...long after the cross...pray the Sabbath made for man not be broken in future times of trouble...since the world will HATE your obedience to Him...

You're arguing against scripture, not just with me.
nope...your use of them...the way you use the sword you are cutting yourself from your reward...not entering the kingdom and preventing others from doing so...NOT His way...

Galatians 3:24-26
24 Therefore the law was our [a]tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
so when in primary school your tutor taught you 2+2=4...now that you are graduated does that change to 2+2=5 or 42 or the color red? Of course not...also now that you have graduated from your tutor do you no longer use the law of addition? Absurd...same with Christ...Law tutored you and He demonstrated it...voila!!...the Way unto righteousness after faith


Galatians 3:1-9
1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you [a]that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed [b]among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so [c]many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

Surely you know the Celts from the Gauls were highly civilized and advanced pagan tribes...having customs laws and practices and language quite ancient...interesting to note is that pagan thought there gods needed appeasement and HAD TO DO in order to win favor or protection...an entirely foreign view to His people who understood He loved them already is WHY they offered thanks and tithes and were obedient because they belonged...not merit based as the pagans

So Paul realized they were returning to that manner of service practicing faith in order to gain favor...and even returning to their own ancient customs with compromises and assimilations...works of law vs by faith...pagan vs torah

Ok so:

Galatians 2:16
Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
yup...work dont save the whole OT testifies of that...and now
these pagans were learning...about HOW the Law was used...not that the Law was done away with...

What do you mean "less likely"? Either you are dead to the law or you are not.
you missed...dead to the Law is the animal killed so you dont actually have to be...but yeah you died...and not the law...go and sin no more...as now that law is not the ministry of death but IN HIM the law of liberty...neat eh? So we are dead to the Law IN HIM...but as Paul was clear and Peter too...watch out for false teachers who like you would rob one of their reward with another gospel another christ with claims we are NOT under the Law...and not regenerating us INTO less sinning Holy people...more Like Him less like our former selves...the world...even Paul was still warring with his flesh with His CHRIST MIND...those that overcome will receive the reward it says in the last book...well done good and faithful believer? No!! Good and faithful servant...one who hears and DOES the Word...

You can't have it both ways. Either you follow the law for righteousness or you do it in an effort to please God. You've claimed both. Which is it?
first you replace the wall between jew and goyim and then you divide His kingdom and now you would separate a grateful imitation’s sincerest form of flattery...of course He is pleased we obey and wish to be more like Him His Image as He made us to be...a true restoration...righteousness is actuall a by procuct of learning Mercy rather than sacrifice...to LOVE AS HE LOVED fulfills the Law...pleasing Him...and a Love JUST LIKE HIS is a jot and tittle full LOVE...nothing changed until the new heaven and the new earth where there is NO MORE SIN...as it was cast into the pit and with its wages...DEATH...but NOW restored IN THE NEW there is NO MORE SIN...thus no more need of the Law to point it out...Sabbath however remains as it was instituted prior the FALL and we all NOW IN THE NEW keep the Law naturally inner circumcised hearts and outward members...oh and not immortal but having put on immortality like a robe...still eating from the tree of life healing ALL nations not just Jews...one kingdom one Law one promise one people...


The reason you stubbornly cling to the law is that it puffs you up, to your own self-righteousness. Being saved already, it profits you nothing else.
it profited NOTHING to be saved...but NOW that spiritual law becaumes flesh in our own lives... Walk ye in it...finish the race...wow you really miss much of the Faith of Yahushua...just believe eh? and NOW WHAT? Fruits...bare fruits to good works befitting repentance to Him His way...keep your brother from stumbling...watch out for false teaching...work out your salvation with fear and trembling...correct reproof...study scripture to show yourselves approved...all scripture is Yah breathed instruction in righteousness...

Ironic when Paul wrote that to Timothy the only Scripture WAS the OT...




Collosians 2:16-23
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a [j]festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the [k]substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has [l]not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.
20 [m]Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and [n]neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

Missed again...read what Paul wrote “you died in Christ why as THOUGH you were living in the world (remember pagans earning favor) why subject yourselves according to commandments and doctrines of men...that is NOT returning to TORAH...wow



You're arguing with Paul, not me.
am I? You really think Paul claims that ALL things like coveting adultery lying stealing killing dishonoring parents idolatry blasphemy and worshipping another god is Lawful...hmmmm maybe that is why Christendom is full of it...oh and eating Sunday Ham after church before football...yup...because we are no longer under law...what a mess...


I haven't claimed anywhere, to my knowledge, that the law is done away with. Every unsaved person is still under the law. What I've said, consistently, it that we are no longer under the law.
right...ok then...so saved...what keeps us knowing we sin? In need of mercy grace repentance ...to turn back to what? Keep what...follow what...do what...what works befitting repentance...dare we steal lie etc...that grace abounds...?


You certainly aren't going to receive many converts preaching the law.
this aint a popularity contest...or a majority wins all...in fact this way is narrow for a reason...ironically historically slaves flocked to the ekklesia as they received a day off...and masters in turn received obedient faithful servants...

Teaching that they are under the law and that Christ's sacrifice can free them from it is another matter. I highly recommend that approach.
teaching others to break the law is not looked at favorable by our Master...

I thought we were dead to the law. Again, which is it? Make up your mind.
yes the subtlety is the rub...Paul taught Felix self discipline and righteousness and Judgement which scared Felix because he was NOT a believer wanting to learn how to do it...of course everybody hates a test...except the well studied and prepared...

Studying and passing the test we are dead to the failing grade...but the red marker is still there searching to see if what the Tutor taught was still retained and correctly applied...

Oh and we study NOT to pass the test but because we wish to learn more...because we already are students...not trying to become students...the Tutor reveals this...


"The kingdom of His law"? Again, which is it? Are we dead to the law or not?
ok lets look at the law...

Biblical Hebrew did not have future imperative tense but present past...

King Jimmy’s translators really struggled to make it relevent today...and came up with THOU SHALT NOT...now tell me was that an accurate prediction at mount Sinai...thou shalt not?

Hebrew actually has closer to thou not kill...It is better understood in the Hebrew as 10 words or descriptions...of WHAT?...Of Him where He is:

Thus even Young’s translations of “thou dost not”...is more accurate as it reflects what He and His family does or does not do where they live...

There is no other god where “I Am”

So thou dost not steal where “I AM”

Thou dost not lie where “I AM”

Etc...

He is attempting to restore the relationship they had before the fall when NONE of this was done...except the first five including the Sabbath...made for ALL man...before the fall...what Grace...

Law is His character...to know Him is to Love Him as He loved you...just as

Titus 1:6
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

1 John 2:
3By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments. 4If anyone says, “I know Him,” but does not keep His commandments, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone keeps His word, the love of God has been truly perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6Whoever claims to abide in Him must walk as Jesus walked.

Jude 1:4
For certain men have crept in among you unnoticed--ungodly ones who were designated long ago for condemnation. They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Please don’t deny you are under His yoke...which is easy...you are not your own or free but His...not a Hindi cow walking aimlessly in the roads...but wearing a yoke of your Master...

1 John 5:3 especially to the BOC...they have His Spirit and example and guarantee...of a promise made so long ago...HalleluYah

And finally might I interest you in this study?

http://www.fogwhistle.ca/acts/evidence.html

save you from reading more of my stuff here haha..
 
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JudgeRightly

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clefty Huckleberry

Just FYI, you're posts are getting to be pretty long. If at all possible, would you mind condensing your posts a bit? There is a 6-paragraph limit for posts on TOL. You're posts are at about 5 paragraphs or so.

Thanks :)
 
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clefty

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clefty Huckleberry

Just FYI, you're posts are getting to be pretty long. If at all possible, would you mind condensing your posts a bit? There is a 6-paragraph limit for posts on TOL. You're posts are at about 5 paragraphs or so.

Thanks :)

Awww man...that rule ain’t for me...someone else,a perfect poster, fulfilled it perfectly...I ain’t under law no more...amirite? :)

is NOT what I believe...

but

sir yes sir...grateful to be here at all...anything else?

cuz ya know...don’t wish to cause a fellow poster to stumble...
 
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