None of the text that you posted described where Paul learned of his role, which is where the discrepancy is that I mentioned.
SABBATH KEEPING
- Thread starter DougE
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None of the text that you posted described where Paul learned of his role, which is where the discrepancy is that I mentioned.
LOL sorry, I'm usually pretty terse with what I write, I raises the bar and helps me avoid the religionists. Thanks for the compliment, though, I missed that before.
The quotes from Luke 24:44-46 and Hosea 6:2 are about a missing proof text, and the source texts for the proof were already written at the time.
I mentioned the Quran because Isaiah 29:12 connects Mohammed to the network of endorsement that I'm using as a basis of interpretation. The missing proof text connects to the Quran's description of the crucifixion.
Assuming that the different audiences in the three accounts imply that there were three different events, the different audiences of the people and the priesthood get different messages:
Matthew 12
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Luke 11
30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.
It means that the Messiah wasn't the son of man of the Pharisee's version of the sign of Jonah, there was another.
The message of Nineveh was about repentance. There's also the wisdom of Solomon, but that is a whole other rabbit hole.
There's too much content in this thread for me to elaborate, here are couple of thoughts...
The quote from Hosea 4:6 is about the importance of knowledge (gnosis), which connects to the Gnostic text about the sabbath. You have to have knowledge of your sin before you can repent from it.
The Quran connects to the sealed book of Isaiah 29:12 (Mohammed is called the seal of the prophets in the Quran). There are seven seals in the book of revelation, which connects back to the sabbath being the seventh day.
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Again... stop "mentioning" and spell it out. Quote the scripture and show where the supposed problem is.
It's not hard to find from my description. Again, the discrepancy is about where Paul learned of his role.
Acts 9
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Acts 22
10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
Acts 26
15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and [from] the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
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Once again you project your flawed ideas onto the scripture. If you think that Paul's "role" was described entirely and completely on any one occasion, that is were you went off the rails.
It is apparent that Christ gave Paul an "overview" of his role when He appears to Paul on the road to Damascus. That the Acts 9 and Acts 22 account do not mention that is not a "contradiction". Again, not every account of every event needs to contain every detail of the event.
According to your flawed theory, every newspaper article about any event should be identical.
"I raises the bar" ok...but in avoiding religionists please remain lucid and transparent else you fill find yourself a following of followers following another mystic they don't understand...
ok...so why the Quran? and not Johah? and where is this going at all? about the Sabbath...you know topic of thread...
ok...
disciples got it wrong too...
the whole OT was about faith...repent...here's HOW...
not even sure you are elaborating on the content of this thread...
actually they were instructed to "repair" the "sin" themselves with whom they had offended and THEN come to sacrifice a THANK offering as it was no longer a "sin" offering as SIN offerings were for unintentional/unknown/omission sins... kinda like that "TO THE UNKNOWN" god Paul referenced on Mars hill...just to hedge the bet and prevent wrath...you can't even purge the leavening at Passover as it is MICROSCOPIC but poor jewish wives still try...sin isn't something to wash away or carry unto scapegoat head...it is an attitude...uncircumcised heart issue...
is WHY the Law...it points out sin...you wouldn't know it otherwise...Paul admitted as much with coveting...thus without Law one would have no knowledge of your sin which offended and provoked wrath...cant repent what you don't know...UNLESS it's a sin offering...BECAUSE you admit you offend without KNOWING...that is contrition...all have sinned...one is NEVER sinless...just sin LESS...
ummm..ok...again not following...
but you ignored where Paul did NOT teach another gospel but that was in the OT...repent he insisted...turn back to His way and back to Him...to both Jew and now clean goyim...a message too for the later muslim…
kinda rhymes...ha
Says the poster who quoted the wrong text in response to this question. You're simply projecting your own flawed understanding, Acts is not scripture in the sense that it has a no prophetic source, unlike what is referred to in the gospel as unqualified scripture..
Sorry, typo. Should have been "It raises the bar". The application of reason is essential in the acquisition of knowledge.
I brought up the Quran because of my basis of interpretation, i.e. endorsement by the prophets. Jonah relates to signs and repentance and the idea of different messages for different audiences.
Sabbath in Hebrew is שבת, and relates to שבע, meaning seven or oath.
Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign[אות] between me and you throughout your generations; that [ye] may know that I [am] YHWH that doth sanctify you.
Exodus 31:13
The Hebrew word אות can be pronounced as owat or oath.
The title of son of man was never an exclusive one. This ambiguity relates to the phrase "for my name's sake":
Acts 9
15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the Children of Israel.
16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
That's an oversimplification, in spades.
While gratitude is important I don't know of anything about sacrifice of thanks.
The sacrifices of Elohim [are] a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O Elohim, thou wilt not despise.
Psalms 51:19
Both YHWH and the Messiah taught perfection.
If you trace similar ideas from different prophets you can get insight about their meaning
Paul started out by teaching the gospel of repentance but later on preached his own gospel:
Galatians 1
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed
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Childish lying does not help your theory. I did NOT "quote the wrong text". I had to GUESS at what you were talking about since you kept it a secret.
You have silly ideas and an inability to communcate.
I'm not lying. You text was obviously wrong because it said nothing about Paul's role when the point related to where he learned of his role. I didn't keep it a secret, anyone who wasn't mentally impaired could have found the references to Paul's role in the chapters that I gave you.
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It's not hard to understand your problem.
https://theologyonline.com/forum/po...2754673-sabbath-keeping?p=2755270#post2755270
Stop pretending that you've got a point to make.
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I made one. You're just not bright enough to understand it.
happens...I do too...hope to be as ironic as that one"
even our Master Teacher taught in parables and needed further clarification...but yes He spoke clearly in a language the common people understood...even the kids...lest ye become like one of these...
ok why? Scripture interprets scripture...and when that was written that was OT scripture...and not of personal interpretation...
ok now you clarify and yes of course hearers hear different things...is why scripture and not personal interpretation...or outside sources like Quran should be a basis
so we have signs 3 days? and repentance last hope for a lost generation
among other things yes...and a perpetual one with His people...those that obey Him...His Way not some outside tradition...and overcome...
right...Yah does sanctify first the Sabbath at creation and then any of those that seek to keep it Holy...your generations He was addressing was a mixed multitude of both Native and Foreigner...is WHY the Sabbath alone of all commandments includes the Stranger
yes no false swears or as Yahushua affirmed best not to swear at all...
true...and?
[quote This ambiguity relates to the phrase "for my name's sake":[/quote] ambiguity?...what where?...not for one understanding the OT its ENTIRE intend was exactly that...ALL to the sake of Yah's name...not the name man wishes to make for himself since the tower of Babel...
and now yet another name YAHushua was included...an just as in the OT...a blessing TO THE GENTILES...you know the Strangers in the Sabbath commandment...house of prayer for ALL nations...
someone has to do it...LOL...it's accurate...the whole OT for His name's sake...repent...here's HOW...oh and WHY...and well WHEN...the festivals including Sabbath...the pole setter in the race around the clock...of course the OT failed as it only was a sign...as Paul put it shadows which ARE pointing to better things to come...STILL TO COME...even after the DBR and ascension of Yahushua...and thus now we have a TRUE High Priest...to help us with our HOW to repent and WHY to repent and WHICH and WHEN to do works fitting that repentance...
New Attempt...contract...covenant...dealing with sin...SAME SIN as it is the SAME LAW...but now put into the hearts and minds of not just blood jews but INNER Jews...those not just circumcised outwardly but CUT in their hearts...by His LAW...not new Law or Son's updated new and improved Law...but the same as He is ONE with the Father...odd we are His brother...if we keep the commandments...is why Heb 4:9 steals a Hebrew word to state in greek what still binds His people...a Sabbatismos...
is why Scripture is useful...you know when that was written to Timothy ONLY the OT was available...
Here is a quick refresher:
https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/thank-offering/
Thank offerings did not deal with sin...or repentance...but like the Passover His WRATH passed over the sin full obedient...thank offerings continue that gratitude for that GRACE...thanks for passing us over...allowing us to live and love others as you do us...on earth as it is in heaven...sacrifices of thanks are aslo a sign of obedience of His people...and now offered with our lips...
yes repentance to turn from your rebellion and become an "inner Jew...with circumcised heart" as Paul said. We die daily to ourselves and rise IN HIM...where there are no more Jews or goyim but full citizens of Israel...
"Mercy rather than Sacrifice" Yahushua repeated to the Pharisees...the whole temple and sacrifices was PLAN B...merely a sign to what He wanted PLAN A...direct restoration of relationship...mercy is LOVE...to serve...be humble...forgive as you are forgiven...and thus fulfill the Law...go and sin no more...according to His still IMMUTABLE Law
of course and because in order to live where I AM we HAVE TO BE HOLY AND PURE...we must be restored to how it was in EDEN...you know where HE was and His Sabbath...which was spared the curse of all things created...time was spared...
who of us with sin could walk on HOLY GROUND up to the throne? SIN had to be DESTROYED...so He had a plan...
again...the entire OT was HOW...and WHY...and WHEN...to be set aside, sanctified and be made Holy...as the Sabbath is Holy...
Yes just like in sports...I teach tennis and its rules fully expecting them NEVER to be broken...and for my students to serve an ACE every single time...and I encourage them that some day they will...that is the Spirit...but well guess what...
and as with Israel not even Sabbath or circumcision or any of the rules perfected them...and YET..."do what they teach from Moses seat" remains Yahushua's instruction...If you love Me...do this and live...He confirmed...
what that Sabbath is a sign and seal...well sure...and I don't need the Quran as well sorry...they are NOT His people...as they do not follow Him HIS WAY...close but the fruits are still different...even in he Law of biology a grafted branch must be in the same genome/family as the trunk...they are close with diet etc but still NOT Sabbath keeping...tragically believing lying Jews which claim it is ONLY for them...and not what the great prophet said "made for man"...not just Jews...but goyim too...
only if you believe Paul was teaching as the lying slandering Jews claimed of poor Stephen that he taught that "Yahushua changed the customs Moses delivered to us" Acts 6:14...but LUKE was clear in verse 13 that these were false witnesses...to stir up the people...
Paul multiple times at his trial denied doing so and did NOT teach "Yahushua changed the customs of Moses" is why he was spared...
do you really think that if Paul taught the Sabbath was done away with and Jews could finally eat cats bats rats and wombats that Pharisees would defend him in the Sanhedrin? Act 23:9...LOL
Sorry my mystical friend...please do NOT believe the Jewish myths and let fancy words steal your reward...Paul did NOT teach another gospel...nor did Peter...keeping kosher as well...
Both merely restored the OT Promise to the gentiles teaching that in Yahushua neither Jew or goyim but a new man joined from the both...as citizen of the commonwealth of Israel...grafted into adopted into...and in HIM the enmity was abolished between Jew and goyim...all those rules Jews make and made to claim Sabbath is just for them were by Him IN HIM done away with...
and as Isaiah says "from New Moon to New Moon Sabbath to Sabbath ALL flesh will come and worship"...restored to live where "I AM" is...HalleluYah
Huckleberry
New member
Sorry for the late response.
As to the original point of what exactly the "sabbath" refers to in Colossians 2:26, every original greek translation I can find shows it to be σαββάτων (sabbatōn), which are the weekly sabbaths.
This letter was to gentiles free from the law by the sacrifice of Christ and thus not to be judged by those still under the law.
And yet Paul taught the gentile converts that they were not under the law. Stephen, on the other hand, preached to those under the law.
Again, to those under the law.
Paul was teaching that the Body of Christ (those not under the law) should not allow themselves to be judged under the law.
Indeed it was, by those still under the law.
Again, the "are" in Colossians 2:16 references the sabbath keeping of those still under the law. Namely everyone being ministered to by every other apostle.
As to the original point of what exactly the "sabbath" refers to in Colossians 2:26, every original greek translation I can find shows it to be σαββάτων (sabbatōn), which are the weekly sabbaths.
You posted the common element about Paul seeing the light when the real issue was the different accounts of what he was told about his role.
It's obvious that you're a liar.
The point is that Paul made up his story in Acts 26 about being appointed on the road to Damascus as minister and a witness when his actual role was to bear the name and to suffer.
And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him,Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing* a voice, but seeing no man.
And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
Acts 9:6-8
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the Children of Israel.
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
Acts 9:15-16
And so those two verses are exclusive to each other? Because I see no indication of such.
In fact, I see in scripture that Paul was, in fact, a minister, a witness, and that he bore the name of Christ and did indeed suffer.
So what's the problem?
Re: "I brought up the Quran because of my basis of interpretation, i.e. endorsement by the prophets."
And you had already known about those who transgressed among you concerning the sabbath, and We said to them, "Be apes, despised."
Quran 2:65
Because if your basis for interpretation isn't sound you end up with confirmation bias.
No, people interpret scripture. Scripture is incapable of applying reason.
In the context of the Bible the term scripture was used to refer to general writings as well as the writings of the prophets.
Interpretations vary. Doctrinal interpretations can lead to a stiffnecked view of the world.
Hearers hear different things when they are told different things. The people weren't told about the three days and nights in the tomb.
... like non-canonical texts? There's no common Christian canon.
... and wisdom.
Sharia means the way. The Quran endorses Isa(Jesus) as the Messiah.
And you had already known about those who transgressed among you concerning the sabbath, and We said to them, "Be apes, despised."
Quran 2:65
He was talking about ineffective oaths, not oaths sworn by YHWH.
If they were consistent with each other then you should be able to identify where Paul learned what his role was.
Acts 9
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Acts 22
10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
Acts 26
15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and [from] the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
You're leaving out the part relating to the contradiction, i.e. whether or not Paul was appointed as a minister and witness.
no problem...suspense building...
awww man...you MAD? Odd that Paul has them reconciled in a body...I guess not truly assimilated to do as that body did...but encased in a special VIP cocoon of "law not for us"...but he continues Col 1:21 "And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard." Odd to that Paul wishes to make sure they are circumcised. 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ. WHY? I mean why even bother if they are to be a separate people...having differing works of repentance...
Peter affirms Acts 15:7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: "Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith." You gonna have me believe the Holy Spirit would NOT see TWO groups if one group ate cats bats rats and wombats and quit Sabbatismosing? and the other did NOT? I think even humans could see a distinction between those two groups...funny how Yahushua expected we understand that an unclean heart allow entrance of unclean foods vs. clean heart allows only clean foods...so here we have Peter talking about purified hearts and Paul talking about reconciling into ONE body two groups to be HOLY and BLAMELESS in His Sight...a pagan would judge them separate if they did not behave the same...but more on that later I am sure...
you keep saying...like programming or something...
ummm...no...in fact your "Jesus changed the customs Moses gave to us" you know Israel at Sinai is EXACTLY what slandering Jews claimed Stephen was teaching...except Luke, as mentioned, called it a FALSE WITNESS as Stephen was NOT teaching Jesus changed anything for anybody...
NOT SO FAST buddy...Acts 15 was exactly about gentiles crowding synagogues to hear Moses preached every Sabbath as James concluded it should be...the 4 things immediately expected were already expected of goyim in the OT...and merely to establish social manners make clear what clean and unclean was...you really think Greeks were so uncouth and ill mannered they insisted on bringing Ham for Synagogue pot lucks? Of course not...they had to learn that even a lamb strangled or full of blood or offered to an image WAS MADE UNCLEAN...please don't tell me you think they released the goyim from NOT coveting or NOT stealing or NOT killing or NOT lying...oh wait! most of Christendom does exactly that...hmmmm...LOL
Of course gentiles crowding into synagogues every Sabbath to hear Moses preached as James concluded were expected to behave and keep the other laws...just like in the OT when once saved a mixed multitude of Native and FOREIGNERS were finally given a Law...for His people...because they were His people they were to keep His Sabbath Holy...Remember...and to the stranger in your gates...ONE LAW for Native and believing goyim alike...NO DISTINCTION...
close...let no one judge you in KEEPING the New Moons AND sabbaths...I mean these goyim had their own calendar...of course their countrymen would be asking "but that is sooo Jewish" they still do...and for about 4 centuries up until past Constantine this small group was considered a superstitious Jewish cult...by the Romans...LOL...why would Romans do that if nothing made the body of Christ look Jewish? Paul affirms this sect known as "the Way" was AS he worshipped according to the fathers..."However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets" Acts 24:14 no distinction between those joined in "the Way" both Jew and Gentile...
ok...so you an American citizen? You are under the constitution and feel it when you violate it and it is enforced...you are under the traffic law but mostly when you have to pay the ticket for forgetting that you were under the traffic law...just like you sitting there reading this...you are UNDER the Law of gravity...ESPECIALLY when you feel it enforced because you violated it...like when you hit the floor in disbelief that Sabbath is STILL for His BODY of which He is the Head...odd body if the Head has the body NOT do something it does...LOL..
even biological law demands the grafted branch be in the same genius/family as the trunk to produce fruit at all...MORE similar not LESS...and yet here you and yours are claiming you don't need to produce fruit LIKE the trunk...or at all...LOL
or are you above the law...like most kids have been seduced to feel...do what you want...government grace will clean up the damage and keep paying you...politicians too think themselves above the law because we forget to remind them they are NOT...odd grace apathy...
so by under the law you mean Romans 6:14..."For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."
Sin does NOT have dominion over us...we have a new Master...Sin does not dominate us when we fail...we now have Grace...BECAUSE WE FAIL the still binding Law...and are no longer going to suffer sins eternal consequence...death...unconsciousness...void...as if we were never conceived...in Him we have life as if we were REBORN...oh wait is THAT why we WANT to keep His law?
Law is an owner's manual to follow and NOT in order to earn the car but because it already is ours...so we WANT TO keep it running and maximize our use of it...
Law is a description of what life is like where "I AM" is preparing for us...you know like before the FALL...no sin to point to...and yet the Sabbath...what grace...given to ALL creation before it was even needed...everything else was cursed...the animals, the humans, the ground...but NOT time...is why Sabbatismos remains you know for His people...living with Him...like Isaiah said New Moon to New Moon Sabbath to Sabbath ALL flesh will worship at His house of prayer for ALL people...neat eh?
is why Paul in the very next verse continues to the Romans 6:15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace? Absolutely not!
echoing what he told these believing goyim in chapter 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Which Law? The Son's NEW IMPROVED NOT FOR MY BODY Law or His PERFECT law as David called it...
why you make His kingdom an apartheid state? two classes of citizens those that do and those that don't? A house divided can not stand...no distinction remember? the wall between Jew and goyim destroyed...why you believe lying and slandering Jews who claim it was taught "Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered"...don't believe Jewish fables Titus urged...
the New Covenant has His Law not a New Law or His Son's "abridged edited revised updated for goyim" Law put into the circumcised Heart the inner Jew...of His people...His WAY...cuz that is what it is like where "I AM"...
ok now we just got you to have faith that you are His people Israel...like it was in the OT...ONE law for both native and foreigner...as specified in the Sabbath commandment a perpetual sign of His obedient people...
remember Matt 24:20 when Yahushua instructed prayers be said that in the future times of trouble NOT that they be saved or RAPTURED...NOT that the Temple be spared...but that the SABBATH would be KEPT...because "getting out of Dodge" is not really a Sabbath ya dig? Oh and winters...Yahushua also expected winter times to continue long after His DBR and ascension...
now AD 70 was a time of trouble but many scholars insist Matt 24 also was about end of the world time of trouble...you know until when the jots and tittles will remain? Think not...He came to destroy...and changing or altering or giving two sets to two diverse peoples is exactly that...
as in the Sabbath commandment itself makes clear it is for Israel both native and stranger with in thy gates...Yahushua affirms it was made for MAN...not just Jews despite their lying false witnessing to monopolize Sabbath...it remains for His people Heb 4:9 no distinctions...
I mean what an odd body NOT doing what its Head does...