THE LORDS DAY CONTROVERSY?

[3rdAngel]

You create your own (SDA) interpretation of the text and claim it's the truth... It's not.

It's always entertaining when someone uses the Bible and then claims that THEIR version of the story is Biblical.

There is nothing "Biblical" about your twisted version of Rev 1:10.

P.S. The body of Christ has no special days and no sabbaths. You're "controversy" is only between those that don't know what Paul teaches.

Not really dear friend. If that were true you should be able to address all the scriptures and posts that prove why your in error by disregarding word meanings, context and subject matter application to REVELATION 1:9-14, that prove why you are in error, instead of making false claims you cannot prove. Let me know when you have some scripture to share and you want to have a discussion. Until then we will have to agree to disagree. For me only Gods Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4, ignoring it does not make it disappear.

 

[Right Divider]

Not really dear friend. If that were true you should be able to address all the scriptures and posts that prove why your in error by disregarding word meanings, context and subject matter application to REVELATION 1:9-14, that prove why you are in error, instead of making false claims you cannot prove. Let me know when you have some scripture to share and you want to have a discussion. Until then we will have to agree to disagree. For me only Gods Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4, ignoring it does not make it disappear.

Why are you so hot to argue for a weekly sabbath when the body of Christ has no special days?

Col 2:16-17 KJV Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: (17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Your "use of scripture" is abuse of scripture.

 

[3rdAngel]

Why are you so hot to argue for a weekly sabbath when the body of Christ has no special days? Your "use of scripture" is abuse of scripture.

Nonsense. I have only told you the truth and provided scripture which is God's Word not my words but you do not believe them. It is you who abuse scripture by denying the very words of God that disagrees with your words that are not God's Word as shown above already. COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 is in reference to the "shadow sabbaths in the feast days and new moons" not God's 4th commandment *EXODUS 20:8-11 which is one of God's 10 commandments that define what sin is in the new covenant *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11.

 

[Right Divider]

Nonsense. I have only told you the truth and provided scripture which is God's Word not my words but you do not believe them. It is you who abuse scripture by denying the very words of God that disagrees with your words that are not God's Word as shown above already. COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 is in reference to the "shadow sabbaths in the feast days and new moons" not God's 4th commandment *EXODUS 20:8-11 which is one of God's 10 commandments that define what sin is in the new covenant *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11.

Why are you so hot to argue for a weekly sabbath when the body of Christ has no special days?

Col 2:16-17 KJV Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: (17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

shadow sabbaths

:rotfl:

 

[3rdAngel]

Why are you so hot to argue for a weekly sabbath when the body of Christ has no special days?

Your just repeating yourself again, as posted earlier COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 is in reference to the "shadow sabbaths in the feast days and new moons" not God's 4th commandment *EXODUS 20:8-11 which is one of God's 10 commandments that gives us the knowledge of what sin is in the new covenant *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 which if we knowingly break any one of them when we have been given a knowledge of the truth stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11 *ACTS 17:30-31. Those who continue in known unreopentant sin after they have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word will not enter into God's kingdom because they reject the gift of Gods dear sonm and count the blood of the covenant an unholy think and do dispite to the Spirit of grace * HEBREWS 10:26-31; ROMANS 6:23. That is why dear RT.

 

[Right Divider]

Your just repeating yourself again, as posted earlier COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 is in reference to the "shadow sabbaths in the feast days and new moons" not God's 4th commandment *EXODUS 20:8-11 which is one of God's 10 commandments that gives us the knowledge of what sin is in the new covenant *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 which if we knowingly break any one of them when we have been given a knowledge of the truth stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11 *ACTS 17:30-31. Those who continue in known unreopentant sin after they have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word will not enter into God's kingdom because they reject the gift of Gods dear sonm and count the blood of the covenant an unholy think and do dispite to the Spirit of grace * HEBREWS 10:26-31; ROMANS 6:23. That is why dear RT.

Colossians 2:16-17 is about ALL sabbaths.

Paul clearly distingished between new moons and sabbaths.

Col 2:16-17 KJV Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: (17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Paul also says that we cannot be judged "in respect of an holyday", and yet you want to judge others just that way.

Your false doctrines drive your "understanding" of the Bible instead of the other way around.

 

[Lon]

Your response here...



Hi Lon, nice to see you again.

Not really dear friend. Your mixing up the yearly cycle with the weekly cycle.

No. When the Julian calendar went to Gregorian YOU lost 10 days. Sorry, It is simple math. They SKIPPED ten days. What it means? You are no longer able,capable of following a Sabbath as any specific day. FACT. You don't GET to assert otherwise. Are Seventh Day Adventists only people who cannot do math properly? Okay, find people who cannot do mathematics and dupe them. Does that sound holy or above board to you? Does it sound like it champions the Savior? :think: You've really got to do some serious introspectiion, it is wrong to pass along a lie, even if you yourself are duped by it. This is a lie, specifically because it is very poor math.

The weekly cycle is the same as it always has been and it is unbroken as proven in the first post above.

Look, whether you do this on purpose, or because you aren't good at math, continuing a lie, is wrong, and evil if done on purpose. Such CANNOT honor our Lord Jesus Christ :nono: It CAN'T. Its a lie. 10 days, Don't be that person. It is wrong to pass along a lie, false information.

Taking 10 days off a year does not change the weekly cycle of every seven days

. Show me. Show me where 10 days 'can possibly' be shoved into a week. It cannot be done. The loss of ten days forced the Sabbath day, whatever that was, to jump. Does the Pope have godly authority to make 10 days become 7? He did, but from God? For observation of a sacred day? The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. ANY attempt to make man 'for the Sabbath' is bondage. Israel was bound to it. For us, 'rest' is in Christ. Galatians 1 warns STRONGLY against Judaizing Judaizers. I'm sorry, the Bible tells me to strongly warned about those pushing Judaism. Whether you know it or not, you are Judaizing, worse? Against good mathematics. Its an insult upon and insult.

Seems to me your just seeking a way to deny the scriptures.

No dice. You don't even seem to realize the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Worse? If you cannot do basic math, I cannot trust you to do scriptures well either. Show your scriptures, don't mindlessly assert here. "...deny the scriptures..." without even mentioning the scriptures yourself here? No dice. You are asserting and compensating for something.
Hebrews 4:9There remains, then, a Sabbath rest for the people of God. 10For whoever enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following the same pattern of disobedience.
Acts 15:7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. ⁸ God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. ⁹ He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. ¹⁰ Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? ¹¹ No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

¹⁹ “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. ²⁰ Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.

Mark 2:27 Then Jesus declared, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Now, dear Ang, how well do you know your bible? Read this: Romans 14:5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’” 12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.

You and I WILL stand before God for our assertions. Does your's make mathematical sense? :nono: Does it transgress this command (yes it does).

You are free to believe as you wish. We all answer only to God come judgement day. The words of God we accept or reject are a blessing or a curse. They are a blessing to all those who believe and receive them with an open heart because they love God and want to have a closer walk with him or a curse to those who reject them as they are Gods Word and those who reject God's Word when they have been given a knowledge of the truth in order to continue in sin reject God (see HEBREWS 10:26-39).

Nope, that has a backhanded slap. "You can go your own way, but you'll be cursed for it." lain: You are slave-master with a message of slavery to a really mathematically bad idea. You just told me that I'm NOT really free to believe as I wish lain:

May you receive God's Word and be blessed. Ignoring them do not make them disappear. They become our judge come judgement day *JOHN 12:47-48

Simply read our Lord God, again:

Romans 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.

There was nothing wrong with the Sabbath or any other command to Israel in the Old Testament BUT

Hebrews 8:8b Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will establish a new covenant...
Hebrews 8:10 I will put my laws into their minds,
and write them on their hearts,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
11
And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor
and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
for they shall all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12
For I will be merciful toward their iniquities,
and I will remember their sins no more.”1 They shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.

If you are under an old covenant with external (laws, rules) motivators, it is worse than one that teaches internally with Christ living in you.

Hebrews 8:¹³ In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

It is already passed away at this time, ang. The new is FAR better than the old which is ALREADY passed away. Scripture says so. Even a Seventh Day Adventist Jew must succumb to the new covenant, Jesus in you, the hope of Glory. Colossians 1:27 Don't just know the Jewish parts, Ang, know all of the Bible. Don't let anyone cloud your thinking from the whole of it.

WE will stand before the judgement seat. Make sure you aren't the one duped before it happens, even if ignorant, it is a problem and we are accountable. The math, I know for fact, is wrong. I will stand before Him accountable for basic math. -Lon

 

[Gary K]

No. When the Julian calendar went to Gregorian YOU lost 10 days. Sorry, It is simple math. They SKIPPED ten days. What it means? You are no longer able,capable of following a Sabbath as any specific day. FACT. You don't GET to assert otherwise. Are Seventh Day Adventists only people who cannot do math properly? Okay, find people who cannot do mathematics and dupe them. Does that sound holy or above board to you? Does it sound like it champions the Savior? :think: You've really got to do some serious introspectiion, it is wrong to pass along a lie, even if you yourself are duped by it. This is a lie, specifically because it is very poor math.


Look, whether you do this on purpose, or because you aren't good at math, continuing a lie, is wrong, and evil if done on purpose. Such CANNOT honor our Lord Jesus Christ :nono: It CAN'T. Its a lie. 10 days, Don't be that person. It is wrong to pass along a lie, false information.

. Show me. Show me where 10 days 'can possibly' be shoved into a week. It cannot be done. The loss of ten days forced the Sabbath day, whatever that was, to jump. Does the Pope have godly authority to make 10 days become 7? He did, but from God? For observation of a sacred day? The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. ANY attempt to make man 'for the Sabbath' is bondage. Israel was bound to it. For us, 'rest' is in Christ. Galatians 1 warns STRONGLY against Judaizing Judaizers. I'm sorry, the Bible tells me to strongly warned about those pushing Judaism. Whether you know it or not, you are Judaizing, worse? Against good mathematics. Its an insult upon and insult.


No dice. You don't even seem to realize the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Worse? If you cannot do basic math, I cannot trust you to do scriptures well either. Show your scriptures, don't mindlessly assert here. "...deny the scriptures..." without even mentioning the scriptures yourself here? No dice. You are asserting and compensating for something.
Hebrews 4:9There remains, then, a Sabbath rest for the people of God. 10For whoever enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following the same pattern of disobedience.
Acts 15:7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. ⁸ God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. ⁹ He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. ¹⁰ Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? ¹¹ No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

¹⁹ “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. ²⁰ Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.

Mark 2:27 Then Jesus declared, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Now, dear Ang, how well do you know your bible? Read this: Romans 14:5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’” 12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.

You and I WILL stand before God for our assertions. Does your's make mathematical sense? :nono: Does it transgress this command (yes it does).


Nope, that has a backhanded slap. "You can go your own way, but you'll be cursed for it." lain: You are slave-master with a message of slavery to a really mathematically bad idea. You just told me that I'm NOT really free to believe as I wish lain:

Simply read our Lord God, again:

Romans 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.

There was nothing wrong with the Sabbath or any other command to Israel in the Old Testament BUT

Hebrews 8:8b Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will establish a new covenant...
Hebrews 8:10 I will put my laws into their minds,
and write them on their hearts,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
11
And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor
and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
for they shall all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12
For I will be merciful toward their iniquities,
and I will remember their sins no more.”1 They shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.

If you are under an old covenant with external (laws, rules) motivators, it is worse than one that teaches internally with Christ living in you.

Hebrews 8:¹³ In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

It is already passed away at this time, ang. The new is FAR better than the old which is ALREADY passed away. Scripture says so. Even a Seventh Day Adventist Jew must succumb to the new covenant, Jesus in you, the hope of Glory. Colossians 1:27 Don't just know the Jewish parts, Ang, know all of the Bible. Don't let anyone cloud your thinking from the whole of it.

WE will stand before the judgement seat. Make sure you aren't the one duped before it happens, even if ignorant, it is a problem and we are accountable. The math, I know for fact, is wrong. I will stand before Him accountable for basic math. -Lon

That's fallacious reasoning Lon. Here is a link that shows the weekly cycle when the US adopted the new calendar. https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar...an-switch.html

Notice that the weekly cycle remained exactly the same. Wednesday September 2, 1752 was followed by Thursday September 14,1752. Nothing in the weekly cycle changed. The week still started on Sunday and ended on Saturday with no interruptions in the days of the week. Only the dates changed.

Edit: According to your reasoning every leap year changes the weekly cycle of Sunday through Saturday, and we know that logic is fatally flawed.

 

[3rdAngel]

Colossians 2:16-17 is about ALL sabbaths.

Paul clearly distingished between new moons and sabbaths.



Paul also says that we cannot be judged "in respect of an holyday", and yet you want to judge others just that way.

Your false doctrines drive your "understanding" of the Bible instead of the other way around.

Your confused again Colossians 2 does not say ALL sabbaths. It is talking about the sabbaths in connection with the feast days and new moons. Pehaps this might be a good idea to for another thread since there you are confsued about this. You do know there are many sabbaths in the old testament right that were not God's 4th commandment but were shadow sabbaths pointing to Jesus and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant? God's 4th commandment cannot be a shadow as it points backwards to the "finished work" of creation by starting off by saying "REMEMBER" *EXODUS 20:8. These are different to the ceremonial "shadow sabbaths" linked to the feast days that can fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle. These all point to Jesus and God's plan of salvation for mankind in the new covenant.

Some examples of the "shadow sabbaths" that can fall on any day of the week here...

1. The Sabbaths of the Feast of unleavened bread (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:6-8
2. The Sabbath on the annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:27-32
3. The Sabbath on the annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:24-25?
4. The Sabbath on the Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:34-36
5. Feast of first fruits (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:39
6. The sabbaths (sabbaton plural) of holy convocations from the annual feast days *LEVITICUS 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that can fall on any days of the week
7. The Sabbath of the land (7 year single cycle) *LEVITICUS 25:2
8. The Sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths *LEVITICUS 25:9-54


Do you know what old testament scriptures Paul in quoting from in reference to Colossians 2:16-17? I think this may be a good topic for a new thread. Which I may make next.


Hope this helps.

 

[3rdAngel]

That's fallacious reasoning Lon. Here is a link that shows the weekly cycle when the US adopted the new calendar. https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar...an-switch.html

Notice that the weekly cycle remained exactly the same. Wednesday September 2, 1752 was followed by Thursday September 14,1752. Nothing in the weekly cycle changed. The week still started on Sunday and ended on Saturday with no interruptions in the days of the week. Only the dates changed.

Edit: According to your reasoning every leap year changes the weekly cycle of Sunday through Saturday, and we know that logic is fatally flawed.

Thankyou. Good post Fred. I tried to show Lon earlier that there was no change in the weekly cycle in post # 21 linked. This post shows that when the Julian calender changed to the Gregorian calander in 1582 the days lost from the yearly calander did not disrupt the seven day weekly cycle. The proof is that Thursday October 4 on the Julian calander was followed by Friday October 15 on the new Gregorian calander which keeps the continous weekly cycle in tact. I also posted as further hard evidence the US NAVAL REPORT proving that there was no change to the weekly cycle. He still does not believe it. God figure. Anyhow thanks for sharing.

God bless

 

[Right Divider]

Your confused again Colossians 2 does not say ALL sabbaths. It is talking about the sabbaths in connection with the feast days and new moons. Pehaps this might be a good idea to for another thread since there you are confsued about this. You do know there are many sabbaths in the old testament right that were not God's 4th commandment but were shadow sabbaths pointing to Jesus and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant? God's 4th commandment cannot be a shadow as it points backwards to the "finished work" of creation by starting off by saying "REMEMBER" *EXODUS 20:8. These are different to the ceremonial "shadow sabbaths" linked to the feast days that can fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle. These all point to Jesus and God's plan of salvation for mankind in the new covenant.

Some examples of the "shadow sabbaths" that can fall on any day of the week here...

1. The Sabbaths of the Feast of unleavened bread (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:6-8
2. The Sabbath on the annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:27-32
3. The Sabbath on the annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:24-25?
4. The Sabbath on the Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:34-36
5. Feast of first fruits (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:39
6. The sabbaths (sabbaton plural) of holy convocations from the annual feast days *LEVITICUS 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that can fall on any days of the week
7. The Sabbath of the land (7 year single cycle) *LEVITICUS 25:2
8. The Sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths *LEVITICUS 25:9-54

Do you know what old testament scriptures Paul in quoting from in reference to Colossians 2:16-17? I think this may be a good topic for a new thread. Which I may make next.

Hope this helps.

You are a scripture twister.

Col 2:16 is clearly talking about ALL of the religiously required days that were given to the people of Israel.

Of course Paul is talking about ALL sabbaths days. "The sabbaths days" is just that. There is no limit nor qualification that he places on that verse.

ALL of those things that Paul mentions are shadows of things to come for Israel, BUT the body is of Christ.

Hope this helps.

 

[3rdAngel]

No. When the Julian calendar went to Gregorian YOU lost 10 days. Sorry, It is simple math. They SKIPPED ten days. What it means? You are no longer able,capable of following a Sabbath as any specific day. FACT.

Goodness, you really are confused here dear friend. I suggest you do some more reading on the subject matter before posting your simply wrong or your confused, being dishonest or not good at math. I do not know which one. Pehaps it may help if I ask a simple question.

How can 10 days off a yearly calander cycle effect a seven day weekly when the new calander continues from the old calander on the very next day of the week?

You were already shown in post # 21 linked that when the Julian calender changed to the Gregorian calander in 1582 the days lost from the yearly calander did not disrupt the seven day weekly cycle. The proof is that Thursday October 4 on the Julian calander was followed by Friday October 15 on the new Gregorian calander which keeps the continous weekly cycle in tact. I also posted as further hard evidence the US NAVAL REPORT proving that there was no change to the weekly cycle. What you do not understand about this is beyond me. I suggest you do some more research. Your confused simpy wrong. Thanks for sharing your thoughts but we will agree to disagree. Do you have anything else to share in relation to scripture and the OP?

 

[Lon]

He still does not believe it. God figure. Anyhow thanks for sharing.
God bless

:doh:

That's fallacious reasoning Lon. Here is a link that shows the weekly cycle when the US adopted the new calendar. https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar...an-switch.html

Notice that the weekly cycle remained exactly the same. Wednesday September 2, 1752 was followed by Thursday September 14,1752. Nothing in the weekly cycle changed. The week still started on Sunday and ended on Saturday with no interruptions in the days of the week. Only the dates changed.

Edit: According to your reasoning every leap year changes the weekly cycle of Sunday through Saturday, and we know that logic is fatally flawed.

:doh: You too? Look, just because someone said 'Saturday is Friday' didn't account for 10 days. It means, literally, that ten days were lost in one calendar. When the switch happened, there was absolutely NO reclamation of those ten days. Let me ask you: Was your birthday on the same day this year as last year? No? Did you, in fact, know that the Gregorian calendar is going to have to be adjusted eventually? It does not account for minutes lost. Can YOU do math? The loss of ten days required that there was a skip. How about leap year? Let me put it his way: Saturday this year, is on a different day than Saturday last year, on the calendar because 7 days do not add up to 365 (nor 366). Here is the thing, the DAY the Jews and everybody converted to Gregorian, the mandate of any theoretical Sabbath was ruined. Forever. Fact. The Pope skipped 'ten' days and randomly said 'Friday.' "But it was Friday." :nono: if you added 10 days, it'd have been Monday, by the calendar. Simply a succession of 7 days, perpetually? Sort of, but you'd not be able to say it was 'Saturday' just a random day that changed every year because 365/7=52.14 You'd have to reboot every year to have the same day be the same exact one as last year. Which day is the Sabbath? "Saturday?" :nono: Not if you were a Jew, because they did it differently and the calendars never synched. What did you think happened BEFORE all calendars synched? That's right! Their Sabbath and the Julian "Saturday (named after the god Saturn) weren't the same day (except coincidentally once in a great while)! :lightbulb: Try again. Nobody can damage basic mathematics. If you are not advocating that the pagan "Saturday" is the "Holy Day of God, Sabbath" then it doesn't matter, you are just not good at math and its okay. If you are a Sabbath thumper, there are huge problems: Spiritually, mathematically, and practically. So if you've no horse in this race, you are welcome for the correction. If you are a Sabbath thumper, welcome to clearer thinking. -Lon

 

[Lon]

Goodness, you really are confused here dear friend.

Ignorant and indoctrinated assertion. YOU must really learn to think instead of passing mindless mantras from confused pastors. This isn't thinking, nor is it good Bible. It is indoctrination (my assertion, but I know my Bible).

I suggest you do some more reading on the subject matter before posting your simply wrong or your confused, being dishonest or not good at math. I do not know which one. Pehaps it may help if I ask a simple question.

Any degrees? Just laymen posturing on your part? How audacious are you? You just flit about from website to website hocking your wares, or do you have anything to back up your education? It is lacking.

How can 10 days off a yearly calander (calendar) cycle effect a seven day weekly when the new calander continues from the old calander on the very next day of the week?

As I told Freeloader above, the Gregorian and Julian calendar (among others) all didn't have the same 7 days. They were all different because of different reckonings of number of days in the calendar year that weren't the same. Hebrews would adjust. Maybe it doesn't make a difference: Do you insist 'Saturday' is the only Sabbath? If not, no worries, you can be convinced in your own mind that you need to keep a holy day, but it is not the pagan "Satur"day named after some other god.

You were already shown in post # 21 linked that when the Julian calender changed to the Gregorian calander in 1582 the days lost from the yearly calander did not disrupt the seven day weekly cycle. The proof is that Thursday October 4 on the Julian calander was followed by Friday October 15 on the new Gregorian calander which keeps the continous weekly cycle in tact. I also posted as further hard evidence the US NAVAL REPORT proving that there was no change to the weekly cycle. What you do not understand about this is beyond me. I suggest you do some more research. Your confused simpy wrong. Thanks for sharing your thoughts but we will agree to disagree. Do you have anything else to share in relation to scripture and the OP?

Again, if you read my response to freeloader, it is wrong. The Gregorian days changed so that every single year (like our birthdays) the Gregorian "Saturday" was always a different day year to year, than the Jew's Sabbath day. It means, they were celebrating Sabbath, Fridays on year, and Wednesdays another. The two never synched. (synchronized). When the switch happened, the Sabbath HAD to change for Jews that year from the day they were celebrating, 'if' it was necessary for it to be on 'Saturday.'

Ask any math teacher you know of, to explain this to both of you. Any math professor can tell you the problem. If a math professor/teacher is a Seventh Day Adventist, they are only one as conscientious objectors OR they have never thought this through very well. -Lon

 

[Lon]

Your (you're) confused again Colossians 2 does not say ALL sabbaths. It is talking about the sabbaths (Sabbath) in connection with the feast days and new moons. Pehaps (perhaps) this might be a good idea to for another thread since there you are confsued (confused) about this. You do know there are many sabbaths (Sabbaths) in the old testament(Old Testament) right that were not God's 4th commandment but were shadow sabbaths pointing to Jesus and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant? God's 4th commandment cannot be a shadow as it points backwards to the "finished work" of creation by starting off by saying "REMEMBER" *EXODUS 20:8. These are different to the ceremonial "shadow sabbaths" linked to the feast days that can fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle. These all point to Jesus and God's plan of salvation for mankind in the new covenant.

Some examples of the "shadow sabbaths" that can fall on any day of the week here...

1. The Sabbaths of the Feast of unleavened bread (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:6-8
2. The Sabbath on the annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:27-32
3. The Sabbath on the annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:24-25?
4. The Sabbath on the Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:34-36
5. Feast of first fruits (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:39
6. The sabbaths (sabbaton plural) of holy convocations from the annual feast days *LEVITICUS 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that can fall on any days of the week
7. The Sabbath of the land (7 year single cycle) *LEVITICUS 25:2
8. The Sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths *LEVITICUS 25:9-54

Hope this helps.

Simply repeating what someone else told you, is not teaching, so they didn't teach you this, they indoctrinated you with this. Teaching 'shows' that something is true and no 7th Day Adventist is capable of 'teaching' this, simply indoctrinating this (telling you it is so without good or really any proof). Logically, if Gregorians, Jews, and Romans all celebrated the 7th day, year to year, on a different day from each other, they obviously weren't in synch AND the Jew had to switch days in 1582 'from' what they viewed as the Sabbath that year, to Gregorian to keep up the Sabbath. They did it anyway, adjusting as they needed to do for the seasons, but such completely undoes 'Saturday' (or Sunday - both named for pagan gods) as any kind of 'holy' day for our Savior. I do NOT mind anyone randomly applying any day to a day of worship. I mind when one tries to assert, against good math that is DEMONSTRABLE, that their particular day, named after a pagan god, is God's holy day. It is wrong-headed, legalistic, Judaizing let alone poor math-thinking. -Lon

Col 2:16 is clearly talking about ALL of the religiously required days that were given to the people of Israel.

Of course Paul is talking about ALL sabbaths days. "The sabbaths days" is just that. There is no limit nor qualification that he places on that verse.

ALL of those things that Paul mentions are shadows of things to come for Israel, BUT the body is of Christ.

Hope this helps.

:up:
^{Colossians 2:16} Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. ¹⁷ These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Do you know what old testament scriptures Paul in quoting from in reference to Colossians 2:16-17? I think this may be a good topic for a new thread. Which I may make next.

Just take it in Paul's context instead of jumping all over the place trying to make some convoluted theology work. If someone has to jump through hoops, to do 'right' theology, something is probably wrong. Its got to make sense to everybody and there just aren't that many Seventh Day Adventists on the planet. The Seventh Day Adventists were not a part of the Evangelical community for a long time because of problematic theologies. There is no sense going back, once it wanted to be a part of the Evangelical movement. Legalism doesn't make any good sense at that point.

 

[3rdAngel]

You are a scripture twister.

Col 2:16 is clearly talking about ALL of the religiously required days that were given to the people of Israel.

Of course Paul is talking about ALL sabbaths days. "The sabbaths days" is just that. There is no limit nor qualification that he places on that verse.

ALL of those things that Paul mentions are shadows of things to come for Israel, BUT the body is of Christ.

Hope this helps.

Not really dear friend. I have only posted God's Word and God's Word is not my words but God's. All you have posted above is your words and opinions that are not God's but yours. I have started a new thread with a detailed scripture exegesis on COLOSSIANS 2:14-16 here if your interested. It proves that the sabbaths in COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 are in regards to the ceremonial "shadow sabbaths" in the ordinances of the annual feast days and days of holy convocation and not God's 4th commandment (detailed scripture support here). According to the new covenant scriptures God's ISRAEL are all those who believe Gods' Word (detailed scripture support here).

Sorry dear friend it seems God's Word disagrees with you. If you disagree please address the two linked threads of scripture provided that prove your in error.

May you receive Gods' Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it disappear.

 

[3rdAngel]

Simply repeating what someone else told you, is not teaching, so they didn't teach you this, they indoctrinated you with this. Teaching 'shows' that something is true and no 7th Day Adventist is capable of 'teaching' this, simply indoctrinating this (telling you it is so without good or really any proof). Logically, if Gregorians, Jews, and Romans all celebrated the 7th day, year to year, on a different day from each other, they obviously weren't in synch AND the Jew had to switch days in 1582 'from' what they viewed as the Sabbath that year, to Gregorian to keep up the Sabbath. They did it anyway, adjusting as they needed to do for the seasons, but such completely undoes 'Saturday' (or Sunday - both named for pagan gods) as any kind of 'holy' day for our Savior. I do NOT mind anyone randomly applying any day to a day of worship. I mind when one tries to assert, against good math that is DEMONSTRABLE, that their particular day, named after a pagan god, is God's holy day. It is wrong-headed, legalistic, Judaizing let alone poor math-thinking. -Lon


:up:
^{Colossians 2:16} Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. ¹⁷ These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Just take it in Paul's context instead of jumping all over the place trying to make some convoluted theology work. If someone has to jump through hoops, to do 'right' theology, something is probably wrong. Its got to make sense to everybody and there just aren't that many Seventh Day Adventists on the planet. The Seventh Day Adventists were not a part of the Evangelical community for a long time because of problematic theologies. There is no sense going back, once it wanted to be a part of the Evangelical movement. Legalism doesn't make any good sense at that point.

Not really dear friend. I will address both of your posts here...

For the records so you know. I have only provided my own work and study of the scriptures that no man has taught me. What I share with you are God's Words not mine. I did not receive them from any man. They are from a prayerful claim of God's promises *JOHN 14:26; JOHN 16:13; JOHN 7:17; JOHN 8:31-36; HEBREWS 8:11 and 1 JOHN 2:27 that he will guide and teach me as I seek him through his Word. Everything I have shared here is from my time with God asking him to guide me and teach me his Word.

All you have posted above are simply your own words as you seek to follow your traditions that your church has taught you that has been handed down to christianity from the Roman Catholic Church. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them ROMANS 3:4 over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. JESUS says that anyone who knowingly follows man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God are not following God in MATTHEW 15:2-9. I agree with PETER when he says we ought to obey God rather than men *ACTS 5:29.

I asked a question in the last post to help the conversation in regards to the calander claims your falsely making. I noticed you made no attempt to answer it. So let me ask it again here...

How can 10 days off a yearly calander cycle effect a seven day weekly when the new calander continues from the old calander on the very next day of the week?

You were already shown in post # 21 linked that when the Julian calender changed to the Gregorian calander in 1582 the days lost from the yearly calander did not disrupt the seven day weekly cycle. The proof is that Thursday October 4 on the Julian calander was followed by Friday October 15 on the new Gregorian calander which keeps the continous weekly cycle in tact. I also posted as further hard evidence the US NAVAL REPORT proving that there was no change to the weekly cycle. What you do not understand about this is beyond me. I suggest you do some more research. Your confused and simpy wrong. Perhaps if you try to answer the question in bold above it may help?

.............

In regards to COLOSSIANS 2:16 and Pauls context? You have provided none. You have simply chrry picked scripture out of context leading you to a false interpretation of the scriptures. You like your friend are simply regurgitating what you have been indoctrinated into believing from your church instead of prayerfully seeking God for an understanding of the truth for yourself in order to justify breaking God's 4th commandment that gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken so you can follow your tradition that is not biblical. If your interested I have provided a detailed scripture exegesis of COLOSSIAN 2:16-17 proving that the within chapted and scripture contexts as will as what PAUL is quoting from linking the old and new testament scriptures in a new thread just started for you guys on COLOSSIANS 2 that show context. It proves that the sabbaths in COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 are in regards to the ceremonial "shadow sabbaths" in the ordinances of the annual feast days and days of holy convocation and not God's 4th commandment (detailed scripture support here). According to the new covenant scriptures God's ISRAEL are all those who believe Gods' Word (detailed scripture support here).

If you disagree please prove why from the scriptures. If you cannot why not receive God's Word and be blessed? Sorry dear friend it seems God's Word disagrees with you. If you disagree please address the two linked threads of scripture provided that prove your in error.

An interesting short video...

May you receive Gods' Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it disappear.

Now shall we get back to the OP? :wave:

 

[Gary K]

:doh:


:doh: You too? Look, just because someone said 'Saturday is Friday' didn't account for 10 days. It means, literally, that ten days were lost in one calendar. When the switch happened, there was absolutely NO reclamation of those ten days. Let me ask you: Was your birthday on the same day this year as last year? No? Did you, in fact, know that the Gregorian calendar is going to have to be adjusted eventually? It does not account for minutes lost. Can YOU do math? The loss of ten days required that there was a skip. How about leap year? Let me put it his way: Saturday this year, is on a different day than Saturday last year, on the calendar because 7 days do not add up to 365 (nor 366). Here is the thing, the DAY the Jews and everybody converted to Gregorian, the mandate of any theoretical Sabbath was ruined. Forever. Fact. The Pope skipped 'ten' days and randomly said 'Friday.' "But it was Friday." :nono: if you added 10 days, it'd have been Monday, by the calendar. Simply a succession of 7 days, perpetually? Sort of, but you'd not be able to say it was 'Saturday' just a random day that changed every year because 365/7=52.14 You'd have to reboot every year to have the same day be the same exact one as last year. Which day is the Sabbath? "Saturday?" :nono: Not if you were a Jew, because they did it differently and the calendars never synched. What did you think happened BEFORE all calendars synched? That's right! Their Sabbath and the Julian "Saturday (named after the god Saturn) weren't the same day (except coincidentally once in a great while)! :lightbulb: Try again. Nobody can damage basic mathematics. If you are not advocating that the pagan "Saturday" is the "Holy Day of God, Sabbath" then it doesn't matter, you are just not good at math and its okay. If you are a Sabbath thumper, there are huge problems: Spiritually, mathematically, and practically. So if you've no horse in this race, you are welcome for the correction. If you are a Sabbath thumper, welcome to clearer thinking. -Lon

Lon,

How does changing a date change the weekly cycle of days? It doesn't. At the calendar switch the week was as follows: Sunday directly preceded Monday which directly preceded Tuesday which directly preceded Wednesday which directly preceded Thursday which directly preceded Friday which directly preceded Saturday. Which day of the weekly cycle was lost or added? If the weekly cycle was changed then Tuesday would have been followed a Monday which is 12 days after Tuesday the 2nd. Never happened. You know it didn't.

I showed you a calendar from a secular source, not a religious source. All it does is relate what actually happened at the calendar changeover. It's not a fan of your position or mine. It's strictly factual. You have to show me where the actual weekly cycle changed. Show evidence from history that the seven day weekly cycle changed. That ought to be really easy to do if your position is true. There would have to be historical documents proving it for a change in the weekly cycle is a huge disruption in how time is counted and how people live. They live according to the weekly cycle and that large of an interruption would have been written about for decades in the experiences of people who lived through it. .

Just in case you didn't actually look at the image of the calendar for that period of time,

 

[Lon]

Not really dear friend. I will address both of your posts here...

For the records so you know. I have only provided my own work and study of the scriptures that no man has taught me. What I share with you are God's Words not mine. I did not receive them from any man or was I taught them. They are from a prayerful claim of his promises that he will guide and teach me as I seek him through his Word.

Special pleading (pleading that YOU are special, and nobody else knows the scriptures like you). I'm sure you are a nice person in life, but you are condescending in print, and worse, are wrong, and seeking to assert authority over every other person you come into contact with.

]All you post above are you own words that deny God's Word as you seek to follow your traditions handed down to christianity from the Roman Catholic Church.

They'd agree with you about a holy day and legalistically keeping it. A change in a different day is STILL Judaism. Let me ask: Was being a Jew, a good thing? (Yes). Are Christians supposed to follow rules, like Christian Jews?
^{Galatians 2:13} The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.
¹⁴ When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

Wait! Did we read that right? Was it hypocrisy to make gentiles practice Jewish custom?

Galatians 3:³ Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

Then: Galatians3:¹⁰ For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”
Galatians 4:⁸ Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. ⁹ But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces^[d]? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? ¹⁰ You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! ¹¹ I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

Finally, please listen to the warning:
Galatians5:⁴ You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. ⁵ For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.

Did you read that with me? Are either of us in danger? Did you read this part when you were preparing your message? Were you familiar with it? What did it say to you?

For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them ROMANS 3:4 over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. JESUS says that anyone who knowingly follows man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God are not following God in MATTHEW 15:2-9. I agree with PETER when he says we ought to obey God rather than men *ACTS 5:29.

Well and good, but would it freak you out 1) that the only thing you really disagree with them, on this matter, is the particular day? and 2) that I completely disagree with both you and the RC?
You aren't (or weren't anyway) grasping that I disagree with you both concerning legalism, rules, and laws. I am not antinomial (against the Law), but rather, with Paul, believe something (Christ in us) supersedes and replaces the Law. We Christians are to no longer live enslaved to it.
Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

I asked a question in the last post to help the conversation in regards to the calander claims your falsely making. I noticed you made no attempt to answer it. So let me ask it again here...

How can 10 days off a yearly calander cycle effect a seven day weekly when the new calander continues from the old calander on the very next day of the week?

Because you are egocentric. Nobody already on the pagan-gods-calendar had to switch. Everybody switching TO that calendar had to switch days unless, by a fortunate coincidence, that year, had to switch to 'Friday.' Does this make sense to you?

You were already shown in post # 21 linked that when the Julian calender changed to the Gregorian calander in 1582 the days lost from the yearly calander did not disrupt the seven day weekly cycle. The proof is that Thursday October 4 on the Julian calander was followed by Friday October 15 on the new Gregorian calander which keeps the continous weekly cycle in tact. I also posted as further hard evidence the US NAVAL REPORT proving that there was no change to the weekly cycle. What you do not understand about this is beyond me. I suggest you do some more research. Your confused and simpy wrong. Perhaps if you try to answer the question in bold above it may help?

For egocentric Gregorians, there was no change, correct. For everyone else changing to that calendar? Yes, they have to give up their day of the week and skip into whatever day of the week it is on the Gregorian calendar.

.............

In regards to COLOSSIANS 2:16 and Pauls context? You have provided none. You have simply chrry picked scripture out of context leading you to a false interpretation of the scriptures.

Don't assert it, prove it. First of all, I didn't give Colossians 2:16, JR did. Second, JUST read it in its context. That's what I said. How in the world can you possibly think I ripped it from context, then? Aren't you just stabbing with that long-knife in the dark, hoping to hit my chest??? Are you paying attention to who said what?

You like your friend are simply regurgitating what you have been indoctrinated into believing from your church instead of prayerfully seeking God for an understanding of the truth for yourself in order to justify breaking God's 4th commandment that gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken so you can follow your tradition that is not biblical. If your interested I have provided a detailed scripture exegesis of COLOSSIAN 2:16-17

(longwinded run-on sentence that I have to break up to stop you for two seconds) 1) You are regurgitating what I already said to you. It becomes mindless parroting with "nuh uh, I'm not ugly, YOU are ugly." 2) I gave qualifications, meaning 'if' that the logical end is 'then' to my statements. It means, "if you cannot think and show that you are correct, (then) it means you are indoctrinated by somebody. We can all get defensive when we are challenged, but we need to get this right, between us. Read the context, yourself, it reads very much as Galatians does:

Spoiler

¹⁶ Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. ¹⁷ These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. ¹⁸ Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. ¹⁹ They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

²⁰ Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: ²¹ “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? ²² These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. ²³ Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

proving that the within chapted and scripture contexts as will as what PAUL is quoting from linking the old and new testament scriptures in a new thread just started for you guys on COLOSSIANS 2 that show context. It proves that the sabbaths in COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 are in regards to the ceremonial "shadow sabbaths" in the ordinances of the annual feast days and days of holy convocation and not God's 4th commandment (detailed scripture support here). According to the new covenant scriptures God's ISRAEL are all those who believe Gods' Word (detailed scripture support here).

If you disagree please prove why from the scriptures. If you cannot why not receive God's Word and be blessed?

I'll look it over.

Sorry dear friend it seems God's Word disagrees with you. If you disagree please address the two linked threads of scripture provided that prove your in error.

May you receive Gods' Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it disappear.

Or do you mean, that I just disagree with you concerning it? How intelligent are you? Should anybody follow you as a teacher? Are you brilliant and make no mistakes? :think:

 

[3rdAngel]

Special pleading (pleading that YOU are special, and nobody else knows the scriptures like you). I'm sure you are a nice person in life, but you are condescending in print, and worse, are wrong, and seeking to assert authority over every other person you come into contact with.

Sadly all your posting here are empty words that have no basis in truth that do not address anything in the post you are quoting from dear Lon

They'd agree with you about a holy day and legalistically keeping it. A change in a different day is STILL Judaism. Let me ask: Was being a Jew, a good thing? (Yes). Are Christians supposed to follow rules, like Christian Jews? Galatians 2:13 he other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

Wait! Did we read that right? Was it hypocrisy to make gentiles practice Jewish custom?

Galatians 3:3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

Then: Galatians3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”
Galatians 4:8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces ? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

Finally, please listen to the warning:
Galatians5:4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.
Did you read that with me? Are either of us in danger? Did you read this part when you were preparing your message? Were you familiar with it? What did it say to you?

Your confused dear friend. Who has said to you that we are saved by law keeping? If I have never said such things why are you pretending that I have? How does what you have posted here address anything to what you are quoting from? It doesn't. Ok now that is out of the way let me tell you what it is I actually believe so you have no misunderstanding and there is no confusion here. No one has ever once said to you or posted anywhere in this thread we are saved by keeping the law. Let's get this clear. I believe according to the scriptures that we are only saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD by faith that works by LOVE. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the NEW COVENANT promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. Hope this clear up any misunderstandings you may have had.

Well and good, but would it freak you out 1) that the only thing you really disagree with them, on this matter, is the particular day? and 2) that I completely disagree with both you and the RC? You aren't (or weren't anyway) grasping that I disagree with you both concerning legalism, rules, and laws. I am not antinomial (against the Law), but rather, with Paul, believe something (Christ in us) supersedes and replaces the Law. We Christians are to no longer live enslaved to it. Galatians 5:1It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

You seem confused here as well dear friend. No one is a slave to the law. All the law does is give us a knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. You means a slave of sin which is transgression of the law. We are all sinners in need of a Saviour. This is all the law shows. No one is teaching legalism (see previous section) The slavery being referred to here is to sin and death not the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20.

Originally posted by 3rdAngel View Post I asked a question in the last post to help the conversation in regards to the calander claims your falsely making. I noticed you made no attempt to answer it. So let me ask it again here...

How can 10 days off a yearly calander cycle effect a seven day weekly when the new calander continues from the old calander on the very next day of the week?

Your repsonse here...

Because you are egocentric. Nobody already on the pagan-gods-calendar had to switch. Everybody switching TO that calendar had to switch days unless, by a fortunate coincidence, that year, had to switch to 'Friday.' Does this make sense to you? For egocentric Gregorians, there was no change, correct. For everyone else changing to that calendar? Yes, they have to give up their day of the week and skip into whatever day of the week it is on the Gregorian calendar.

Actually No dear Lon it makes no sense whatsoever. You just rambulled on and called me names and did not answer the question asked of you. You were shown in earlier posts that there was no switching of days. As posted earlier the Gregorian calander in 1582 did not disrupt the seven day weekly cycle asThursday October 4 on the Julian calander was followed by Friday October 15 on the new Gregorian calander which keeps the continous weekly cycle in tact. I also posted as further hard evidence the US NAVAL REPORT proving that there was no change to the weekly cycle. What you do not understand about this is beyond me. I suggest you do some more research. Your confused and simpy wrong.

Don't assert it, prove it. First of all, I didn't give Colossians 2:16, JR did. Second, JUST read it in its context. That's what I said. How in the world can you possibly think I ripped it from context, then? Aren't you just stabbing with that long-knife in the dark, hoping to hit my chest??? Are you paying attention to who said what?

Already did some time back. Your not keeping up. Go here for a detailed exegesis on COLOSSIANS 2:14-17 linked

(longwinded run-on sentence that I have to break up to stop you for two seconds) 1) You are regurgitating what I already said to you. It becomes mindless parroting with "nuh uh, I'm not ugly, YOU are ugly." 2) I gave qualifications, meaning 'if' that the logical end is 'then' to my statements. It means, "if you cannot think and show that you are correct, (then) it means you are indoctrinated by somebody. We can all get defensive when we are challenged, but we need to get this right, between us. Read the context, yourself, it reads very much as Galatians does:

What? Your post has no truth in it. This has already been addressed. For the third time now go here for a detailed exegesis on COLOSSIANS 2:14-17 linked. If you disagree prove why you disagree. If you cannot be like a faithful BAREAN and prayerfully study the scriptures for yourself and see if these things be true and receive God's blessings.

Hope this helps