CAN YOU HAVE GOD'S GRACE WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?

3rdAngel

New member
Q2. CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW? (Part 2/2)

Can we have GRACE without God's LAW if the purpose of God's LAW is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172?

This same question is linked to what JESUS says to the Pharisees in MATTHEW 7.

MATTHEW 7:12-13
[12], But when Jesus heard that, he said to them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. [13], But go you and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

JESUS tells the PHARISEES to go learn what it means when he says; They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick; I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

HOW DO WE KNOW THAT WE ARE SINNERS IN NEED OF A SAVIOUR? HOW DO WE KNOW THAT WE ARE SICK IN NEED OF A PHYSICIAN? JESUS is saying that it is these that he has come for NOT those that think they are RIGHTOUESNESS and have no need. SIN is breaking any one of God's 10 Commandments *JAMES 2:10-11; ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4

God's LAW is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. The purpose of God's LAW is to show us that we are all sick with SIN and in need of a SAVIOUR. God's LAW (10 commandments) lead us to the true PHYSICIAN JESUS so we can be healed. God's LAW is the mirror we look into to see ourselves as God sees us full of SIN from the INSIDE OUT.

It is God's LAW that leads us to cross of our LORD and SAVIOUR where we behold the LOVE of GOD has for us in that while we were yet SINNERS Christ died for us that whosoever should BELIEVE on him should not PERISH but should have everlasting life *ROMANS 5:6-10; JOHN 3:15-16. God's LAW leads us to the CROSS of JESUS where we have our eyes opened to God's LOVE for us and to see JESUS dying for the sins that we have done in order to bring us back to GOD. This is God's gift to all who BELIEVE and accept the GIFT of JESUS, His DEATH for our SINS. The purpose of God's LAW is to lead us to CHRIST that we might be FORGIVEN by FAITH by accepting his death for our SINS *GALATIANS 3:22-25.

..............

CONCLUSION: CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW? The answer as shown in the scriptures above is NO! It is God's LAW (10 commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. It is God's LAW that leads us to God's GRACE found in his only begotten son that whosoever BELIEVES in HIM should not perish but have everlasting life. If is God's LAW that leads us to the CROSS that we might be FORGIVEN by FAITH. If you do not know you are sick you have no need of a Physician. If we have no KNOWLEDGE of SIN we have no need of a Saviour.

God bless.
 

3rdAngel

New member
Q3. WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?

This one is possibly the easiest of the three questions to answer. To answer this question we need to understand th purpose of God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments).

The purpose of God's LAW is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. Without God's LAW (10 Commandments) we have no KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is. If we have no knowledge of what sin is then we have no need of a Saviour. If we have no need of a Saviour we have no salvation because we are still in our sins. If we are still in our sins we are lost because the wages of sin is death to those who reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. God's LAW is the mirror that shows us that we are all SINNERS *JAMES 1:23 in need of a Saviour 1 JOHN 4:14.

We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. God's LAW is the mirror that shows us we are all sick with sin and in need of the great Physician (Saviour) *JAMES 1:23. GOD'S LAW leads us to Christ that we might be FORGIVEN by FAITH at the foot of the cross of JESUS where we are without excuse. Here we see the GIFT of GRACE and God's LOVE for us in Gods dear son. Here we see God's LOVE for sinners of whom I am chief. The penalty for SIN is death *ROMANS 6:23. We all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God *ROMANS 3:23 and stand guilty before GOD of sin. The only atonement for sin is death but God so loved us that he was not willing that any one of us should perish and gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life *JOHN 3:16. JESUS died the death we deserve to die on our behalf for anyone who will accept God's GIFT of GRACE found in JESUS death on the cross.

The purpose of God's LAW is to lead us to GRACE found only through GOD'S dear son where we can find FORGIVENESS for the burden of our sins as we rely and BELIEVE soley in the promises of GOD's WORD. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician and many do not know the meaning *MATTHEW 9:12-13. God's LAW shows us our sickness. When JESUS, the great Physician says arise take up your bed and walk. I believe him. How about you? What wonders we see in God's LOVE for us in that while we were yet sinners condemned to die; JESUS died my death for my sins that if I accept his free gift of LIFE, I might live. Nothnig as an offering do I bring simply to your cross I cling. Open our eyes Lord. We want to see JESUS. May God bless you dear friend as you see the gift of God's dear son in JESUS

There is NO GRACE without God's LAW. It is God's LAW (10 Commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is and leads us to God's GRACE.

God bless
 

3rdAngel

New member
So in summary there is no grace without Gods Law as it is God's Law that leads us to and reveals God's Grace because all have sinned and fall short of God's glory and the wages of those sin is death but God so loved our world that he gave his only beggotten Son so that whosoever believes on him would not perish but have everlasting life.

God bless all, may you receive God's Word and be blessed
 

Lon

Well-known member
Php 3:9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith.

More scriptures on the same. The Apostle Paul is clear without the need of commentary to prove a point:
Spoiler
Rom 2:1 Therefore you are without excuse, O man, everyone who judges; for in that in which you judge another, you condemn yourself, for you who judge do the same things.

Rom 2:3 And, O man, the one judging those who do such things, and practice them, do you think this, that you shall escape the judgment of God?

Rom 2:12 For as many as sinned without Law will also perish without Law. And as many as have sinned within Law shall be judged through Law.

Rom 2:17 Behold, you are called a Jew, and rest in the Law, and boast in God;
Rom 2:18 and know His will and approve the things excelling, being instructed out of the Law;
Rom 2:19 and persuading yourselves to be a guide of the blind, a light to those in darkness;
Rom 2:20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, who have the form of knowledge and of the truth in the Law.

Rom 2:23 You who boast in Law, do you dishonor God through breaking the Law?
Rom 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the nations because of you, as it is written.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that outwardly in flesh;
Rom 2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart; in spirit and not in letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God.

Rom 3:20 because by the works of the Law none of all flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:21 But now a righteousness of God has been revealed apart from Law, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets;
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God through the faith of Jesus Christ, toward all and upon all those who believe. For there is no difference,
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus;
Rom 3:25 whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness through the passing by of the sins that had taken place before, in the forbearance of God;

Rom 3:27 Then where is the boasting? It is excluded. Through what law? Of works? No, but through the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the works of the Law.

Rom 5:8 But God commends His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Rom 5:11 And not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Rom 6:6 knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him in order that the body of sin might be destroyed, that from now on we should not serve sin.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under Law, but under grace.

Romans 6:13Do not present the parts of your body to sin as instruments of wickedness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and present the parts of your body to Him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. 15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace? Certainly not!

Rom 6:22 But now, being made free from sin, and having become slaves to God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Rom 6:6 knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him in order that the body of sin might be destroyed, that from now on we should not serve sin.
Rom 7:1 Or are you ignorant, brothers; for I speak to those who know the Law; that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?

Rom 7:6 But now we having been set free from the Law, having died to that in which we were held, so that we serve in newness of spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do, I know not. For what I desire, that I do not do; but what I hate, that I do.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I do not desire, I consent to the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 But now it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwells no good thing. For to will is present with me, but how to perform that which is good I do not find.
Rom 7:19 For I do not do the good that I desire; but the evil which I do not will, that I do.
Rom 7:20 But if I do what I do not desire, it is no more I working it out, but sin dwelling in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law: when I will to do the right, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the Law of God according to the inward man;
Rom 7:23 but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin being in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then with the mind I myself serve the Law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 But the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh;
Rom 8:4 so that the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Rom 8:7 because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can it be.
Rom 8:8 So then they who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ is in you, indeed the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of the One who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the One who raised up Christ from the dead shall also make your mortal bodies alive by His Spirit who dwells in you.

Rom 8:15 For you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption by which we cry, Abba, Father!
Rom 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.
Rom 8:17 And if we are children, then we are heirs; heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ; so that if we suffer with Him, we may also be glorified together.

Rom 8:33 Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect? It is God who justifies.
Rom 8:34 Who is he condemning? It is Christ who has died, but rather also who is raised, who is also at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.

Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the nations, who did not follow after righteousness have taken on righteousness, but a righteousness of faith.
Rom 9:31 But Israel, who followed after a law of righteousness did not arrive at a law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Why? Because it was not of faith, but as it were by the works of the Law. For they stumbled at that Stumbling-stone;
Rom 9:33 as it is written, "Behold, I lay in Zion a Stumbling-stone and a Rock-of-offense, and everyone believing on Him shall not be put to shame."

Rom 10:2 For I bear record to them that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
Rom 10:3 For they, being ignorant of God's righteousness and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for everyone who believes.

Rom 10:9 Because if you confess the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone believing on Him shall not be put to shame."

Rom 10:13 For everyone, "whoever shall call on the name of the Lord will be saved."
Gal 1:6 I marvel that you so soon are being moved away from Him who called you into the grace of Christ, to another gospel,
Gal 1:7 which is not another, but some are troubling you, and desiring to pervert the gospel of Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:2Co 3:6 who also has made us able ministers of the new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit makes alive.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, having been engraved in letters in stone was with glory (so that the sons of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses because of the glory of his face), which was being done away;
2Co 3:8 shall not the ministry of the Spirit be with more glory?

2Corinthians 3:11 For if that which has been done away was glorious, much more that which remains is glorious.

Gal 2:4 But because of those false brothers stealing in, who stole in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus; they desiring to enslave us;
Gal 2:5 to whom not even for an hour did we yield in subjection, that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they did not walk uprightly with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before all, If you, being a Jew, live as a Gentile, and not as the Jews, why do you compel the nations to judaize?
Gal 2:16 knowing that a man is not justified by works of the Law, but through faith in Jesus Christ; even we believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith in Christ, and not by works of the Law. For all flesh will not be justified by works of law.
Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified in Christ, we also were found to be sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Let it not be said!
Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I confirm myself as a transgressor.
Gal 2:19 For through the Law I died to the law, that I might live to God.
Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ, and I live; yet no longer I, but Christ lives in me. And that life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith toward the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself on my behalf.
Gal 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness is through law, then Christ died without cause.
Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who bewitched you not to obey the truth, to whom before your eyes Jesus Christ was written among you crucified?
Gal 3:2 This only I would learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, do you now perfect yourself in the flesh?
Gal 3:5 Then He supplying the Spirit to you and working powerful works in you, is it by works of the law, or by hearing of faith?
Gal 3:10 For as many as are out of works of the Law, these are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the Book of the Law, to do them."
Gal 3:11 But that no one is justified by the Law in the sight of God is clear, for, "The just shall live by faith."
Gal 3:12 But the Law is not of faith; but, "The man who does these things shall live in them."

Gal 3:19 Why then the Law? It was added because of transgressions, until the Seed should come to those to whom it had been promised, being ordained through angels in the Mediator's hand.

Gal 4:1 But I say, Over so long a time the heir is an infant, he does not differ from a slave, though being lord of all;
Gal 4:2 but he is under guardians and housemasters until the term appointed before by the father.
Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were infants, were in bondage under the elements of the world.
Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, coming into being out of a woman, having come under Law,
Gal 4:5 that He might redeem those under Law, so that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 So that you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, also an heir of God through Christ.

Gal 4:8 But then, indeed, not knowing God, you served as slaves to those not by nature being gods.
Gal 4:9 But now, knowing God, but rather are known by God, how do you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements to which you again desire to slave anew?
Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and times and years.
Gal 4:11 I fear for you, lest somehow I have labored among you in vain.



Gal 4:24 which things are being allegorized; for these are the two covenants, one indeed from Mount Sinai bringing forth to slavery, which is Hagar.
Gal 4:25 For Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is, and is in slavery with her children.
Gal 4:26 But the Jerusalem from above is free, who is the mother of us all. me.
Gal 4:16 So then did I become your enemy speaking to you the truth?
Gal 4:17 They are zealous for you, but not well. But they only desire to shut you out, that you be zealous to them.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty with which Christ has made us free, and do not again be held with the yoke of bondage.
Gal 5:2 Behold, I, Paul, say to you that if you are circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do all the Law,
Gal 5:4 you who are justified by Law are deprived of all effect from Christ; you fell from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness out of faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any strength, but faith working through love.
Gal 5:7 You were running well. Who hindered you that you do not obey the truth?
Gal 5:8 This persuasion is not from Him who calls you.
Gal 5:9 A little leaven leavens all the lump.

Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

Gal 5:24 But those belonging to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not become glory-seeking, provoking one another, envying one another.

Gal 6:3 For if anyone thinks himself to be something, being nothing, he deceives himself.
Gal 6:4 But let each one prove his own work, and then he alone will have a boast in himself, and not in another.
Gal 6:5 For each one will bear his own load.

Gal 6:12 As many as desire to look well in the flesh, these compel you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
Gal 6:13 For they themselves, having been circumcised, do not even keep the Law, but they desire you to be circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh.
Gal 6:14 But may it never be for me to boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified to me, and I to the world.
Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision has any strength, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
Gal 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them and upon the Israel of God.

Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.


Eph 2:15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity (the Law of commandments contained in ordinances) so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, making peace between them;

Php 3:9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—
Php 3:10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
Php 3:11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.


Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
Col 2:17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

1Ti 1:8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully,
1Ti 1:9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,
1Ti 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
1Ti 1:11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

Titus 3:4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people. 9 But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10 As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, 11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

Hebrews

Heb 12:6 for whom the Lord loves He chastens, and He scourges every son whom He receives."
Heb 12:7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons, for what son is he whom the father does not chasten?
Heb 12:8 But if you are without chastisement, of which all are partakers, then you are bastards and not sons.

If His, buckle up.

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is of necessity a change made in the law also.

Heb 7:16 who is made, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life.

Heb 7:18 For truly there is a putting away of the commandment which went before, because of the weakness and unprofitableness of it.

Heb 7:19 For the Law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did, by which we draw near to God.

Heb 7:22 by so much was Jesus made a surety of a better covenant.

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by so much He is also the Mediator of a better covenant, which was built upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been without fault, then no place would have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, He said to them, "Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, and I will make an end on the house of Israel and on the house of Judah; a new covenant shall be,
Heb 8:9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day I took hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt," because they did not continue in My covenant, and I did not regard them, says the Lord.
Heb 8:10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My Laws into their mind and write them in their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Heb 8:11 And they shall not each man teach his neighbor, and each man his brother, saying, Know the Lord, for all shall know Me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities I will remember no more."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, A new covenant, He has made the first one old. Now that which decays and becomes old is ready to vanish away.


Paul says the law convicts us of sin, but our righteousness through Christ, is apart from the Law. In that sense, It'd be hard to have grace without first knowing we need it (Grace because of the Law) but righteousness comes apart from the Law, from the above scriptures given. -Lon
 

clefty

New member
Hope TOL had a Happy Independence Day...

A day we celebrated a desire to establish a new law...to be free from another’s tyrannical rule...and not a new law but one NEWLY INTERPRETED as ALREADY GIVEN as an inalienable right by our Creator...rights to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them.

Hope TOL appreciates that though it did NOTHING to obtain these rights, it is by those that DID fight and die, that we by the GRACE of their shed blood CAN now live accordingly...and to Nature’s God.

don’t get MAD though...as King George did...went MAD thinking rights and freedoms were UNEQUALLY dispensed...and by Him...as if only through the state and its church...
 
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clefty

New member
Php 3:9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law,
exactly...we can NOT keep the Law perfectly...break one break all...can NOT earn righteousness like a merit badge or a medal...
but that which comes through faith in Christ,
yes we realize our need of Him our separation from Him and His ways...from His faith...and we now recognize ALL He has done for us...from creation until the new heaven and the new earth...these ARE still shadows of the good things still to come...
the righteousness from God that depends on faith.
and that faith compels us out of gratitude to DO works befitting repentance...His law is no longer burdensome...having received as a gift His righteousness we His Way is no longer an instruction manual on how to build/earn righteousness but is now an OWNER’S MANUAL showing us how to best use and preserve and MAXIMIZE it...all the little bells and whistles it has...the jots and tittles...

More scriptures on the same. The Apostle Paul is clear without the need of commentary to prove a point:
Spoiler
Rom 2:1 Therefore you are without excuse, O man, everyone who judges; for in that in which you judge another, you condemn yourself, for you who judge do the same things.

Rom 2:3 And, O man, the one judging those who do such things, and practice them, do you think this, that you shall escape the judgment of God?

Rom 2:12 For as many as sinned without Law will also perish without Law. And as many as have sinned within Law shall be judged through Law.

Rom 2:17 Behold, you are called a Jew, and rest in the Law, and boast in God;
Rom 2:18 and know His will and approve the things excelling, being instructed out of the Law;
Rom 2:19 and persuading yourselves to be a guide of the blind, a light to those in darkness;
Rom 2:20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, who have the form of knowledge and of the truth in the Law.

Rom 2:23 You who boast in Law, do you dishonor God through breaking the Law?
Rom 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the nations because of you, as it is written.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that outwardly in flesh;
Rom 2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart; in spirit and not in letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God.

Rom 3:20 because by the works of the Law none of all flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:21 But now a righteousness of God has been revealed apart from Law, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets;
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God through the faith of Jesus Christ, toward all and upon all those who believe. For there is no difference,
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus;
Rom 3:25 whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness through the passing by of the sins that had taken place before, in the forbearance of God;

Rom 3:27 Then where is the boasting? It is excluded. Through what law? Of works? No, but through the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the works of the Law.

Rom 5:8 But God commends His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Rom 5:11 And not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Rom 6:6 knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him in order that the body of sin might be destroyed, that from now on we should not serve sin.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under Law, but under grace.

Romans 6:13Do not present the parts of your body to sin as instruments of wickedness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and present the parts of your body to Him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. 15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace? Certainly not!

Rom 6:22 But now, being made free from sin, and having become slaves to God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Rom 6:6 knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him in order that the body of sin might be destroyed, that from now on we should not serve sin.
Rom 7:1 Or are you ignorant, brothers; for I speak to those who know the Law; that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?

Rom 7:6 But now we having been set free from the Law, having died to that in which we were held, so that we serve in newness of spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do, I know not. For what I desire, that I do not do; but what I hate, that I do.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I do not desire, I consent to the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 But now it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwells no good thing. For to will is present with me, but how to perform that which is good I do not find.
Rom 7:19 For I do not do the good that I desire; but the evil which I do not will, that I do.
Rom 7:20 But if I do what I do not desire, it is no more I working it out, but sin dwelling in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law: when I will to do the right, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the Law of God according to the inward man;
Rom 7:23 but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin being in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then with the mind I myself serve the Law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 But the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh;
Rom 8:4 so that the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Rom 8:7 because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can it be.
Rom 8:8 So then they who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ is in you, indeed the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of the One who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the One who raised up Christ from the dead shall also make your mortal bodies alive by His Spirit who dwells in you.

Rom 8:15 For you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption by which we cry, Abba, Father!
Rom 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.
Rom 8:17 And if we are children, then we are heirs; heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ; so that if we suffer with Him, we may also be glorified together.

Rom 8:33 Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect? It is God who justifies.
Rom 8:34 Who is he condemning? It is Christ who has died, but rather also who is raised, who is also at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.

Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the nations, who did not follow after righteousness have taken on righteousness, but a righteousness of faith.
Rom 9:31 But Israel, who followed after a law of righteousness did not arrive at a law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Why? Because it was not of faith, but as it were by the works of the Law. For they stumbled at that Stumbling-stone;
Rom 9:33 as it is written, "Behold, I lay in Zion a Stumbling-stone and a Rock-of-offense, and everyone believing on Him shall not be put to shame."

Rom 10:2 For I bear record to them that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
Rom 10:3 For they, being ignorant of God's righteousness and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for everyone who believes.

Rom 10:9 Because if you confess the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone believing on Him shall not be put to shame."

Rom 10:13 For everyone, "whoever shall call on the name of the Lord will be saved."
Gal 1:6 I marvel that you so soon are being moved away from Him who called you into the grace of Christ, to another gospel,
Gal 1:7 which is not another, but some are troubling you, and desiring to pervert the gospel of Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:2Co 3:6 who also has made us able ministers of the new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit makes alive.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, having been engraved in letters in stone was with glory (so that the sons of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses because of the glory of his face), which was being done away;
2Co 3:8 shall not the ministry of the Spirit be with more glory?

2Corinthians 3:11 For if that which has been done away was glorious, much more that which remains is glorious.

Gal 2:4 But because of those false brothers stealing in, who stole in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus; they desiring to enslave us;
Gal 2:5 to whom not even for an hour did we yield in subjection, that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they did not walk uprightly with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before all, If you, being a Jew, live as a Gentile, and not as the Jews, why do you compel the nations to judaize?
Gal 2:16 knowing that a man is not justified by works of the Law, but through faith in Jesus Christ; even we believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith in Christ, and not by works of the Law. For all flesh will not be justified by works of law.
Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified in Christ, we also were found to be sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Let it not be said!
Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I confirm myself as a transgressor.
Gal 2:19 For through the Law I died to the law, that I might live to God.
Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ, and I live; yet no longer I, but Christ lives in me. And that life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith toward the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself on my behalf.
Gal 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness is through law, then Christ died without cause.
Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who bewitched you not to obey the truth, to whom before your eyes Jesus Christ was written among you crucified?
Gal 3:2 This only I would learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, do you now perfect yourself in the flesh?
Gal 3:5 Then He supplying the Spirit to you and working powerful works in you, is it by works of the law, or by hearing of faith?
Gal 3:10 For as many as are out of works of the Law, these are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the Book of the Law, to do them."
Gal 3:11 But that no one is justified by the Law in the sight of God is clear, for, "The just shall live by faith."
Gal 3:12 But the Law is not of faith; but, "The man who does these things shall live in them."

Gal 3:19 Why then the Law? It was added because of transgressions, until the Seed should come to those to whom it had been promised, being ordained through angels in the Mediator's hand.

Gal 4:1 But I say, Over so long a time the heir is an infant, he does not differ from a slave, though being lord of all;
Gal 4:2 but he is under guardians and housemasters until the term appointed before by the father.
Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were infants, were in bondage under the elements of the world.
Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, coming into being out of a woman, having come under Law,
Gal 4:5 that He might redeem those under Law, so that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 So that you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, also an heir of God through Christ.

Gal 4:8 But then, indeed, not knowing God, you served as slaves to those not by nature being gods.
Gal 4:9 But now, knowing God, but rather are known by God, how do you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements to which you again desire to slave anew?
Gal 4:10 You observe days and months and times and years.
Gal 4:11 I fear for you, lest somehow I have labored among you in vain.



Gal 4:24 which things are being allegorized; for these are the two covenants, one indeed from Mount Sinai bringing forth to slavery, which is Hagar.
Gal 4:25 For Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is, and is in slavery with her children.
Gal 4:26 But the Jerusalem from above is free, who is the mother of us all. me.
Gal 4:16 So then did I become your enemy speaking to you the truth?
Gal 4:17 They are zealous for you, but not well. But they only desire to shut you out, that you be zealous to them.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty with which Christ has made us free, and do not again be held with the yoke of bondage.
Gal 5:2 Behold, I, Paul, say to you that if you are circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do all the Law,
Gal 5:4 you who are justified by Law are deprived of all effect from Christ; you fell from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness out of faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any strength, but faith working through love.
Gal 5:7 You were running well. Who hindered you that you do not obey the truth?
Gal 5:8 This persuasion is not from Him who calls you.
Gal 5:9 A little leaven leavens all the lump.

Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

Gal 5:24 But those belonging to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not become glory-seeking, provoking one another, envying one another.

Gal 6:3 For if anyone thinks himself to be something, being nothing, he deceives himself.
Gal 6:4 But let each one prove his own work, and then he alone will have a boast in himself, and not in another.
Gal 6:5 For each one will bear his own load.

Gal 6:12 As many as desire to look well in the flesh, these compel you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
Gal 6:13 For they themselves, having been circumcised, do not even keep the Law, but they desire you to be circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh.
Gal 6:14 But may it never be for me to boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified to me, and I to the world.
Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision has any strength, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
Gal 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them and upon the Israel of God.

Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.


Eph 2:15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity (the Law of commandments contained in ordinances) so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, making peace between them;

Php 3:9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—
Php 3:10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
Php 3:11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.


Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
Col 2:17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

1Ti 1:8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully,
1Ti 1:9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,
1Ti 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
1Ti 1:11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

Titus 3:4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people. 9 But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10 As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, 11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

Hebrews

Heb 12:6 for whom the Lord loves He chastens, and He scourges every son whom He receives."
Heb 12:7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons, for what son is he whom the father does not chasten?
Heb 12:8 But if you are without chastisement, of which all are partakers, then you are bastards and not sons.

If His, buckle up.

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is of necessity a change made in the law also.

Heb 7:16 who is made, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life.

Heb 7:18 For truly there is a putting away of the commandment which went before, because of the weakness and unprofitableness of it.

Heb 7:19 For the Law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did, by which we draw near to God.

Heb 7:22 by so much was Jesus made a surety of a better covenant.

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by so much He is also the Mediator of a better covenant, which was built upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been without fault, then no place would have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, He said to them, "Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, and I will make an end on the house of Israel and on the house of Judah; a new covenant shall be,
Heb 8:9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day I took hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt," because they did not continue in My covenant, and I did not regard them, says the Lord.
Heb 8:10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My Laws into their mind and write them in their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Heb 8:11 And they shall not each man teach his neighbor, and each man his brother, saying, Know the Lord, for all shall know Me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities I will remember no more."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, A new covenant, He has made the first one old. Now that which decays and becomes old is ready to vanish away.

Awww come on Coach, did you eat around the center of the watermelon yesterday too? You left the best part out in Romans 7:

7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.

Slaves...hmmmm

It was as some realized they wanted FREEEEEEDOM...that it was from their Hearts they no longer felt subjects to a tyrannical king.

“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them” and appealed to a Higher Authority...to establish Law not to flee from Law...

We too wish to flee the slavery of the law of sin and death from a tyrannical King Satan who is also MAD...lol...claiming Yah’s Laws are “NOT FOR ME!”

We too wish freedom and inalienable RIGHTS from Our Creator...to which the Laws of Nature and Nature’s God entitle us...a Law of LIBERTY...

In 1776 it was a continuation of a previous desire that others fled persecution and enslavement the Pilgrims and Puritans and from Protestant persecution...some desiring to keep ALL DAY Sabbath (Sundays) some even keeping seventh day Sabbaths

http://12tribehistory.com/pilgrims-k...h-day-sabbath/

Neither group of Protestants desired to be free from His Law...but as with ALL kingdom reforms it becomes a LEGAL process...from hearts already re-formed...

You missed some other Independence feast stables...Heb 4:9 There remains therefore a SABBATISMOS for the people of Yah...are you part of His Independent people under the Law of Liberty? Heb 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself ceased from his works as Yah did from His...so as Yah worked six days and rested so do we who have entered His PROMISED LAND rest...He did works of creation which He rested from not righteousness or redemption...those He has not cease His work...

Paul says the law convicts us of sin,
HalleluYah now I know how I annoy Him...keep myself from being where “I AM”
but our righteousness through Christ,
yup ONLY through Him to we attain it as a free gift LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE HE CREATED FOR US...I mean what did you DO to have Him give you your life? This planet? All that is in it? NOTHING it is a gift...accept or reject...just as WHAT DID YOU DO FOR INDEPENDENCE on July 4 1776?

is apart from the Law.
yup...Law does not perfect as it was not made for that...just reflects need to do so and IN HIM and BY HIM

In that sense, It'd be hard to have grace without first knowing we need it (Grace because of the Law)
HalleluYah Lon you realized your need and now ARE saved...His...now live that way...

indeed we must see ouselves as worthy of death...dead like the sacrificed goats of old...die to self and in NEED of resurrection...through Him ALONE...

but righteousness comes apart from the Law, from the above scriptures given. -Lon

Exactly...someone else fought and died so that you might celebrate July 4th your independence...others realized their need of independence...from what LAW? Certainly NOT!...but from Mad King George’s Law...

Just like someone else realized their need of salvation from Egypt and were saved...from what Law? Yah forbid! But from Egypt...and then were given His Law for His people both Native and Stranger within the gates...see the Sabbath commandment for confirmation...

Yes we did NOTHING for what was achieved...first they recognized their need for independence then they DECLARED IT and why...signed and SEALED IT...and then ESTABLISHED their LAW codified it in a constitution...

Tell me Lon what did you do to earn it? (Even an immigrant FEELS it in their American Heart first and desiring to learn more and then SWEARS TO IT WANTING TO KEEP ITS LAWS...some more than others)

But what did our Protestant founding fathers EXPECT of us to MAINTAIN it? A “We aint under NO stinkin’ Law no more?” attitude Is THAT what they lived to die for? The irony we are LOSING OUR “we the people” republic because the people ARE CHANGED...corrupted and have EXACTLY that attitude...including these crazy Marxist kids...

the real looting and destruction of Her Blessing is those of us who are too lazy and too prosperous and feel they are ABOVE THE LAW...(we are also slowly being replaced by a people whose creator did NOT give them inalienable rights to freedom of conscience or speech or a separation of church from the state...also ironic they reject what Times and Laws were given to His People by Him when made independant from Sin/Egypt...accepting instead man’s tradition from a substitute...vicar OF HIM)

Ok sorry...where was I? Oh yes so we didnt do anything for our Independence but have much to do to preserve it...not independant from Law...but King George’s Madness...lol...exactly like we did NOTHING when the world its Sabbath was created...again NOTHING when freed from Sin/Egypt...and yet again when after sacrificed that Passover He lay resting in the tomb having “it is finished” the Promise TO ALL MANKIND...and not just Jews...freed from sin its law of death we did nothing to receive the Law of liberty...

I notice too besides eating around the sweet part in Romans 7 and omitting a staple at ALL Independence festivals Heb 4:9 you also missed the grandest finale of fireworks still to come...

Rev 14:12 “Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua”

Rev 22:7“Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

(Even here John receives a correction to PROPER WORSHIP...might we learn to do the same)

10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.”

BOOM indeed may the Grace you received when you realized your need of it be with you...still...and throughout the good things still to come... of which the shadows ARE pointing to...still

Happy Independence from King George’s Madness...to a law of liberty...

“Here is your republic-if you can keep it” Ben Franklin...
 
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KerimF

New member
It happens that living God's Love towards all others, as revealed and lived by Jesus Christ, is more than enough for me.

Naturally, those who cannot, for one reason or another, live this unconditional lawless Love, can try their best to get God's Grace by obeying, as possible, whatever is approved, in our days, as being of God's Law. (But I also heard, so I am not sure if this is real, that if someone is among God's chosen people, he has God's Grace no matter what he does).
 

Lon

Well-known member
You missed some other ...
:nono: No. I didn't. You cannot undo anything Paul says simply by trying to post others. Of course you didn't. Why? Because you HAVE to post commentary to get to where you stand. Mine? Clear on their own. So, the Apostle Paul or Clefty? :think: Oddly Clefty wants to address 'me' as if I'm Paul. I posted scriptures, they were clear. Clefty is not despite his arrogance, he just isn't educated in the scriptures. Degree? Get your money back. This ain't it.

Again, me: Scripture. Clefty, unable to post without a lot of commentary. Some? I'd agree on but Clefty is 1) Other because he hates the Body of Christ so much he chose "Other." He also likes the Gospel of Thomas, sight unseen because it stokes his pet projects and peeves. Contrasts. I like them. :wave:
 

clefty

New member
It happens that living God's Love towards all others, as revealed and lived by Jesus Christ, is more than enough for me.
except you do NOT live His Love...admitted as much to me...agreed to Sabbath observance for me but NOT for Him...and on your own...but you have a no rules love most woman or man (no rules right) would reject...

Naturally, those who cannot, for one reason or another, live this unconditional lawless Love,
His Love is neither unconditional nor lawless...”For Yah so loved the world THAT Whosoever believes on Him shall not perish”...see the condition? Maybe this might help...”Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not OBEY the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” John 3:36

“And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,” Heb 5:9 see the condition?

He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it." Luke 11:28

Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear and obey what is written in it, because the time is near. Rev 1:3

3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God[a] is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

“Not everyone who says Lord! Lord!...but he who DOES the Will of My Father” Matt 7:21

“But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments” Matt 19:17

“Therefore whatever they tell you to observe that observe and do” Matt 23:3

“Pray your flight (in future times of trouble) may not be on the winter or the Sabbath” Matt 24:20 as obviously He expected both times to continue long into the future...not that you be spared or the temple saved...just that the Sabbath be a day of rest and not “run to the hills!!!”

Ok there are more but as you can see His love is NEITHER unconditional NOR lawless...


can try their best to get God's Grace by obeying, as possible, whatever is approved, in our days, as being of God's Law.
EXACTLY WRONG...we don’t earn Grace by obeying or sacrificing like pagans seeking favor or protection from wrathful gods but we obey BECAUSE WE ALREADY RECEIVED GRACE...through faith...first SAVED and then grateful OBEY...our Master...wear His yoke to represent Him...we are not some yokeless homeless Hindi cow roaming the street FREE but homeless not fed or with a purpose...

(But I also heard, so I am not sure if this is real, that if someone is among God's chosen people,
you mean by chosen Jews...or by chosen you mean whoever is doing whatever whenever claiming to represent Him but NOT His way...

“Many are called few are chosen” Matt 22:14

“Many will strive to enter and will not be able...you will knock Lord Lord open for us...I do not know you...we ate and drank in your presence you taught in our streets...I do not know you, depart from me all you workers of iniquity...You will see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of Yah and yourselves THRUST OUT.” Luke 13:24-28

So much for being “chosen” but on condition...

he has God's Grace no matter what he does).
you should compare what you hear with what is written:

3His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make EVERY effort to confirm your calling and election. For IF you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:3-11

Peter writes he will keep reminding them of this for a reason...they might forget and then:

“For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Yahushua they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 31 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit” and a “sow having washed to her wallowing in the mire”. 2 Peter 2:20-22

Might want to re-consider your “unconditional lawless” Love...as it is NOT JUST AS He loved us...
 

KerimF

New member
except you do NOT live His Love...admitted as much to me...agreed to Sabbath observance for me but NOT for Him...and on your own...but you have a no rules love most woman or man (no rules right) would reject...

Of course, the 'worldly' love HAS rules. So, I left this kind of love for others :)

Might want to re-consider your “unconditional lawless” Love...as it is NOT JUST AS He loved us...

Please tell me, which are the rules that Jesus had to follow in His life?
In practice, did Jesus judge or hate certain people?

In your opinion:
In which conditions, I shouldn't forgive who may, in one way or another, hurt me?
Which is the Law that allows me to take care of my enemies as I take care of myself and also not to fight them?

Please note that I don't expect that you can agree with me on the way I live. For instance, 'all' members of my Christian family couldn't agree as well. They had dreams of being rich and/or famous while I am more interested in being real free and independent as Jesus.
 

clefty

New member
:nono: No. I didn't.
Now you lie...thus demonstrating your claim “Law is abolished” and that “thou dost not bare false witness“ does not apply to you...as it does not describe you...

as you clearly did NOT post the entire chapter of Romans 7 much less the entire book of Hebrew or the others...

You cannot undo anything Paul says simply by trying to post others.
all scripture...to reproof...correct...the irony only the OT was available when Paul wrote that to Timothy

How do you study scripture...you claim the law was abolished: you—> “ Yet He abolished the Law, in His flesh.:pl” and way back in June 13 post #138

https://theologyonline.com/forum/pol...roversy/page10

so not only do you distort scripture but your own posting...please keep the distortion to the latter...

I shared with you Eph 2:15 was NOT the Law but the enmity Jews had against us goyim...

Even shared a photo:

temple-inscription-herodian.jpg


Can you read it? You know Greek yes? Says nothing about “no more Sabbath or eat cats rats bats and wombats”

But is an archeological find that refutes what you claim was abolished.

https://leonmauldin.blog/2010/04/01/...e-inscription/

But you now censure the use of Paul to explain Paul? Peter warned the unstable would twist Paul’s letters which he did not call “Paul’s scriptures”

Of course you didn't. Why? Because you HAVE to post commentary to get to where you stand.
“...We establish Law” Romans 3:31 “The Law is spiritual...” Romans 7:14 “For I delight in the Law of Yah according to the inward man” Romans 7:22 “I thank Yah through Yahushua our Lord! SO THEN with my mind I myself serve the Law of Yah...” Romans 7:25


You of course maintain otherwise abusing and misusing twisting his letters as Peter warned...you the unstable Wolf

Clear on their own.
Yes on their own not in your hands or interpretation...you teach the breaking of Law...a lawlessness.

So, the Apostle Paul or Clefty? :think:
let readers decide...you ignore And censure and don’t address...you seek to slander and poorly at that as well...

Oddly Clefty wants to address 'me' as if I'm Paul. I posted scriptures, they were clear. Clefty is not despite his arrogance, he just isn't educated in the scriptures. Degree? Get your money back. This ain't it.
exhibit A of your personal attacks...well we are way beyond exhibit A right coach? Filling up the alphabet let the court recognize exhibits numbered...lol

Again, me: Scripture. Clefty, unable to post without a lot of commentary.
what’s wrong with commentary..some here are so MAD at the Sabbath they use only commentary (Darby and Scofield) to claim “not for me”...Satan’s ancient M.O.

Some? I'd agree on
I have noted and hope to build on...

but Clefty is 1) Other because he hates the Body of Christ so much he chose "Other."
correcting the BOC to follow the Head is not hate but the Love He loved with correcting even the Pharisees prior...the BOC is indeed to hold on to the Head just like He taught it...modeled it...asked it to follow...PRIOR signing it and sealing it with His blood and death...and now enforced after the death of the Testator NO CHANGES ALLOWED by later false teaching

He also likes the Gospel of Thomas, sight unseen because it stokes his pet projects and peeves.

“...If they do not hear Moses and the prophets neither will they be persuaded by a non canonical text” is what I said about it.

And now you are also NOT “persuaded though One rise from the dead.” Perhaps because you do not “hear Moses being preached in every city” or “read every Sabbath” as James expected in his conclusion of the Jerusalem council. Acts 15:21.

Contrasts. I like them.
sorry not following what you are twisting here? Please clarify for clarity.

Is what you do to His word...
 

Lon

Well-known member
Now you lie....
:nono: No. I didn't. If you are capable of hearing one-single-thing from me: A Christian is a 'new' creation. The Old has passed away, yes, in a sense the WAY you would follow the Old Law (extrinsically). You've already agreed with me that everything is placed inside the believer (intrinsically).

Here's the ONE thing: If a person if filled with Christ, EVERYTHING is already there, within him/her. The Law? Met AND exceeded. The need to "Follow the Law!" from Clefty? Gone. I have it all inside. What you are arguing against (I think after a couple of weeks of assessing) is against those who name Christ but don't even keep what little is there. Our one big argument is over the Sabbath. I truly believe it ever was and is only for fellowship with God. It was a physical day (extrinsic) for Jews. It is spiritual (intrinsic) for those who have Christ in them. I cannot emphasize enough (regardless of your rejection or agreement, it is what I see in scripture), the change in law went from extrinsic to intrinsic. MANY churches today work on an extrinsic motivation. While encouragement is a wonderful thing and we can 'spurn one another on to love and good deeds' the point of chastisement (a lot of your posts) is over for everyone already in Christ. You are playing Holy Spirit and frankly getting it wrong.
 

clefty

New member
:nono: No. I didn't.
and yet again ANOTHER LIE...that "thou dost not bear false witness" does NOT describe you as it does His...I was not referencing your view or "doing of theology" but the actual fact that you LEFT OUT scriptures in your quotations...critical ones in Romans 7...

If you are capable of hearing one-single-thing from me: A Christian is a 'new' creation.
yes as the enmity was destroyed...you know THAT PHOTO YOU IGNORE...and a joining of Jew and goyim IN HIM...grafted into...adopted into...once foreign but NOW FULL CITIZEN OF ISRAEL...His Law still inside the inner Jew...the circumcised heart...not a NEW LAW or A Son's UPDATED VERSION...same Law as it was when the ekklesia was in the wilderness...ONE LAW for native and foreigner ALIKE...as SPECIFICALLY in the Sabbath commandment...INCLUSIVE of the stranger...

The Old has passed away, yes, in a sense the WAY you would follow the Old Law (extrinsically).
do you tell your wife when she finds you in bed with another "marriage doesn't bind extrinsically but intrinsically I am still faithful" LOL comedy tour awaits you

that is funnier than Pryor's "woman you believe your lying eyes?"....

how about your neighbor that catches you stealing his car "but intrinsically I believe it is still yours" LOL...

You've already agreed with me that everything is placed inside the believer (intrinsically).
AGAIN YOU LIE...I SHOWED what you skip ignore reject...Romans 7:14 "the Law is spiritual"..."inner Jew" "circumcised hearts"

as if you were to be agreed with by what you claimed "the Law is abolished!!!...passed away...NOT FOR US"...LOL...and now slyly change your tune the goal posts and argument...to puff yourself up....

You don't even believe EVERYTHING IS placed inside the believer as you leave the Sabbath out...

Here's the ONE thing: If a person if filled with Christ, EVERYTHING is already there, within him/her. The Law? Met AND exceeded.
except for you the Sabbath...oh and as demonstrated the “don't LIE” commandment...as you keep breaking the "thou dost NOT bare false witness"

which is one of those 10 which describes those who are His...INTRINSICALLY AND EXTRINSICALLY...

you think Paul would even CARE if his flesh SINNED and BROUGHT DEATH? if he taught "oh its just an intrinsic thingy" he admitted he was at WAR with his flesh which was making him do the things he HATED...but with his mind he desired to keep the Law...

The need to "Follow the Law!" from Clefty? Gone.
that is NOT my teaching but HIS...

I have it all inside.
except keeping a seventh DAY of rest Holy...oh and LYING...prolly eat Sunday Ham after power hour too...as if that is WWJD?

What you are arguing against (I think after a couple of weeks of assessing) is against those who name Christ but don't even keep what little is there. Our one big argument is over the Sabbath. I truly believe it ever was and is only for fellowship with God.
well duh...but we took a detour and now because of sin we cant walk with Him in the garden...as we would be doing if well...you know...someone else had NOT deceived herself by ADDING TO THE LAW...assisted by a LYING LIAR that is MAD and teaches "oh that is NOT FOR YOU"...and seeks to replace Him "you will be wise..."

well wise guy nice going you don't wish to FELLOWSHIP with Yah as you maintain a false worship...which is idolatry and an abomination to Him...

it was INTRINSICALLY uncircumcised hearts that ADDED to His Word and proceed to build EXTRINSICALLY a golden calf to worship Him...just as you do...

It was a physical day (extrinsic) for Jews.
now not only do you LIE you make HIM a Liar as it was made for MAN...not just Jews...given TO ISRAEL both native and foreigner the ONLY COMMANDMENT to include the stranger...YOU believe the false witness of Jews who slanderously claimed a teaching that Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered. Luke was clear Stephen did NOT teach that.

It is spiritual (intrinsic) for those who have Christ in them.
"BUT HONESTLY honey I know I was in bed with her EXTRINSICALLY but you are still INTRINSICALLY MY WIFE"...LOL...yeah good luck bro...

"BUT COACH...I know I was running the wrong way and fouling other players but INSTRINSICALLY I was scoring yo!!!" LOL...you are fun

I cannot emphasize enough (regardless of your rejection or agreement, it is what I see in scripture),
well fine...ignore censure ignore but stop MISREPRESENTING HIM HIS WAY...

the change in law went from extrinsic to intrinsic.
what of good works befitting repentance? what of that encouragement to remain faithful and persevere and overcome...bear FRUITS to witness by behavior and action...what of the weaker faith brother we are NOT to cause to STUMBLE by our actions...or falsely teach to break the little jots and tittles with flowery boastful words robbing them of their reward

HEAR AND DO is thundered in the OT and NT...but "nawwww I'm good.. intrinsically...resting everyday"....LOL

MANY churches today work on an extrinsic motivation.
mostly to do works of MAN'S traditions...

While encouragement is a wonderful thing and we can 'spurn one another on to love and good deeds'
Love AS He did and not as the world does...and do the DEEDS HE prepared before for us to do...and not what we prescribed ourselves to do and then cry LORD LORD did we not do?

the point of chastisement (a lot of your posts) is over for everyone already in Christ.
your fruits REVEAL you are NOT in Christ...as you continue to claim faith is enough...not with works...

You are playing Holy Spirit and frankly getting it wrong.
fruits reveal...He knows His own...IF you Love Him and claim Him...LOVE AND LIVE AS HE DID...Spirit leads us into FULFILLING HIS LAW not coming up with clever rationalizing or into getting MAD...with a juvenile rebellion "nawww not for me"

that is EXACTLY Satan's ancient M.O. who also believes INTRINSICALLY that Yahushua is the Son of Yah and Savior but does NOT follow the Spirit into extrinsically work or bear fruits of that intrinsic belief and knowing...

but he works tirelessly to have His deceived both intrinsically and extrinsically...and with teachings like yours that what is extrinsic matters not...
 
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clefty

New member
Of course, the 'worldly' love HAS rules. So, I left this kind of love for others :)
you sound young...perhaps get back to us when you are actually in a love relationship with a man or woman...committed and responsible...or perhaps remain single...

if scripture and His teaching and example can not bring you into understanding and proper fellowship perhaps out there in the world may teach you and drive you back...as Paul taught 1 Cor 5:6 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord. 6Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough?

following up with verse 8
"Therefore let us keep the feast, not with the old bread, leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and of truth."

You as most miss there is a place and time for us to fellowship differently with each other...AS HE DID...

but your boasting needs to be seperated before it leavens the whole of the batch rendering it useless to worship Him [quioteand be grateful for BEING passed over by His wrath at sin...our disobedience...




Please tell me, which are the rules that Jesus had to follow in His life?
Sabbath is just one of them...begin with that...give yourself a day off...to study the rest...and the rest of the ones He kept to Love us...


In practice, did Jesus judge or hate certain people?
He judged some in need of healing judged others strong in faith others He judged to be removed from the House of Prayer as they like you sought personal gain and profit making up their own rules...

Hate? well He spoke harshly to those that like you taught other than His Father's will but devised clever schemes to not go into the kingdom themselves and to keep others from doing so...He also HATED the hypocrisy of those that outside were one way but inside another...or taught one way but then DID another...Hated those that dared to hurt the little ones better a millstone hung around their necks and to be cast into the deepest sea...than to hurt a little one...you know teach them a "no rules love" like even pedophile priests did...AND by their sexual abuse...

I could go on and on...but am I work...there are even rules about how long I can share helpful tips to others in need...

In your opinion:
In which conditions, I shouldn't forgive who may, in one way or another, hurt me?
Which is the Law that allows me to take care of my enemies as I take care of myself and also not to fight them?
Love your enemies to be sure but do not aid in their self destruction...with false teaching or causing them to stumble

Please note that I don't expect that you can agree with me on the way I live. For instance, 'all' members of my Christian family couldn't agree as well. They had dreams of being rich and/or famous while I am more interested in being real free and independent as Jesus.

"Not MY will be done but Thine" reveals He was not here for Himself free and independent...

you really are drowning in the milk of all this...milkshakes even...and NOT in the meat...

Yahushua lived according to LAW and His Father's WILL...and HATED the "no rules NOT FOR ME" spirit of someone else who thinks as you...who fell from heaven long ago...wanting what you want...freedom and independence...and NOT that the Father's will be done...the Law of His kingdom...
 
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KerimF

New member
you sound young...

Yes, I was young 60 years ago.

It is clear that we both heard of Jesus.
But we, you and I, can't change the fact that we know/view Him from two totally different angles.

So even by writing a million posts and till we die (I wish you have a long happy life), our different views will never change :D

This is why you never see me convincing someone about something... I just say what I have in mind. Why? This helps me know better myself :)
 

clefty

New member
Yes, I was young 60 years ago.
so you’ve been at this awhile...

It is clear that we both heard of Jesus.
But we, you and I, can't change the fact that we know/view Him from two totally different angles.
or even if He is the same Master...

So even by writing a million posts and till we die (I wish you have a long happy life), our different views will never change :D
yup...this aint for everyone...oh and thanks...pray for me my narrow path His yoke to wear a cross to bear...still need Him His Grace and don’t wish to cause you to stumble...

even Paul despite reasoning about righteousness, self-control, and the judgement to come Acts 24:25 knew that Yah at times blinks at our idolatry...but does now command ALL men everywhere to repent for the judgement of the world in righteousness is coming Act 17:30-31...is WHY to save even one and the group he instructs 1 Cor 5:5...ironically that individual too like you had a “no rules love”...taboo even to gentiles...LOL

But even Paul knew this was not for everyone...remembering that many left Him His Way too as it was too hard to follow John 6:66...But though rejected Paul still wished to Yah that all who heard him “might become both almost and altogether such as I am, except for these chains” Acts 26:29...chains he put on himself daring to NOT compromise but to live and love JUST AS his Master...



This is why you never see me convincing someone about something... I just say what I have in mind. Why? This helps me know better myself :)
understood...hope I answered your questions...just speaking your mind to continue to “know better myself” does makes sense...as your “no rules love” pursuing a “Lawless Kingdom”...is indeed more about your sayings, your mind, yourself, than Him His Way...
 
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KerimF

New member
or even if He is the same Master...

As you say, you see Jesus as a Master while I see in Him my best Teacher about life (this is why I became sure that He is indeed my Creator... though unified with the Father in Heaven by the Holy Spirit).

So, it is natural that you feel the need to obey a certain Law to please Him (the Master) while I walk under the Light of Knowledge; the knowledge of many crucial natural truths for which Jesus came in a human flesh to reveal them in person.
 

Lon

Well-known member
or even if He is the same Master...
Ah, look there. It isn't just me, but your modus operandi :plain: Fooling anybody? :nono: You've been accurately assessed and tag "Other." Your theology prowess is amateur. I've read your threads. You just aren't any kind of theology guru and nowhere near a good few on TOL who are far and away better than you at the things of God. This is my degree, so of course I am pretty good at assessment. You stink. Sorry, I know you think you are really something. :nono: Not at all.

even Paul ... knew that Yah ...LOL
Seen your 'Greek' presentations. You, sir, have NO Greek skills. At all. :plain:

understood...hope I answered your questions...just speaking your mind to continue to “know better myself” does makes sense...as your “no rules love” pursuing a “Lawless Kingdom”...is indeed more about your sayings, your mind, yourself, than Him His Way...
Yeah, you are not his or anybody's judge. Get over your small self.

how about your neighbor that catches you stealing his car "but intrinsically I believe it is still yours" LOL...
Frankly? Words without intelligence. You are saying foolish things that come out of your head and show your complete ignorance. Sorry "Other" fact.

AGAIN YOU LIE...I SHOWED
One of us surely is. I'm not "Other" so I don't really care what you think is true. You are wrong and that's the end. You aren't bright by the above offering so, frankly, you aren't a pip on God's radar for anybody. You can posture as much as you like, push as many people away as you are doing already, all over TOL, as you like. So and what? You are forgotten. A nobody "Other." Fact.

as if you were to be agreed with by what you claimed "the Law is abolished!!!...passed away...NOT FOR US"...LOL...and now slyly change your tune the goal posts and argument...to puff yourself up....
▲See that accusation above? One of us is lying. I said the law was "superceded." So, you are either dumb, or lying, right? No other options, right?
You don't even believe EVERYTHING IS placed inside the believer as you leave the Sabbath out...
YOU think that. YOU do. Not true, but it doesn't stop you. You got so sick of it, you chose "Other" but did you ever stop and think that you just aren't that bright? That they were telling you something, and just the same as with me, you, "not-so-bright" got it wrong? You never thought that? :think:
except for you the Sabbath...oh and as demonstrated the “don't LIE” commandment...as you keep breaking the "thou dost NOT bare false witness"
Pot, Kettle. Black. Log. Eye. Remove it. Mirror. You. Own it.
which is one of those 10 which describes those who are His...INTRINSICALLY AND EXTRINSICALLY...
The O.T. were extrinsically given. Look, if you are incapable of comprehending the New Testament, just say so. Remember from the get go: "Functional Jew?" Remember me telling you that? Do you want to be a Jew? Actually a Christian? Or is "Other" (than "Christ-like" :doh: ) just fine for you? Other what, c Lefty????

you think Paul would even CARE if his flesh SINNED and BROUGHT DEATH? if he taught "oh its just an intrinsic thingy" he admitted he was at WAR with his flesh which was making him do the things he HATED...but with his mind he desired to keep the Law...
Ah, "intrinsic thingy.' Gotcha. You can't understand the thigns of the spirit so don't know Him dwelling 'within' (intrinsically making us in His image). Instead of asking all your WAY more brilliant teachers and pastors, you chose "Other." You're 'brilliant.' Or do we mean "Other?" :plain:

that is NOT my teaching but HIS...
:nono: Not at all, "Other." Not even a little bit. You are walking, according to this, in your flesh and you are certainly doing a ton of this with me in that flesh. You aren't showing 'righteous' angst. You are showing "Clefty bitter and angry" angst.

except keeping a seventh DAY of rest Holy...oh and LYING...prolly eat Sunday Ham after power hour too...as if that is WWJD?
Flesh CANNOT follow Spirit, "Other." You cannot please God in your flesh. Trying to keep laws, in your flesh, is not Christianity. It is absolutely "Other."

I'm going to have to put you on ignore where you will stay. I simply cannot bring you up, and I'm VERY unwilling to go down any further than here. My goal on TOL is to bring others up. If I cannot? The answer has to be us no longer speaking. I'm just not evaluating any good that CAN happen between us. Scriptures are the only thing and you can get them from someone else. We don't have any kind of meaningfulness between us that can do spiritual good. I've got to shake dust. -Lon
 
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clefty

New member
Ah, look there. It isn't just me, but your modus operandi :plain: Fooling anybody? :nono:
lol...so you stand with one who claims a “no rules love” and a “lawless kingdom”...birds of a feather...no surprise...

You've been accurately assessed and tag "Other." Your theology prowess is amateur. I've read your threads. You just aren't any kind of theology guru and nowhere near a good few on TOL who are far and away better than you at the things of God. This is my degree, so of course I am pretty good at assessment. You stink. Sorry, I know you think you are really something. :nono: Not at all.
yawn...seriously coach...I am sure you have a high degree...feverish...hallucinatory

Seen your 'Greek' presentations. You, sir, have NO Greek skills. At all. :plain:
and now your red marker bleeds into other threads to other posters...LOL...and wut cuz I said blinked instead of winked? LOL happily Yah has more toleration than you you sore inquisitional Pharisee grabbing at straws...You played sports yeah coach? when does the opposing side do that? Cry foul appeal to refs point out phantoms complain of field or crowd or conditions solicit fan sympathy? talk this much about “other” and not his own game...lol




Yeah, you are not his or anybody's judge. Get over your small self.
awww coach you sore...stay focused on your own game ok?

Frankly? Words without intelligence. You are saying foolish things that come out of your head and show your complete ignorance. Sorry "Other" fact.
I note you did not pick the “in bed with another” too close to home? LOL

so now what...intrinsic vs extrinsic debate? How about a teaching aid

2795384-differences-between-extrinsic-and-intrinsic-motivation-5ae76997c5542e0039088559.png


So can you apply that to your application of Law which is put within the hearts and minds of the inner Jew the circumcised hearts?

you insist that the WAY we keep the Law extrinsically is passed...so the way we don’t steal or don’t commit adultery or don’t kill or don’t lie has changed? Or the way we don’t worship another god or when...obviously...all passed? You Do demonstrate that...

And yet “everything is placed inside the believer“ odd...so same imput but different output...suddenly a seventh day of rest becomes every day rest...fascinating...so when is the work six days part? I mean even pagans rest every day...when they go to sleep

One of us surely is.
you are as you lied when you said you did not miss anything and I showed you the Romans 7 texts you did miss...and yet here and now AGAIN...especially as Paul teaches the Law is spiritual and thus intrinsically places causing extrinsic change

I'm not "Other" so I don't really care what you think is true.
historically truth by yours is not sought that is true

You are wrong and that's the end. You aren't bright by the above offering so, frankly, you aren't a pip on God's radar for anybody. You can posture as much as you like, push as many people away as you are doing already, all over TOL, as you like. So and what? You are forgotten. A nobody "Other." Fact.
don’t break that gavel your pounding or burn yourself in that fire you starting


▲See that accusation above? One of us is lying. I said the law was "superceded." So, you are either dumb, or lying, right? No other options, right?
not there you didn’t you said “met and exceeded” Having changed from what you said earlier “ it was abolished” “passed away” “ not for us”...even INTRINSICALLY met does not the Law was extrinsically eliminated and exceeding the Law certainly does not either...as if Yahushua meant killing was ok as long as you don’t get angry at your brother...or adultery was ok as long as you don’t look at her lustfully...LOL

if you are supercessionist you, as most do, still leave the seventh day Sabbath out...Claiming the promise of Israel having changed its Laws is boastful and warned against as that antichrist spirit to change both times and laws...


YOU think that. YOU do. Not true, but it doesn't stop you. You got so sick of it, you chose "Other" but did you ever stop and think that you just aren't that bright? That they were telling you something, and just the same as with me, you, "not-so-bright" got it wrong? You never thought that? :think:
“here are they” that do what Keep the commandments of Yah“ except the Sabbath one which is now everyday any day...“and the faith OF Yahushua“ Who is no longer Lord of the Sabbath as it turns out it was Abolished not for all man but just Jews and now just rest everyday...

That is not bright...you believe Jewish false witness that Jesus changed the customs Moses delivered...

Pot, Kettle. Black. Log. Eye. Remove it. Mirror. You. Own it.
Isaiah is clear Sabbath to Sabbath in the new world to come...ALL will worship except you...”not for me”

The O.T. were extrinsically given. Look, if you are incapable of comprehending the New Testament, just say so. Remember from the get go: "Functional Jew?" Remember me telling you that? Do you want to be a Jew? Actually a Christian? Or is "Other" (than "Christ-like" :doh: ) just fine for you? Other what, c Lefty????
easy there coach...don’t get so triggered...game book says “inner Jew” “circumcised heart” “citizen of Israel” “grafted into” “His Lae into hearts and minds” nothing there about a new superseding improved Law...

Again Coach with the brain damaging head smacks...Christlike is what? like Christ or NOT LIKE as you minus the Sabbath keeping He does to exemplify and teaches...even instructing Prayers be prayed that the Sabbath be kept in the future times of trouble...not prayers the temple by spared or believers be preserved but that the Sabbath be kept...

NO OTHER LAW was so revered...that a day remain remembered as Holy...

Ah, "intrinsic thingy.' Gotcha. You can't understand the thigns of the spirit so don't know Him dwelling 'within' (intrinsically making us in His image).
LOL making us in His image is having us DO AS HE DID...but noooo you insist OTHER...LOL “I rest every day“ the arrogant abomination of idolatrous golden calf FALSE WORSHIP

“I love Jesus“...without keeping His commandments or living as He did...“I hear but don’t have to do” pathetic

Satan does the very same...belief without obedience...knowing He is the Son of Yah but NOT following...NOT become more like Him...

Instead of asking all your WAY more brilliant teachers and pastors, you chose "Other." You're 'brilliant.' Or do we mean "Other?" :plain:
false teachers may be brilliant but false light often is...you attack me because you hate Him...is understood...His light to dull and blinded eyes is painful...

:nono: Not at all, "Other." Not even a little bit. You are walking, according to this, in your flesh and you are certainly doing a ton of this with me in that flesh. You aren't showing 'righteous' angst. You are showing "Clefty bitter and angry" angst.
law is spiritual and we establish it...you establish another...from another christ another gospel...one without the seventh day rest a sign of His sabbatismos people


Flesh CANNOT follow Spirit, "Other." You cannot please God in your flesh. Trying to keep laws, in your flesh, is not Christianity. It is absolutely "Other."
Paul argues exactly opposite admits his failure but more so his desire to keep it in his flesh to perfect become righteous holy separate peculiar NOT of this world but His...not to become saved but because he was saved and no longed to be more like Him...not you...

I'm going to have to put you on ignore where you will stay. I simply cannot bring you up, and I'm VERY unwilling to go down any further than here. My goal on TOL is to bring others up. If I cannot? The answer has to be us no longer speaking. I'm just not evaluating any good that CAN happen between us. Scriptures are the only thing and you can get them from someone else. We don't have any kind of meaningfulness between us that can do spiritual good. I've got to shake dust. -Lon
You teach the breaking of law...you do not go in and keep others from doing so...you claim Him without living as He did...Sabbath was made for man...perhaps you are not man enough?

It is not Lord! Lord! but those that DO the Will of His Father...may He blink at your idolatry but know now is the time to repent...turn back to Him His ways...not your own clever golden calf false worship...Sabbath to Sabbath said Isaiah...

Don’t hate the game coach...
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Grace fulfilled the Law. Christ by the Grace of God has met all the requirements needed to satisfy Gods Law and Justice for His People. Rom 8:3-4

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
 
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