Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture?

oatmeal

Well-known member
One of the aspects of reading and studying scripture that I have enjoyed and benefited from is comparing popular sayings to what scripture to find out if these popular ideas are actually rooted in scripture as some might say.

Several examples are listed here.

1. "money is the root of all evil"

Can that phrase be found in scripture?

Yes,

But is that what scripture teaches?

Not at all.

I Timothy 6:10

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

But is that the intent of the scripture? obviously not.

The complete phrase says

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

There is a huge difference between the two quotes, the two phrases

2. There is no God

Can you quote that from scripture?

Yes, of course you can.

You can quote that statement from Psalm 14:1

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

However only a fool would suggest that this quote is the intent of God's statement here in Psalms 14

3. God is in control

What is God in control of? Everything? if so, then we end up blaming God for evil, but God is good always

The Devil is bad always

God is in control and the source of all good,

Any other popular phrases that you can offer and show what scriptures actually say on the subject?
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings oatmeal,
One of the aspects of reading and studying scripture that I have enjoyed and benefited from is comparing popular sayings to what scripture to find out if these popular ideas are actually rooted in scripture as some might say.
Several examples are listed here.
Instead of adding new items, a few comments on two subjects that you mentioned.
1. "money is the root of all evil" Can that phrase be found in scripture? Yes,
But is that what scripture teaches? Not at all.
I Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
But is that the intent of the scripture? obviously not.
The complete phrase says
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
There is a huge difference between the two quotes, the two phrases
Yes, but does this rule out the popular prosperity doctrine.
3. God is in control
What is God in control of? Everything? if so, then we end up blaming God for evil, but God is good always
The Devil is bad always
God is in control and the source of all good,
How do you understand the following?:
Isaiah 45:7 (KJV): I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

God is in control and the source of all good,
How do you understand the extreme circumstances brought upon Job which Job and the record attributes to God?
Job 1:20–22 (KJV): 20 Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped, 21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD. 22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
Job 42:11 (KJV): Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

God was in control of the sufferings of Job.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Saying: Spare the rod: spoil the child.

Scripture: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."

While not much different, I know that today we have a lot of spoiled children who grew up being hated by their parents.
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Yes, but does this rule out the popular prosperity doctrine.
I believe that God wants us to prosper and be in health.

Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. -- 3John 1:2

I don't believe that John was more loving than God. God longs to give us The Kingdom:

Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

He wants to give us the desires of our hearts (the good ones):

Delight thyself also in the Lord: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings again oatmeal,
One of the aspects of reading and studying scripture that I have enjoyed and benefited from is comparing popular sayings to what scripture to find out if these popular ideas are actually rooted in scripture as some might say.
Any other popular phrases that you can offer and show what scriptures actually say on the subject?
2 Peter 1:20 (KJV): Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
This is used by the Roman Catholic Church and some other denominations to dismiss interpretation by other individuals apart from the hierarchy of their own Church or organisation.

The context and meaning of 2 Peter 1:20 is speaking about the inspiration of the prophets and the next verse clarifies this:
2 Peter 1:21 (KJV): For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

The margin of the NKJV gives a better alternative for “private interpretation” as “private origin”. The following translation also conveys this meaning:
2 Peter 1:20–21 (NET): 20 Above all, you do well if you recognize this: No prophecy of scripture ever comes about by the prophet’s own imagination, 21 for no prophecy was ever borne of human impulse; rather, men carried along by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings Aimiel,
I believe that God wants us to prosper and be in health.
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. -- 3John 1:2
I don't believe that John was more loving than God. God longs to give us The Kingdom:
Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
He wants to give us the desires of our hearts (the good ones):
Delight thyself also in the Lord: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
3 John 1:2 is not speaking of financial wealth.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Greetings Aimiel, 3 John 1:2 is not speaking of financial wealth.

Kind regards
Trevor
You can't 'prosper' without cash, at least not yet. :duh:

By saying He wants us to prosper: God means that He wants us to lend and not borrow and to give, not expecting anything in return. That's the kind of love He shows us and wants us to show others. To do so we have to prosper, financially and be in good health. He is NOT the author of poverty, in spite of what many have taught over the centuries. It is true that we are NOT to love money or 'quick riches' as many do (pyramid scams, etc.) but we are to expect that God will prosper us and do every single thing that we do as if we are doing it for Him (we are, in fact). We serve Him by being honest, faithful over what He gives us and giving to those in need that we find.
 
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TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings again Aimiel,
You can't 'prosper' without cash, at least not yet. :duh:
By saying He wants us to prosper: God means that He wants us to lend and not borrow and to give, not expecting anything in return. That's the kind of love He shows us and wants us to show others. To do so we have to prosper, financially and be in good health. He is NOT the author of poverty, in spite of what many have taught over the centuries. It is true that we are NOT to love money or 'quick riches' as many do (pyramid scams, etc.) but we are to expect that God will prosper us and do every single thing that we do as if we are doing it for Him (we are, in fact). We serve Him by being honest, faithful over what He gives us and giving to those in need that we find.
You continue to talk in monetary terms, but Peter and John prospered in the following incident without cash:

Acts 3:1-6: 1 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour. 2 And a certain man lame from his mother’s womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple; 3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms. 4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us. 5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them. 6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

A story I heard once, is that a Catholic Priest said to the Pope about the “first Pope” Peter: We are a bit different today in contrast to Peter who said: “Silver and gold have I none”. The Pope answered and said, neither can we say to a cripple: “rise up and walk”. The same can be said of the many denominations that preach the prosperity doctrine and claim some form of tongues and healing.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Greetings again Aimiel, You continue to talk in monetary terms, but Peter and John prospered in the following incident without cash: Acts 3:1-6: 1 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour. 2 And a certain man lame from his mother’s womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple; 3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms. 4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us. 5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them. 6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
In their zeal for Christ and the youth of the early church they assumed a form of Socialism and soon abandoned it. This passage doesn't make prosperity into poverty. It's merely a statement Peter made while operating as early Christians did: giving in charity to one another.
A story I heard once, is that a Catholic Priest said to the Pope about the “first Pope” Peter: We are a bit different today in contrast to Peter who said: “Silver and gold have I none”. The Pope answered and said, neither can we say to a cripple: “rise up and walk”. The same can be said of the many denominations that preach the prosperity doctrine and claim some form of tongues and healing.
Peter was an apostle. One of the first twelve. There have been many thousands of apostle since him. He was never a Pope and the Roman Catholic Church attempts to put that office on him (which isn't Biblical at all) so that their 'authority' can be flaunted. The many who profess Christianity but follow religion instead of Christ are the biggest part of the reason that the Body of Christ isn't performing miracles. Dispensationisms are an invention of men like yourself: religious claptrap. We have fallen away from the Message and from the Cross. Taking those for granted and ignoring their significance and the needs of those who are lost has cause us to lose our way. Jesus could not perform miracles in His own home town due to un-belief. If He walked the earth today, I'm sure His Ministry would be crippled, as well, by phony religious hypocrites such as Catholics and Methodists and many, many other denominations which are famous for their un-belief.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Saying: Spare the rod: spoil the child.

Scripture: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."

While not much different, I know that today we have a lot of spoiled children who grew up being hated by their parents.

That is a good one. Parents that do not care enough to correct their children are not doing anyone a favor. They are actually doing a disservice, even harm, not only to the child but to anyone the child can effect. the parents are doing themselves a disservice as well.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Greetings oatmeal, Instead of adding new items, a few comments on two subjects that you mentioned.
Yes, but does this rule out the popular prosperity doctrine.
How do you understand the following?:
Isaiah 45:7 (KJV): I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

How do you understand the extreme circumstances brought upon Job which Job and the record attributes to God?
Job 1:20–22 (KJV): 20 Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped, 21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD. 22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
Job 42:11 (KJV): Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

God was in control of the sufferings of Job.

Kind regards
Trevor

Great questions!

The verses you point out and the verses I pointed out would seem to be contradictory at the very least.

For instance:

God is light and in him is no darkness at all I John 1:5

in contrast to

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness, make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things

One the first things we must acknowledge is that scripture has passages that are literal and passages that are figurative.

Thus we have a challenge to our rightly dividing the word of truth for we must learn to distinguish which passages are literal and grammatically correct and which verses are not literal or deviate from standard grammatical practices.

For example, in grade school, I was taught the figure of speech simile. A simile is a figure of speech, a non literal expresssion, used for comparison, that can be identified by the use of the words "like" or "as" in its structure.

One verse found early in scripture is

Genesis 25:25
And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.

Was Esau wearing a hairy garment? No, absolutely not. To take this passage literally would be ridiculous, Infants are born naked, they are not wearing clothes as they leave the mother's womb.

The point of the phrase is to emphasize how red and hairy Esau was when he was born. He must have been an unusual sight indeed.

From Matthew we read:

Matthew 3:16
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Was the Spirit of God literally a dove? No, it was like a dove. How was it like a dove? Matthew seems to be referring to its manner of descent, not its bodily form.

However, is that the only characteristic that is being compared?

Luke is more specific. It makes specific reference to its bodily form

Luke 3:22
And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Are the two verses contradictory? Not at all, both are true. The Spirit of God that descended upon Jesus Christ not only looked like a dove but likewise descended like a dove. It did not drop like a stone from heaven onto Jesus Christ, it did not crash into him, like an object dropped or thrown, It lighted gently upon him.

With the above illustrations in mind we can take another step forward. There are multitudes of other figures of speech used in scripture.

Another figure of speech used in scripture is idiom. An idiom is a phrase used in a particular culture to express an idea. The phrase is not literal but is used in that culture to express a specific idea or ideas that are not literally transmitted by the words used.

Maybe you are familiar with the American expression euphimistically referring to someone's death. "He bought the farm" Taken literally, there is no possible way a foreigner would equate the literal meaning of those words with someone dying yet, there it is. Somehow for some Americans, "buying a farm" is equivalent in meaning to "death" Ridiculous, but there it is. There is a transition in the context where it does communicate, but explaining would take too much time and space and effort.

One of the Hebrew idioms used in scripture is the idiom of permission. That is, a person is attributed with being the cause of an action where in fact, they only permitted it to happen. In our culture, we see this happen in lawsuits. Someone might be injured at work and the plaintiffs lawyer blames the employer for the accident yet the blame could fall squarely on the mistakes of the injured person. They took a risk and they got injured, even against company policy, yet the employer ends up paying medical costs and may actually end up paying punitive damages. Is that just? If the employee was actually at fault for the injury why should the employer pay at all? That is our system.

Likewise we see God taking the responsibility for activities that He did not do but happened "under His watch" so to speak. God even foresaw the problem but let it happen. Why would God let it happen? Because God gave people free will and God does not inhibit people from exercising that free will even if exercising it causes damage to themselves and others. God refers to those ill begotten actions as sin. We willfully sin and God lets us do it because God takes responsibility for giving us the ability to choose.

God did not literally create evil but allowed those with free will to deviate from good thus they initiated evil. The absence of good in part or in whole is evil. Taken to an extreme, that absence is the opposite of good.

As far as darkness is concerned, the same is the case.

(it might be worthy to point out that darkness as in the absence of literal light, ie, photons. is not always a bad thing. God made provision for both night and day back in Genesis 1. Night is a time of rest and sleep for most people. It is easier to sleep in darkness than to sleep with your face facing the noonday sun. We must look at context to determine the meaning of words in certain situations)

One other example is noteworthy

Exodus 7:3
And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.

It would seem that God claims that He will Himself harden Pharaoh's heart. Yet, it is God's will that all men be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. I Timothy 2:4.

I see this many times on this website. Someone points out a clear verse and someone of a different beliefe rejects that verse and harden's their heart against that truth.

Pharaoh was confronted with the truth and rejected it, Pharaoh himself chose to harden his heart against the truth. God foresaw this and declared it would happen. Some people prefer darkness over light, so they harden themselves against the light. John 3:14-21 especially verses 19-21

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


That is a lot of info but that is why we study God's word, to learn and do.


There are more reasons that we seem to see God being blamed for evil However, for brevity I will not go there now.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Greetings again oatmeal,
2 Peter 1:20 (KJV): Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
This is used by the Roman Catholic Church and some other denominations to dismiss interpretation by other individuals apart from the hierarchy of their own Church or organisation.

The context and meaning of 2 Peter 1:20 is speaking about the inspiration of the prophets and the next verse clarifies this:
2 Peter 1:21 (KJV): For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

The margin of the NKJV gives a better alternative for “private interpretation” as “private origin”. The following translation also conveys this meaning:
2 Peter 1:20–21 (NET): 20 Above all, you do well if you recognize this: No prophecy of scripture ever comes about by the prophet’s own imagination, 21 for no prophecy was ever borne of human impulse; rather, men carried along by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

Kind regards
Trevor

Yes, those are good things to keep in mind

Does that contradict the idea that we are not to privately interpret scripture in searching out the meaning of scripture?

Not at all, if anything your points reinforce the idea that our interpretations of scripture are to be avoided. It is indeed foolish to think that my opinions matter in the least. They do not matter at all.

Who is the author of scripture? You? Me? Denominations? Did the apostle Paul author scripture? Did Peter author scripture? No, God is the sole author of scripture.

If we have any humility at all, we will avoid inserting our preconceived notions, our emotions, our experiences, our favorite theologies, our denominations theologies into scripture.

To have any interpretation of scripture of our own is to deny God's authorship and His wisdom, knowledge understanding......

I have learned to avoid interpreting scripture all together. I have been taught to and learned to let it speak for itself
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Greetings again Aimiel, You continue to talk in monetary terms, but Peter and John prospered in the following incident without cash:
Acts 3:1-6: 1 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour. 2 And a certain man lame from his mother’s womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple; 3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms. 4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us. 5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them. 6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

A story I heard once, is that a Catholic Priest said to the Pope about the “first Pope” Peter: We are a bit different today in contrast to Peter who said: “Silver and gold have I none”. The Pope answered and said, neither can we say to a cripple: “rise up and walk”. The same can be said of the many denominations that preach the prosperity doctrine and claim some form of tongues and healing.

Kind regards
Trevor

To proper in III John 2 literally means to be led in a good way.

Is poverty a good way?

I understand your objection to the radicalism of some "prosperity" preachers. God will not solely about financial gain. There are many other categories of life besides finances. To overemphasize finances over other issues like health or mercy or doing the word, or love is fool hardy. As believers we must determine what our need is at a particular time in life. If I cannot afford to purchase a Bible or a computer so I can participate in a Biblical discussion on Theology on line, maybe I should believe God to prosper so I can have my need met. Is having a reliable computer and internet access a need? or is it greed? Is it something you can justify or is it in the realm of "properity" preaching?

Does God supply our need according to His poverty and lack?

No, but according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus!

Philippians 4:19

But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

Is God poverty stricken?

Psalm 50:10
For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

Peter and John were not poverty stricken. The simplest answer is that they did not literally have any cash on them at the moment.

When we dig deeper, history and culture of the times indicate that that particular gate was occupied by people seeking healing. Alms not being a request for money, but a request for healing, in that particular scenario.

If indeed poverty is God's will then why did God bless Solomon and others with abundant riches.

If you are to give to the poor, yet you have nothing to give, how can you give something you do not have.

There are references in scripture of people including Jesus Christ advocating giving to the poor. Poor means both spiritually poor and financially poor.

Abraham was a wealthy man. Joseph in Genesis brought increase to those he served.

There are many examples of believers who were financially prosperous. God blessed them with that prosperity because they loved and obeyed God.
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings again oatmeal,
3. God is in control
What is God in control of? Everything? if so, then we end up blaming God for evil, but God is good always
The Devil is bad always
God is in control and the source of all good,
I appreciate your lengthy responses, but one of your statements that I was questioning is whether the bad circumstances in life should be attributed to the devil and the good circumstances to God. Much of what you say in the following Post I agree with, but I will state a few things, possibly disagreeing with your bad/good definitions above.

Was the Spirit of God literally a dove? No, it was like a dove. How was it like a dove? Matthew seems to be referring to its manner of descent, not its bodily form.
I would like to comment on this first as this is part of the sequence of your Post. Yes, it was the manner of descent, but I also suggest that a dove suggests the dove of peace with Noah’s ark, and also the dove used in sacrifice, and the general character of the dove, gentleness and similar. We have many pigeons that feed on my bird dish, but one larger variety, the white breasted bush pigeon is very placid, and when they first appeared they allowed me to stand right next to them.


Likewise we see God taking the responsibility for activities that He did not do but happened "under His watch" so to speak. God even foresaw the problem but let it happen. Why would God let it happen? Because God gave people free will and God does not inhibit people from exercising that free will even if exercising it causes damage to themselves and others. God refers to those ill begotten actions as sin. We willfully sin and God lets us do it because God takes responsibility for giving us the ability to choose.

God did not literally create evil but allowed those with free will to deviate from good thus they initiated evil. The absence of good in part or in whole is evil. Taken to an extreme, that absence is the opposite of good.
To use your expression, let us take one step further, I suggest that God not only allows things to happen under his watch, but he uses them to accomplish his purpose. Two examples of this is the judgement by God on Israel and Judah by the Assyrians and Babylonians:

Isaiah 7:17 (KJV): The LORD shall bring upon thee, and upon thy people, and upon thy father’s house, days that have not come, from the day that Ephraim departed from Judah; even the king of Assyria.

Isaiah 8:7-8 (KJV): 7 Now therefore, behold, the Lord bringeth up upon them the waters of the river, strong and many, even the king of Assyria, and all his glory: and he shall come up over all his channels, and go over all his banks: 8 And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel.

Habakkuk 1:5-6 (KJV): 5 Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you. 6 For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not theirs.

Yes, both Assyria and Babylon were interested in conquest and spoil, but God used this to judge Israel and Judah. God was in control, not the devil.
Does that contradict the idea that we are not to privately interpret scripture in searching out the meaning of scripture?
Not at all, if anything your points reinforce the idea that our interpretations of scripture are to be avoided. It is indeed foolish to think that my opinions matter in the least. They do not matter at all.
Who is the author of scripture? You? Me? Denominations? Did the apostle Paul author scripture? Did Peter author scripture? No, God is the sole author of scripture.
If we have any humility at all, we will avoid inserting our preconceived notions, our emotions, our experiences, our favorite theologies, our denominations theologies into scripture.
To have any interpretation of scripture of our own is to deny God's authorship and His wisdom, knowledge understanding......
I have learned to avoid interpreting scripture all together. I have been taught to and learned to let it speak for itself
What I was suggesting is that there has been much discussion between the concept that the Bible needs another interpreter such as the Catholic Church, or the JWs, or EGW, or some other “inspired prophet” or whether the teaching of the Scriptures is clear and can be understood.


I will quote from a source on the internet:
“Question: "What is the doctrine of the perspicuity of Scripture? Is the Bible perspicuous?"
Answer: The word perspicuity means “clarity.” To say that something is perspicacious is to say that it is clear. The doctrine of the perspicuity (clarity) of Scripture is one of the basic tenets of Protestant evangelicalism regarding the Bible, along with the doctrines of the inspiration, inerrancy, and sufficiency of Scripture. In short, the doctrine of perspicuity means that the central message of the Bible is clear and understandable and that the Bible itself can be properly interpreted in a normal, literal sense.”
To prosper in III John 2 literally means to be led in a good way. Is poverty a good way?
I understand your objection to the radicalism of some "prosperity" preachers. God will not solely about financial gain. There are many other categories of life besides finances.
Abraham was a wealthy man. Joseph in Genesis brought increase to those he served.
There are many examples of believers who were financially prosperous. God blessed them with that prosperity because they loved and obeyed God.
I was speaking against the prosperity concept in most forms. God is the creator, and we are in his hands to guide and transform us through good and evil circumstances.


Kind regards
Trevor
 

7djengo7

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To proper in III John 2 literally means to be led in a good way.

Is poverty a good way?

Is poverty of what a good way?

If, as TrevorL pointed out, Christ's apostles had little or no "silver and gold", would that not mean that they were in poverty regarding "silver and gold"? And yet, you would not want to say that Christ's apostles were in a bad way because of such a poverty, right? For, on the other hand, they were obviously not in poverty regarding Truth; nay, they were the wealthiest men living on the face of the earth in their day.

And certainly, poverty of imagination to do evil must, indeed, be a good way. No?

Obviously, then, since poverty is always poverty of some particular thing(s), the question you ought to ask will have a form such as, "Is poverty of ______ a good way?"

Is God poverty stricken?

Not stricken, but God seems to be in some poverty:
"God is light, and in him is no darkness at all"

God seems to have a poverty of darkness. Not man, though--man's got all the darkness we'd ever want, and then some.

Peter and John were not poverty stricken. The simplest answer is that they did not literally have any cash on them at the moment.

So, they had "cash"--just not "on them at the moment", eh? Where did they have it? Why did they not have it "on them at the moment?" Would you say it was a "good way" for them to have "cash", but an "even better way" for them to "not literally have any cash on them at the moment"?
 

God's Truth

New member
Yes that is correct

Christians are not referred to as sheep or lambs, we are sons of God
Actually, the Jews are called sheep and the sons of God.

Romans 9:4 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises.

We are born again into the kingdom of God

Only sheep are in the fold, the body of Christ. You out yourself.
 

God's Truth

New member
I just skimmed all the posts and not sure if I am repeating one already said but, how about 'Cleanliness is next to Godliness'?

That isn't anywhere in the Bible that I can find, but we see all the purification works are about being made clean...even the priest had to have his hair neat and not a mess every day. How many of us fail that one? lol
 
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