Christ Death ensures belief in Him via the Gospel !

[beloved57]

Jn 10:26

²⁶ But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Jn 17:19-20

¹⁹ And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

²⁰ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

When Jesus speaks of sanctifying Himself for their sakes, Hes referring to His Death for their sakes. He was set apart unto His Death Jn 10:36

Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Jn 10:18

No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

And the purpose and result of laying down His Life was in order that, those whom He laid down His for [ The Sheep] might be sanctified through the Truth. The Truth here is #1 Jesus Himself, who is the Truth Jn 14:6

⁶ Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

# 2. The Gospel of their Salvation " the word of truth" Eph 1:13

¹³ In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Now they are sanctified through the Truth for Christs sake when the Spirit from Christ sets them apart unto belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13

¹³ But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

This work of the Spirit is a answer to Christs intercession from Jn 17:17,19

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

¹⁹ And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

 

[Trump Gurl]

All you did was spam a bunch of verses. What is your point. What is the point of the thread. Say something useful.

 

[beloved57]

All you did was spam a bunch of verses. What is your point. What is the point of the thread. Say something useful.

Ok. If you cant understand what Im saying, its a waste of time to discuss it.

 

[Trump Gurl]

Ok. If you cant understand what Im saying, its a waste of time to discuss it.

You haven't said anything to understand.

 

[beloved57]

You haven't said anything to understand.

ok

 

[beloved57]

Because Christs Death ensures Faith, the promise is " the just shall live by Faith" Rom 1:16-17

¹⁶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

¹⁷ For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

[Bradley D]

Because Christs Death ensures Faith, the promise is " the just shall live by Faith" Rom 1:16-17

Faith in Christ's Death and resurrection ensures Salvation.

 

[Nanja]

Jn 10:26

²⁶ But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Jn 17:19-20

¹⁹ And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

²⁰ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

When Jesus speaks of sanctifying Himself for their sakes, Hes referring to His Death for their sakes. He was set apart unto His Death Jn 10:36

Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Jn 10:18

No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

And the purpose and result of laying down His Life was in order that, those whom He laid down His for [ The Sheep] might be sanctified through the Truth. The Truth here is #1 Jesus Himself, who is the Truth Jn 14:6

⁶ Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

# 2. The Gospel of their Salvation " the word of truth" Eph 1:13

¹³ In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Now they are sanctified through the Truth for Christs sake when the Spirit from Christ sets them apart unto belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13

¹³ But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

This work of the Spirit is a answer to Christs intercession from Jn 17:17,19

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

¹⁹ And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Amen Brother to Parts #1 and #6 !

Because all of Christ's Sheep [The Just; Rom. 1:17] were Sanctified through the Truth by His Death on their behalf John 17:19-20, no exceptions; it's a guaranteed fact that every one of them shall Believe on Him in Time and be Given Faith in Christ Gal. 5:22 in the Faithful One, to Hear the Gospel of their Salvation Eph. 1:13, because they were, even from eternity, already Chosen to Salvation, through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the Truth 2 Thess. 2:13.

Consequently, if a person lives and dies in unbelief of the Truth, we can only conclude that they were never any of Christ's Sheep whom He Lived and Died for.

Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[beloved57]

Faith in Christ's Death and resurrection ensures Salvation.

Did you read and understand my points?

 

[beloved57]

Amen Brother to Parts #1 and #6 !

Because all of Christ's Sheep [The Just; Rom. 1:17] were Sanctified through the Truth by His Death on their behalf John 17:19-20, no exceptions; it's a guaranteed fact that every one of them shall Believe on Him in Time and be Given Faith in Christ Gal. 5:22 in the Faithful One, to Hear the Gospel of their Salvation Eph. 1:13, because they were, even from eternity, already Chosen to Salvation, through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the Truth 2 Thess. 2:13.

Consequently, if a person lives and dies in unbelief of the Truth, we can only conclude that they were never any of Christ's Sheep whom He Lived and Died for.

Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Eexactly you nailed it Sister!

 

[beloved57]

Jesus in this scripture promises that the children/sheep shall put their trust/faith in God. Heb 2:13

¹³ And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

 

[thborn]

Jn 10:26

²⁶ But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Jn 17:19-20

¹⁹ And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

²⁰ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

When Jesus speaks of sanctifying Himself for their sakes, Hes referring to His Death for their sakes. He was set apart unto His Death Jn 10:36

Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Jn 10:18

No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

And the purpose and result of laying down His Life was in order that, those whom He laid down His for [ The Sheep] might be sanctified through the Truth. The Truth here is #1 Jesus Himself, who is the Truth Jn 14:6

⁶ Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

# 2. The Gospel of their Salvation " the word of truth" Eph 1:13

¹³ In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Now they are sanctified through the Truth for Christs sake when the Spirit from Christ sets them apart unto belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13

¹³ But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

This work of the Spirit is a answer to Christs intercession from Jn 17:17,19

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

¹⁹ And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

So Scripture is saying there is an initial act of sanctification through Christ/the truth. Indeed, it is the only one that really matters in terms of salvation. Do you believe this is the only act of sanctification that therefore applies to the Believer through his or her lives? What do you call the increase in holiness as God works in the Believer during his or her life on earth? Should we be thinking of this as just an outward sign of innate sanctification or is this a somewhat distinct process from that?

On the one hand, it was predestined, the Believers being made holy... but on the other hand, we do experience time here on earth, we experience being washed clean and afterwards being a new creation, not like we once were, if we are Children of God.

 

[beloved57]

So Scripture is saying there is an initial act of sanctification through Christ/the truth. Indeed, it is the only one that really matters in terms of salvation. Do you believe this is the only act of sanctification that therefore applies to the Believer through his or her lives? What do you call the increase in holiness as God works in the Believer during his or her life on earth? Should we be thinking of this as just an outward sign of innate sanctification or is this a somewhat distinct process from that?

On the one hand, it was predestined, the Believers being made holy... but on the other hand, we do experience time here on earth, we experience being washed clean and afterwards being a new creation, not like we once were, if we are Children of God.

Sounds like to me you are taking things in another direction. First of all do you understand my point?

 

[Nanja]

Jesus in this scripture promises that the children/sheep shall put their trust/faith in God. Heb 2:13

¹³ And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

Amen Brother !

The Children / Sheep of God, shall come to Believe / Trust, put their Faith in Christ as their Surety Saviour in Time, via the Gospel, simply because they were already Children of God from Eternity Heb.2:13; Eph. 1:4; 2 Tim. 1:9, when they were given to Christ of the Father John 6:39; even before they come to Trust or are Given Faith in Him in the New Birth Gal. 5:22. For Christ was already set up as their Surety and Saviour even from Everlasting Heb. 7:22, as the Lamb slain from the foundation Rev. 13:8 on their behalf exclusively !

 

[beloved57]

Amen Brother !

The Children / Sheep of God, shall come to Believe / Trust, put their Faith in Christ as their Surety Saviour in Time, via the Gospel, simply because they were already Children of God from Eternity Heb.2:13; Eph. 1:4; 2 Tim. 1:9, when they were given to Christ of the Father John 6:39; even before they come to Trust or are Given Faith in Him in the New Birth Gal. 5:22. For Christ was already set up as their Surety and Saviour even from Everlasting Heb. 7:22, as the Lamb slain from the foundation Rev. 13:8 on their behalf exclusively !

Amen Sister they had been ordained to eternal life so consequently they believe Acts 13:48

⁴⁸ And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

 

[Nanja]

Amen Sister they had been ordained to eternal life so consequently they believe Acts 13:48

⁴⁸ And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Amen exactly Brother !

 

[thborn]

Sounds like to me you are taking things in another direction. First of all do you understand my point?

Your point is an important one. Scripture speaks of elect/chosen/believers who are foreknown and predestined (Romans 8:29-30), who are chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4). You point out in John 17 that God is speaking not just of His disciples at that time but others later who shall believe after having the Gospel preached to them (if my reading of John 17 is correct in light of what you have pointed out?). It is not just that Christ has made a path to salvation...Christ's sacrifice is salvation. We can have confidence that all who are chosen will firmly believe the Gospel Paul preached, and all who believe it in their hearts will stand, for the lord is able to make one stand (Romans 14:4). They were reconciled to God while still enemies (Romans 5:10) but are sanctified in Christ who indeed is the Truth.

The Truth sets them free and will no longer be slaves to sin but in the light. Despite having been children of wrath, though vessels of mercy instead of vessels of wrath, they are now a new creation... the spiritual person instead of the natural person of Corinthians 2:14-16. They were once in the flesh, but there is no condemnation for those who are now in Him (Romans 8:1)...they were made holy by Christ's sacrifice and this generally becomes more and more evident to others as they live their lives in the Body of Christ and turn from sin and run the race. While there is mystery in the nature of God and His love that we will later see more clearly, Scripture clearly states how we should humbly view ourselves and our choices and actions: God’s grace that works in one (as in Phillipians 2:13). Also Ephesians 1:23, the fullness of Him who fills everything in every way.... (though care should be taken not to equate everything with God; there is no evil in Him). Paul knew did not claim it was he and his disciples doing God's loving work but rather grace working in them.

All of this is true and it is a shame that many only emphasize believing. For while we have to have believed Paul's Gospel to be among those who were saved by grace, one who is saved by grace and thus believes will, I think, also become humble and be willing to give God the credit for everything, including believing, rather than dogmatically insist on and emphasize their own role as primary. Because that is too close to saving oneself through a work one does, which we hopefully all agree is a false idea of salvation. There is believing, but there is also what comes before believing, and what comes after believing. I have certainly been a child of wrath and so proud and greedy, but through grace one can place their hope in Christ to be delivered from their body of sin if it be according to His will and they are not among those vessels of wrath He withdraws from.

 

[beloved57]

Your point is an important one. Scripture speaks of elect/chosen/believers who are foreknown and predestined (Romans 8:29-30), who are chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4). You point out in John 17 that God is speaking not just of His disciples at that time but others later who shall believe after having the Gospel preached to them (if my reading of John 17 is correct in light of what you have pointed out?). It is not just that Christ has made a path to salvation...Christ's sacrifice is salvation. We can have confidence that all who are chosen will firmly believe the Gospel Paul preached, and all who believe it in their hearts will stand, for the lord is able to make one stand (Romans 14:4). They were reconciled to God while still enemies (Romans 5:10) but are sanctified in Christ who indeed is the Truth.

The Truth sets them free and will no longer be slaves to sin but in the light. Despite having been children of wrath, though vessels of mercy instead of vessels of wrath, they are now a new creation... the spiritual person instead of the natural person of Corinthians 2:14-16. They were once in the flesh, but there is no condemnation for those who are now in Him (Romans 8:1)...they were made holy by Christ's sacrifice and this generally becomes more and more evident to others as they live their lives in the Body of Christ and turn from sin and run the race. While there is mystery in the nature of God and His love that we will later see more clearly, Scripture clearly states how we should humbly view ourselves and our choices and actions: God’s grace that works in one (as in Phillipians 2:13). Also Ephesians 1:23, the fullness of Him who fills everything in every way.... (though care should be taken not to equate everything with God; there is no evil in Him). Paul knew did not claim it was he and his disciples doing God's loving work but rather grace working in them.

All of this is true and it is a shame that many only emphasize believing. For while we have to have believed Paul's Gospel to be among those who were saved by grace, one who is saved by grace and thus believes will, I think, also become humble and be willing to give God the credit for everything, including believing, rather than dogmatically insist on and emphasize their own role as primary. Because that is too close to saving oneself through a work one does, which we hopefully all agree is a false idea of salvation. There is believing, but there is also what comes before believing, and what comes after believing. I have certainly been a child of wrath and so proud and greedy, but through grace one can place their hope in Christ to be delivered from their body of sin if it be according to His will and they are not among those vessels of wrath He withdraws from.

Do you believe that the children of wrath are the same as the vessels of wrath?

 

[thborn]

Do you believe that the children of wrath are the same as the vessels of wrath?

No, 'children of wrath' means something different from 'vessels of wrath.'

Without God there is no goodness, and without His purpose and intervention everyone would remain children of wrath.
Out of love God made some children of God. He always meant for them to be Vessels of Mercy.
But the vessels of wrath, according to Romans 9, would seem to be something different and distinct from Vessels of Mercy, and not ever destined to be on the path of love and light and mercy. I don't have as systematic reason to explain why it should be so, and I m not sure Paul would have wanted us to try to develop a systematic explanation, but that seems to be a humble and faithful, if difficult, reading of Scripture.

 

[beloved57]

Thborn

No, 'children of wrath' means something different from 'vessels of wrath.'

Exactly. The elect are born children of wrath but vessels of Mercy!

Without God there is no goodness, and without His purpose and intervention everyone would remain children of wrath.

True

Out of love God made some children of God. He always meant for them to be Vessels of Mercy

True

But the vessels of wrath, according to Romans 9, would seem to be something different and distinct from Vessels of Mercy, and not ever destined to be on the path of love and light and mercy

Yes they are destined and always have been on the wide road for destruction.

I don't have as systematic reason to explain why it should be so

God's own Sovereign pleasure

and I m not sure Paul would have wanted us to try to develop a systematic explanation, but that seems to be a humble and faithful, if difficult, reading of Scripture

God has a Sovereign right to do what He wills with His own !