Man by nature is Ignorant of True God in Christ

[beloved57]

Rom 10:1-3

Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. ² For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. ³ For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

That man by nature is ignorant of the True God/Jehovah in Christ is seen explicitly here with the jews of Paul's day. Lets not misunderstand, that though this is speaking of jews, its not exclusive to jews, but includes all men, that by nature we have, in our spiritually lost state, a zeal of God, but unfortunately, as it was with the jews, so with all men, this zeal, is not according to knowledge. The knowledge here is knowledge with correct truth. The greek word epignósis

knowledge of a particular point (directed towards a particular object); perception, discernment, recognition, intuition

Its a Salvation Knowledge of Truth as in 1 Tim 2:4

⁴ who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth

This knowledge we have not by nature, though we may have a zeal of God !

 

[Nanja]

Rom 10:1-3

Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. ² For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. ³ For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

That man by nature is ignorant of the True God/Jehovah in Christ is seen explicitly here with the jews of Paul's day. Lets not misunderstand, that though this is speaking of jews, its not exclusive to jews, but includes all men, that by nature we have, in our spiritually lost state, a zeal of God, but unfortunately, as it was with the jews, so with all men, this zeal, is not according to knowledge. The knowledge here is knowledge with correct truth. The greek word epignósis

knowledge of a particular point (directed towards a particular object); perception, discernment, recognition, intuition

Its a Salvation Knowledge of Truth as in 1 Tim 2:4

⁴ who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth

This knowledge we have not by nature, though we may have a zeal of God !

So true Brother, just as these spiritually ignorant jews spoken of in Rom. 10:1-3, so are all those who remain in false religion of our day and time; having a zeal for God but not according to knowledge: That is, not with correct Truth, and who shall permanently remain in that lost condition simply because they weren't ever any of the all men 1 Tim. 2:4 whom God Willed to be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth.

 

[beloved57]

All men, by nature have, in our spiritually lost state, a zeal of God, but unfortunately, as it was with the jews, so with all men, this zeal, is not according to knowledge.

So in this state, by nature #1 Religious , without Spiritual Saving knowledge, men naturally in themselves ignorant of Righteousness with God

³ For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness,and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Not only is man naturally unrighteous [ Rom 3:10] he doesn't know a thing about Gods Righteousness, nor how to be righteous with God.

Of course he doesn't realize this, and in his own way "goes about to establish their own righteousness," and are all the time:

have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God" though religious

 

[beloved57]

So true Brother, just as these spiritually ignorant jews spoken of in Rom. 10:1-3, so are all those who remain in false religion of our day and time; having a zeal for God but not according to knowledge: That is, not with correct Truth, and who shall permanently remain in that lost condition simply because they weren't ever any of the all men 1 Tim. 2:4 whom God Willed to be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth.

Amen Sister, their only hope of escaping such a condition, is if they belong to the election of Grace, and God mercifully converts them.

 

[Nanja]

All men, by nature have, in our spiritually lost state, a zeal of God, but unfortunately, as it was with the jews, so with all men, this zeal, is not according to knowledge.

So in this state, by nature #1 Religious , without Spiritual Saving knowledge, men naturally in themselves ignorant of Righteousness with God

³ For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness,and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Not only is man naturally unrighteous [ Rom 3:10] he doesn't know a thing about Gods Righteousness, nor how to be righteous with God.

Of course he doesn't realize this, and in his own way "goes about to establish their own righteousness," and are all the time:

have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God" though religious

Yes, that's so true and typical of those immersed in false religion today, just as the jews of Rom. 10:2 were: They have not the Knowledge of Salvation given them, simply because they are not His [Elect] People.

Luke 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

And so they go about in their zeal to establish their own Righteousness and Salvation.

 

[Nanja]

Amen Sister, their only hope of escaping such a condition, is if they belong to the election of Grace, and God mercifully converts them.

Yes Indeed Brother !

 

[beloved57]

Yes, that's so true and typical of those immersed in false religion today, just as the jews of Rom. 10:2 were: They have not the Knowledge of Salvation given them, simply because they are not His [Elect] People.

Luke 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

And so they go about in their zeal to establish their own Righteousness and Salvation.

Amen Sister. Lk 1:77 is a strong scripture for this. Thanks

 

[Nanja]

Amen Sister. Lk 1:77 is a strong scripture for this. Thanks

Amen, you're so welcome my Brother !

 

[beloved57]

Its natural for man to seek to establish his own righteousness, this is done in so many different ways Isa 53:6, however the end desired is to find peace, acceptance, favor with God. This scripture sums it up perfectly. Prov 14:12

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

 

[Nanja]

Its natural for man to seek to establish his own righteousness, this is done in so many different ways Isa 53:6, however the end desired is to find peace, acceptance, favor with God. This scripture sums it up perfectly. Prov 14:12

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Amen Brother, by nature it seems the right and correct way for a man to want to be accepted by God by his good works and religious sincerity;
but what he is unaware of, is that his very best morality and works offered to God are nothing but iniquity 2 Thess. 2:7 !


Jude 1:11 - Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.


Rom. 10:2-3

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

 

[k0de]

Matthew 5:20 (ESV): For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Excellent interpretation of the word of the Lord. Even Jesus didn't considered or endorse the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees.

So in what way are you two love birds exempt?

 

[beloved57]

So as seen by the jews the natural man doesn't submit to the righteousness of God Rom 10:3 and indeed can't be Rom 8:7-8

 

[Nanja]

So as seen by the jews the natural man doesn't submit to the righteousness of God Rom 10:3 and indeed can't be Rom 8:7-8

So true Brother ! As a result of the natural / man's mind being carnal, spiritually dead Rom. 8:7-8, he's totally unable to submit to the righteousness of God just as these jews were in Rom. 10:3 [which is revealed in the Gospel of Christ Rom. 1:16-17], because he's destitute of the gift of Faith; which only comes by being Given of God when one is born of the Spirit Gal. 5:22; John 3:6; and Faith pleases God.

Heb. 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


However the faith that the natural man produces in his unregenerate mind is a work of the flesh that cannot please God.

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God Rom. 8:7-8 !

 

[beloved57]

Sister Nanja

So true Brother ! As a result of the natural / man's mind being carnal, spiritually dead Rom. 8:7-8, he's totally unable to submit to the righteousness of God just as these jews were in Rom. 10:3 [which is revealed in the Gospel of Christ Rom. 1:16-17], because he's destitute of the gift of Faith; which only comes by being Given of God when one is born of the Spirit Gal. 5:22; John 3:6; and Faith pleases God.

Absolutely and Praise the Lord ! Its so refreshing to fellowship in Truth

 

[Nanja]

Sister Nanja


Absolutely and Praise the Lord ! Its so refreshing to fellowship in Truth

Yes it is, very refreshing; and I'm Praising Him right along with you my Brother, for the Spiritually edifying fellowship in the Truth we have shared over the years

 

[7djengo7]

Rom 10:1-3

Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. ² For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. ³ For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

That man by nature is ignorant of the True God/Jehovah in Christ is seen explicitly here with the jews of Paul's day. Lets not misunderstand, that though this is speaking of jews, its not exclusive to jews, but includes all men, that by nature we have, in our spiritually lost state, a zeal of God, but unfortunately, as it was with the jews, so with all men, this zeal, is not according to knowledge. The knowledge here is knowledge with correct truth. The greek word epignósis

knowledge of a particular point (directed towards a particular object); perception, discernment, recognition, intuition

Its a Salvation Knowledge of Truth as in 1 Tim 2:4

⁴ who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth

This knowledge we have not by nature, though we may have a zeal of God !

In your other thread, you claim that those to whom Paul refers as those "who were by nature the children of wrath", are still, and shall always be, throughout eternity, by nature the children of wrath. I wonder if you'd also like to claim that the same shall be always, throughout eternity, "by nature ignorant of true God in Christ".

 

[7djengo7]

Matthew 5:20 (ESV): For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Excellent interpretation of the word of the Lord. Even Jesus didn't considered or endorse the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees.

So in what way are you two love birds exempt?

:chuckle:

:first:

 

[blackbirdking]

Rom 10:1-3

Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. ² For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. ³ For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

That man by nature is ignorant of the True God/Jehovah in Christ is seen explicitly here with the jews of Paul's day. Lets not misunderstand, that though this is speaking of jews, its not exclusive to jews, but includes all men, that by nature we have, in our spiritually lost state, a zeal of God, but unfortunately, as it was with the jews, so with all men, this zeal, is not according to knowledge. The knowledge here is knowledge with correct truth. The greek word epignósis

knowledge of a particular point (directed towards a particular object); perception, discernment, recognition, intuition

Its a Salvation Knowledge of Truth as in 1 Tim 2:4

⁴ who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth

This knowledge we have not by nature, though we may have a zeal of God !

Nowhere does the text say:

Man by nature is Ignorant of True God in Christ". Rather, quite the opposite if you bother to read it.


Like this:​

"Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

And this:
"Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?"

How many times must you be told to read the whole Bible...!

 

[beloved57]

Nowhere does the text say:

Man by nature is Ignorant of True God in Christ". Rather, quite the opposite if you bother to read it.


Like this:​

"Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

And this:
"Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?"

How many times must you be told to read the whole Bible...!

Rabbit Trail from points i made!

 

[blackbirdking]

Rabbit Trail from points i made!

Very well said; you admit you're running around in the brush to make a false, Calvinistic 'point', based upon a verse that says nothing about, "Man by nature is ignorant of True God in Christ"

.​

Typical behavior of true Calvinists, factitiously belittling the character of God in order to make their false "points", ignoring plain scripture in the process.

You do not know if you are 'elect' because your god creates damned men for his glory. It seems like you're trying to convince yourself that you're right.

Just start in Genesis, read the whole Bible, forget what man taught you, and THE TRUTH will set you free; guaranteed.