WHO IS THE WILD OLIVE TREE ?

DougE

Well-known member
Who is the wild olive tree grafted into the good tree?
Is it Gentiles today in the church, body of Christ ?

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

God is not done with unbelieving Israel.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

The remnant is composed of believing Jews and Gentiles. God has always made provision for the Gentiles to be saved through Israel.

11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

The election, the Jewish and Gentile believing remnant, has obtained to righteousness by grace through faith. Unbelieving Israel has been blinded.

11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Israel fell because of their rejection of Jesus as Christ, the Son of God. Beginning with the earthly ministry of Jesus Israel had to believe on the name of Jesus, that he is the Messiah, the Son of God, to be justified unto eternal life (John 8:24 Acts 2:36)). Jesus shed his blood and died for the remission of sins under the first testament (Matthew 26:28 Hebrews 9:15). Jesus died to put in force the new testament for Israel (Hebrews 9:17). Only the believing remnant of Jews received Jesus for the new testament promise of salvation. Gentiles also believed. Through the fall of Israel, salvation came to the Gentiles to provoke unbelieving Israel to jealousy in order to save them.

Romans 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

Israel, as can be seen in the above verse, would be provoked to jealousy by a foolish nation who are not a people (Deuteronomy 32:21); this foolish nation is believing Israel; the people who were not a people, but called the children of God, the people of God (Hosea 1:10 Hosea 2:23 1 Peter 2:9-10).

Romans 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Israel's fulness is when Israel obtains all the promises and purpose of God.

11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Paul, in the book of Romans is addressing three existing groups:

1 Unbelieving Jews and Gentiles.

2 Jews and Gentiles in the body of Christ who believed the gospel of Christ as preached by Paul.

3 Jew and Gentile new testament saints who are in Christ by believing on the name of Jesus; believing Jesus is Lord and Christ. They believed Jesus died and rose again to fulfill the new covenant promised Israel in Jeremiah 31:31. They also believed the gospel of the kingdom, in which, Christ will come again to rule and reign with Israel on earth.

In Romans 11:13 Paul is speaking to Gentile new testament saints. Paul is speaking to the new testament Gentiles, not Gentiles in the church, the body of Christ, who believed Paul's gospel. Paul by any means would provoke them which are of his flesh, the unbelieving Jews, to salvation.

Romans 1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

In verses 6 and 7 above, those called are Jews or Gentiles called into the body of Christ, and Jews or Gentiles called into the kingdom through the new testament (1 Corinthians 1:2 1:24 7:18).

Romans 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

Verses 24 and 25 above refers to the holy nation, the little flock (Luke 12:32), the believing remnant. According to verse 24 the believing Gentiles are also of those whom he has "called".

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Paul, in the verse above is alluding to Psalm 145:9 and Psalm 145:18 below:

Psalm 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

Psalm 145:18 The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

In the next verse above, Paul is mentioning Joel 2:32 below:

Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

In verses 12 and 13 of Romans above, it is both Jew and Gentile who make up the election of grace who call upon the name of the Lord; both Jews and Gentiles who believed on the name of Jesus by the preaching of Peter and the apostles.

Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved includes both Jew and Gentile in the remnant of believing Israel, not the body of Christ.

The Gentiles in Romans 11:13 are Gentile new testament saints, not the Gentiles in the church, the body of Christ.

11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

In verse 17 above, "thou being a wild olive tree" is the Gentile new testament saints, part of the election of grace. The remnant of Gentile new testament believers is the wild olive tree, grafted among the fruitfull branches of the believing Jews, the good olive tree. The broken off branches are unbelieving Israel.

It would not stand to reason to consider Gentiles in the body of Christ the "wild olive tree" because the body of Christ consists of both Jews and Gentiles. The Jews in the body could not be considered to be a "wild olive tree", but rather the natural olive tree; also, in the body there is neither Jew or Gentile (Galatians 3:28).

It can be seen from John 15 below that the broken off branches refers to unfruitful, unbelieving Israel.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

In Matthew below, the kingdom will be taken from unbelieving Israel and given to the fruitful nation of Israel. They are not all Israel, which are of Israel, it is only the believing, promised seed (Romans 9:6).

Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

The election of grace, the remnant, would also be cut off if they fell into unbelief. They would not enter the promised Davidic kingdom.

11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

The remnant of new testament Gentiles were cut out of a wild olive tree and grafted into the good olive tree of believing Israel: so unbelieving Israel would be grafted back into their own good olive tree if they repented and believed.

11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Israel will be restored when the fulness of the Gentiles comes in; that is when the Gentiles, which would include Gentiles in the body of Christ, have fulfilled their purpose as determined by God. Jesus will come again to bring salvation to Israel.

11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Jesus will fulfill the New Testament and restore, and bring salvation to Israel.

In conclusion, the wild olive tree is the remnant of believing new testament Gentiles. These Gentiles have, by the preaching of Peter and the apostles, believed on the name of Jesus as the crucified and risen Lord and Christ. These Gentiles have believed in the death, and shed blood of Jesus for the new testament. These Gentiles have believed the gospel of the kingdom; that by his resurrection, he will fulfill the promise of his coming to bring salvation. The Gentiles spoken of are the wild olive tree grafted into the good olive tree; they are part of the election of grace, who along with the little flock, will enter the coming kingdom on earth. These Gentiles are not in the body of Christ.
 

God's Truth

New member
Who is the wild olive tree grafted into the good tree?
Is it Gentiles today in the church, body of Christ ?

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

God is not done with unbelieving Israel.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

The remnant is composed of believing Jews and Gentiles. God has always made provision for the Gentiles to be saved through Israel.

11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

The election, the Jewish and Gentile believing remnant, has obtained to righteousness by grace through faith. Unbelieving Israel has been blinded.

11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Israel fell because of their rejection of Jesus as Christ, the Son of God. Beginning with the earthly ministry of Jesus Israel had to believe on the name of Jesus, that he is the Messiah, the Son of God, to be justified unto eternal life (John 8:24 Acts 2:36)). Jesus shed his blood and died for the remission of sins under the first testament (Matthew 26:28 Hebrews 9:15). Jesus died to put in force the new testament for Israel (Hebrews 9:17). Only the believing remnant of Jews received Jesus for the new testament promise of salvation. Gentiles also believed. Through the fall of Israel, salvation came to the Gentiles to provoke unbelieving Israel to jealousy in order to save them.

Romans 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

Israel, as can be seen in the above verse, would be provoked to jealousy by a foolish nation who are not a people (Deuteronomy 32:21); this foolish nation is believing Israel; the people who were not a people, but called the children of God, the people of God (Hosea 1:10 Hosea 2:23 1 Peter 2:9-10).

Romans 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Israel's fulness is when Israel obtains all the promises and purpose of God.

11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Paul, in the book of Romans is addressing three existing groups:

1 Unbelieving Jews and Gentiles.

2 Jews and Gentiles in the body of Christ who believed the gospel of Christ as preached by Paul.

3 Jew and Gentile new testament saints who are in Christ by believing on the name of Jesus; believing Jesus is Lord and Christ. They believed Jesus died and rose again to fulfill the new covenant promised Israel in Jeremiah 31:31. They also believed the gospel of the kingdom, in which, Christ will come again to rule and reign with Israel on earth.

In Romans 11:13 Paul is speaking to Gentile new testament saints. Paul is speaking to the new testament Gentiles, not Gentiles in the church, the body of Christ, who believed Paul's gospel. Paul by any means would provoke them which are of his flesh, the unbelieving Jews, to salvation.

Romans 1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

In verses 6 and 7 above, those called are Jews or Gentiles called into the body of Christ, and Jews or Gentiles called into the kingdom through the new testament (1 Corinthians 1:2 1:24 7:18).

Romans 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

Verses 24 and 25 above refers to the holy nation, the little flock (Luke 12:32), the believing remnant. According to verse 24 the believing Gentiles are also of those whom he has "called".

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Paul, in the verse above is alluding to Psalm 145:9 and Psalm 145:18 below:

Psalm 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

Psalm 145:18 The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

In the next verse above, Paul is mentioning Joel 2:32 below:

Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

In verses 12 and 13 of Romans above, it is both Jew and Gentile who make up the election of grace who call upon the name of the Lord; both Jews and Gentiles who believed on the name of Jesus by the preaching of Peter and the apostles.

Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved includes both Jew and Gentile in the remnant of believing Israel, not the body of Christ.

The Gentiles in Romans 11:13 are Gentile new testament saints, not the Gentiles in the church, the body of Christ.

11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

In verse 17 above, "thou being a wild olive tree" is the Gentile new testament saints, part of the election of grace. The remnant of Gentile new testament believers is the wild olive tree, grafted among the fruitfull branches of the believing Jews, the good olive tree. The broken off branches are unbelieving Israel.

It would not stand to reason to consider Gentiles in the body of Christ the "wild olive tree" because the body of Christ consists of both Jews and Gentiles. The Jews in the body could not be considered to be a "wild olive tree", but rather the natural olive tree; also, in the body there is neither Jew or Gentile (Galatians 3:28).

It can be seen from John 15 below that the broken off branches refers to unfruitful, unbelieving Israel.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

In Matthew below, the kingdom will be taken from unbelieving Israel and given to the fruitful nation of Israel. They are not all Israel, which are of Israel, it is only the believing, promised seed (Romans 9:6).

Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

The election of grace, the remnant, would also be cut off if they fell into unbelief. They would not enter the promised Davidic kingdom.

11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

The remnant of new testament Gentiles were cut out of a wild olive tree and grafted into the good olive tree of believing Israel: so unbelieving Israel would be grafted back into their own good olive tree if they repented and believed.

11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Israel will be restored when the fulness of the Gentiles comes in; that is when the Gentiles, which would include Gentiles in the body of Christ, have fulfilled their purpose as determined by God. Jesus will come again to bring salvation to Israel.

11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Jesus will fulfill the New Testament and restore, and bring salvation to Israel.

In conclusion, the wild olive tree is the remnant of believing new testament Gentiles. These Gentiles have, by the preaching of Peter and the apostles, believed on the name of Jesus as the crucified and risen Lord and Christ. These Gentiles have believed in the death, and shed blood of Jesus for the new testament. These Gentiles have believed the gospel of the kingdom; that by his resurrection, he will fulfill the promise of his coming to bring salvation. The Gentiles spoken of are the wild olive tree grafted into the good olive tree; they are part of the election of grace, who along with the little flock, will enter the coming kingdom on earth. These Gentiles are not in the body of Christ.

The WILD OLIVE tree are the GENTILES. The cultivated olive tree are the Jews.

NO wild shoot can be grafted into the cultivated olive tree unless the person believes and obeys Jesus.

The body of Christ is the ROOT of the tree.

If someone is not in the tree then they are not in the body and are not saved.

When Jesus came to earth, BRANCHES were CUT OFF.

Not all branches were cut off.

Only the Jews who did not have faith are the branches that were cut off.

The Gentiles that believe are grafted in.

Anyone claiming to be a Jew now is not because they did not believe in the one the Father sent.

God bound ALL TO HELL until they come to Jesus in submission.

A cultivated tree is just about a tree being looked over and managed.

In this case, the cultivated tree is a tree that was over looked by God.

Now ALL have to be grafted in the tree to be God's.
 
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God's Truth

New member
Jesus made the two separate people into one.

We were grafted into Israel.

We were grafted into the same tree.


See Romans 11:17, 19, Ephesians 2:14,15, 17, 1 Corinthians 12:13, Galatians 3:28, Colossians 1:20.



Galatians 3:7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham.

Romans 4:16
Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring--not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

Galatians 3:9
So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Galatians 3:29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Romans 9:8
In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.

Ephesians 3:6
This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:16
and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
The WILD OLIVE tree are the GENTILES. The cultivated olive tree are the Jews.

NO wild shoot can be grafted into the cultivated olive tree unless the person believes and obeys Jesus.

The body of Christ is the ROOT of the tree.

If someone is not in the tree then they are not in the body and are not saved.

When Jesus came to earth, BRANCHES were CUT OFF.

Not all branches were cut off.

Only the Jews who did not have faith are the branches that were cut off.

The Gentiles that believe are grafted in.

Anyone claiming to be a Jew now is not because they did not believe in the one the Father sent.

God bound ALL TO HELL until they come to Jesus in submission.

A cultivated tree is just about a tree being looked over and managed.

In this case, the cultivated tree is a tree that was overlooked by God.

Now ALL have to be grafted in the tree to be God's.


Hi and when are these GENTILES GRAFTED into the wild olive tree ??

The B O C has already been taken away , 2 Thess 2:1-3 , 1 Cor 15:51 -51-58 , 1 Thess 4:13-18 !!

These GENTILES are those fro Matt 25:32-46 !!

There are 3 groups here , Jews , Sheep and Goats !!

The Sheep are the GENTILES that go into the MILLENNIUM KINGDOM with the Jews and these are the GENTILES that are saved and GRAFTED into the olive tree !!

dan p
 

God's Truth

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Hi and when are these GENTILES GRAFTED into the wild olive tree ??
No. Gentiles were called 'wild olive tree' because they were growing wild without God as their caretaker.

The B O C has already been taken away , 2 Thess 2:1-3 , 1 Cor 15:51 -51-58 , 1 Thess 4:13-18 !!
Jesus is coming again.
We are put in Jesus when we are saved and we will physically go to him at the resurrection of the dead.
These GENTILES are those fro Matt 25:32-46 !!

There are 3 groups here , Jews , Sheep and Goats !!
A person has to become a sheep if they want to be saved.

The Sheep are the GENTILES that go into the MILLENNIUM KINGDOM with the Jews and these are the GENTILES that are saved and GRAFTED into the olive tree !!

dan p

The ethnicity of people don't matter anymore since Jesus came.

There is no such thing as a Jewish person who is in right with God anymore if they are not a believer of Christ.

ALL WERE BOUND TO HELL, Jew and Gentile, everyone.

ALL NOW MUST COME TO GOD THE SAME WAY, through Jesus.

A Jew used to be a person BLOOD RELATED TO ABRAHAM.

God promised Abraham that the Savior would be a blood relative of his.

Since Jesus came, it only matters now if one is blood related to Jesus, i.e. one has repented to God and believes Jesus' blood washes those sins away.
 

Child of God

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ALL WERE BOUND TO HELL, Jew and Gentile, everyone.

.

Not according to Paul.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Is it not the New Covenant that is written in the Heart?

Therefore these Gentiles have the New Covenant already in their Heart.

Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts
 

God's Truth

New member
Not according to Paul.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Is it not the New Covenant that is written in the Heart?

Therefore these Gentiles have the New Covenant already in their Heart.

Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts

ALL are bound to the same place.

Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Romans 3:9
What then? Are we any better? Not at all. For we have already made the charge that Jews and Greeks alike are all under sin.

Romans 5:19
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Romans 11:31
so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.

Galatians 3:22
But the Scripture pronounces all things confined by sin, so that by faith in Jesus Christ the promise might be given to those who believe.

Galatians 3:23
Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the Law, locked up until faith should be revealed.
 

Child of God

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ALL are bound to the same place.

Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Romans 3:9
What then? Are we any better? Not at all. For we have already made the charge that Jews and Greeks alike are all under sin.

Romans 5:19
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Romans 11:31
so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.

Galatians 3:22
But the Scripture pronounces all things confined by sin, so that by faith in Jesus Christ the promise might be given to those who believe.

Galatians 3:23
Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the Law, locked up until faith should be revealed.

Paul says there is an exception to these things you have posted. Do you reject these words of Paul?



Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Is it not the New Covenant that is written in the Heart?

Therefore these Gentiles have the New Covenant already in their Heart.

Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts
 

God's Truth

New member
Paul says there is an exception to these things you have posted. Do you reject these words of Paul?



Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Is it not the New Covenant that is written in the Heart?

Therefore these Gentiles have the New Covenant already in their Heart.

Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts

The only way to have the COVENANT written on the heart is to believe and obey Jesus and receive the Holy Spirit.
 

Child of God

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Banned
The only way to have the COVENANT written on the heart is to believe and obey Jesus and receive the Holy Spirit.

Must I post these verses AGAIN.

Paul says that these have the Law written in their hearts

Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.

These Gentiles HAVE THE LAW WRITTEN in their hearts.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.


Apparently these Gentiles never having heard of Jesus or the Law have achieved the New Covenant.

So you laying burdens upon men that they can not do such a thing, is not consistent with Scripture.
 

God's Truth

New member
Must I post these verses AGAIN.

Paul says that these have the Law written in their hearts

Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.

These Gentiles HAVE THE LAW WRITTEN in their hearts.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.


Apparently these Gentiles never having heard of Jesus or the Law have achieved the New Covenant.

So you laying burdens upon men that they can not do such a thing, is not consistent with Scripture.

The Gentiles who believe and obey Jesus have the Holy Spirit and the new law written on their hearts.

2 Corinthians 3:6
And He has qualified us as ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Jeremiah 31:33 "This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

Hebrews 10:16 "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."

Hebrews 8:10
This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord. I will put My laws in their minds, and inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they will be My people.

Romans 11:27
And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins."

2 Corinthians 3:3
It is clear that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

1 Thessalonians 4:9
Now about brotherly love, you do not need anyone to write to you, because you yourselves have been taught by God to love one another.

1 Kings 8:58
that He may incline our hearts to Himself, to walk in all His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His ordinances, which He commanded our fathers.

Psalm 37:31
The law of his God is in his heart; His steps do not slip.

Psalm 40:8
I delight to do Your will, O my God; Your Law is within my heart."

Jeremiah 24:7
'I will give them a heart to know Me, for I am the LORD; and they will be My people, and I will be their God, for they will return to Me with their whole heart.

Jeremiah 30:22
'You shall be My people, And I will be your God.'"

Jeremiah 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not …
I will.

Deuteronomy 30:6 And the LORD your God will circumcise your heart, and the heart of …

Isaiah 51:7 Listen to me, you that know righteousness, the people in whose heart …
Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within …
Ezekiel 36:25-27 Then will I sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean: …
Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Romans 8:2-8 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free …
2 Corinthians 3:3,7,8 For as much as you are manifestly declared to be the letter of Christ …
Galatians 5:22,23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, …


Jeremiah 31:1 At the same time, said the LORD, will I be the God of all the families …
Jeremiah 24:7 And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the LORD: and …

Jeremiah 32:38 And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
Genesis 17:7,8 And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your seed …
Ezekiel 11:20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep my ordinances, and do …
Ezekiel 37:27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yes, I will be their God, …
 

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The Gentiles who believe and obey Jesus have the Holy Spirit and the new law written on their hearts.

2 Corinthians 3:6
And He has qualified us as ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Paul says nothing about Jesus and the Holy Spirit in these verses.
Paul says they have the Law written in their hearts.

Paul also does not say they Believe in Jesus, they have never HEARD of Jesus, but do the Law as by their very own nature.
 

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Romans 3:31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Romans 2:20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and truth—

Romans 8:4 so that the righteous standard of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Romans 2:15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Jeremiah 31:30 "This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove godlessness from Jacob. 27 And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.”
 

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Romans 3:31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Romans 2:20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and truth—

Romans 8:4 so that the righteous standard of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Romans 2:15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Jeremiah 31:30 "This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove godlessness from Jacob. 27 And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.”

These have the Law written in their hearts,

Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.

Having never heard of Jesus or the Law.

Are you going to tell God, they are not part of our clique therefore send them to Hell?
 

God's Truth

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These have the Law written in their hearts,

Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.

Having never heard of Jesus or the Law.

Are you going to tell God, they are not part of our clique therefore send them to Hell?

Why do you keep saying they never heard?

Give the scripture that says that.
 

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Why do you keep saying they never heard?

Give the scripture that says that.

Isa 66:19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.

Mat_13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
 

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Isa 66:19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.

Mat_13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

Those scripture don't say anything about the Gentiles not hearing yet having the covenant on their hearts.
 

beloved57

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In Romans 11:13 Paul is speaking to Gentile new testament saints. Paul is speaking to the new testament Gentiles, not Gentiles in the church, the body of Christ, who believed Paul's gospel. Paul by any means would provoke them which are of his flesh, the unbelieving Jews, to salvation.

This is truth mixed with error. For New Testament Gentiles are of the Church, the Body of Christ !
 

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Those scripture don't say anything about the Gentiles not hearing yet having the covenant on their hearts.

You are asking 2 different question now.

My first comment was that Paul says that Gentiles that do not have the law but do the Law have the law written on their heart, as Paul says.

Rom_2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

You then asked where does it say that they have not heard, so I gave you Scripture for that.

Now you are saying these questions must be joined together to form 1 question with 2 requirements.
 
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