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the seven heads
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the seven dynasties of the roman empire
Anto9us
New member
I am interested in the ambiguities of the Apocalypse regarding a "city of 7 hills' (which alludes to Rome
-- and a "city where also our Lord was cruficfied" which clearly would be Jerusalem -- though they are alluded to as Sodom, Babylon and Egypt
city where the Lord was crucified can only be Jerusalem
-- and a "city where also our Lord was cruficfied" which clearly would be Jerusalem -- though they are alluded to as Sodom, Babylon and Egypt
city where the Lord was crucified can only be Jerusalem
When the prince of the power of the air unclean spirit of the world is gone out of a man he walks through the dry-arid places seeking rest: and finding none, he says, I will return to my house from where I came out. And when he comes he finds it swept and garnished, (with idols). Then he goes and associates unto himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. And the eighth is of the seven because he is the first goat which was cast out into the desert in the commencement with all the sins upon his mortally wounded head, (for an atonement to be made at a later date which no man knows). No exceptions to the rule: each in his or her own appointed times, and none shall be alone in his appointed times. 
When the prince of the power of the air unclean spirit of the world is gone out of a man he walks through the dry-arid places seeking rest: and finding none, he says, I will return to my house from where I came out. And when he comes he finds it swept and garnished, (with idols). Then he goes and associates unto himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. And the eighth is of the seven because he is the first goat which was cast out into the desert in the commencement with all the sins upon his mortally wounded head, (for an atonement to be made at a later date which no man knows). No exceptions to the rule: each in his or her own appointed times, and none shall be alone in his appointed times.
Matthew 12:43 KJV - Matthew 12:44 KJV - Matthew 12:45 KJV -
Luke 11:24 KJV - Luke 11:25 KJV - Luke 11:26 KJV -
tell us more about the goat -
you connect that to Revelation 17:11 KJV - ?
It is a stream of typology running through and occurs in quite a few places one would not think unless he or she is paying close attention, and in prayer, seeking to understand the kingdom of Elohim, (which is within you). I will therefore attempt to begin with the typology from the beginning while first stating that the live goat is the sa`iyr to-for `Aza'zel. The High Priest lays his hands upon the head of the goat confessing all the sins of the people upon his head, (a mortal head wound). Then the twin goat is aphiemi-sent away into the wilderness of dry-arid desert places to roam the erets-outlands of Nod until a later appointed time of which no man knows the day or the hour. The sa`iyr goat, (seeking rest and finding none) then takes together in association with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself:
1) a nomad Iyradi-fugitive wandering spirit.
2) a blotted out Mchuyael stricken-smitten spirit.
3) a full grown Mthushael manly man-faced spirit.
4) a tent dwelling Yabal spirit acquiring cattle and fatlings of Bashan.
5) a musical Yubal spirit of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, psaltery, and dulcimer.
6) a feminine Naamah tribal spirit of pleasantness and pleasure.
7) a Tubal-Cain spirit of brass and iron who brings forth Cain.
So the eighth is of the seven because he is the first to go out from the man: but when he returns to the house, which is the man with all his land, he is the fully leavened lump mixed in with all the other seven. The same are called "permanent dwellers" upon the earth because although their names are written in the book of the dead, (Genesis 4) still yet they are never written to have lived, for their names are not found written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, (Genesis 5). Likewise there are seven mountains of the land which is the man: the Chittiy, the Girgashiy, the Emoriy, the Kanaaniy, the Prizziy, the Chiviy, and the Ybuciy, seven heathen nations greater and mightier than the sons of Yisrael. You shall smite them and utterly destroy them: you shall make no covenants with them nor show mercy unto them: neither shall you make marriages with them as in the days of Noach. You shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire. Beware of the anthropon-man-faced, for they are deceitful and work wilily: they cannot be seen with the eyes of the flesh, for anthropon-man-faced they are which creep in unaware as you feast in the Word. They will deliver you up to the sanhedrins, and they will scourge you in their synagogues, and you shall be brought before governors and kings for the sake of name of Yeshua, for a testimony against them and against the heathen. But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what you shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour of trial what you shall speak, for it is not you that speak but the Spirit of your Father which speaks in you. And when the power of the people is completely beaten asunder-- holiness, all these things shall be finished.
this is a tough one
and
the only way I can make it fit
is the kingdom of jerusalem
which ended 1291
but
not in jerusalem
but
in acre
seven dynasties of the roman empire
isaac newton believes the seven heads are the seven dynasties of the roman empire
"The heads are the seven successive dynasties, or parts, in which the Roman Empire becomes divided by the opening of he seven seals."
heads are the seven successive dynasties
you have to scroll down to page 245
"The heads are the seven successive dynasties, or parts, in which the Roman Empire becomes divided by the opening of he seven seals."
heads are the seven successive dynasties
you have to scroll down to page 245
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Interplanner
Well-known member
The Rev is not prognostication of world events. If a doctrine is not absolutely clear from a NT letter, do not generate it out of the Rev. It is a pastoral montage to help the 1st century Judean Christians as they had to leave everything and relocate in Little Asia.
this is not prophecy?
so
what is this?
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass
things which must shortly come to pass
1) How long is "shortly come to pass" according to you? Is it nearly 2000 years as if even now many things in the book are yet unfulfilled? If so then your understanding of the statement and the entire book immediately breaks Torah commandments and we are not to fear or pay any heed to that prophet, (Deuteronomy 18:22). This does not mean the prophet is wrong in this case but rather it is clearly YOUR OPINION of what he writes that is in critical error for disregarding what the Torah says concerning such things. The same applies to your understanding of the prophetic statements of Yeshua found in the Olivet Discourse because Peter clearly states that Yeshua is the Prophet of Deuteronomy 18:15-19 which is quoted by Luke in Acts 3:22-23. In addition, if one would honor the commandments that are set forth in Deuteronomy 18:15-22, then the same must acknowledge that the only way anyone could have adequately verified whether or not what the prophet said had followed, and his words had come to pass, would be to wait absolutely no more than the whole lifetime of the observer himself. Therefore anything more than seventy years is enough time to know whether or not what the prophet said has come to pass or not. Two thousand years is absolutely out of the question because no observer has a lifespan of nearly two thousand years to wait around and see if what the prophet says will come to pass or not. In other words you are dreaming if you think your understanding complies with reality and the reality of what is written in the Torah. Your understanding is therefore invalid because the words of your version of the prophet never came to pass in an acceptable amount of time in which anyone living at the time the words were spoken could have verified as having come to pass.
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him,
2) Do you suppose Yeshua sat down at the right hand of God upon being resurrected and then some 65 years later, around 95 AD/CE, Yeshua received a new revelation from the Father? How do you expect anyone to believe such nonsense? How can the one who is seated at the right hand of God receive any more revelation than has already been received? And especially 65 years or so AFTER he already sat down at the right hand of God? Would not such a one already know everything there is to know? How can he receive any more revelation whatsoever? It appears your understanding of the entire book does not even get past the opening statement without falling apart. The Son of God cannot have received the Revelation after being resurrected and seated at the right hand of the Father. In fact the scripture actually states when Yeshua was in the wilderness forty days fasting, and tempted of the Satan, that he was also with the wild beasts, which is the same word "therion" that is employed throughout the book of the Revelation of Yeshua in both singular and plural forms:
Mark 1:13 KJV
13. And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; [GSN#2342 therion] and the angels ministered unto him.
3) Do you think Yeshua was with literal-physical lions, bears, and leopards in the desert or, even worse, the evil empires of Babylon, Media-Persia, and Yavan? :crackup:
everready
New member
There is likewise much more evidence in the Scripture itself, regarding who penned the Book of the Revelation of Messiah Yeshua, and if one believes what is written over and above the church father speculations and elaborations then the same can know that circa 95AD/CE is completely out of the question:
Matthew 11:10-15 KJV
10. For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
11. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
12. And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
13. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
14. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
15. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Of men having been born of women there had arisen none greater than Yochanan the Immerser, none, period, (for Messiah is not born of a woman). Likewise, if one will receive it, Yochana the Immerser is Eliyahu. And again, in the Textus Receptus version of Luke, Yeshua also states that of men having been born of women there had not arisen a greater prophet than Yochanan the Immerser:
Luke 7:28 KJV
28. For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
If therefore Yochanan the Immerser is the greatest of all the prophets out of men having been born of women then where are the writings of Yochanan the Immerser?
Luke 7:19-24 ~ Yochanan Eliyahu the Immerser, having been praying and writing in the Machaerus Patmos-Prison of Herod during the Day Kuriake, (which acceptable Great Day of YHWH commences in Luke 4:17-21) calls unto him a certain duo of his talmidim and sends them unto the Master Yeshua, saying, Are you the one coming or should we watch for another? And the andres-men having approached Yeshua say unto him: Yochanan the Immerser has sent us unto you, saying, Are you the one coming or should we watch for another? And in that hour many were cured of diseases, and plagues, and evil spirits; and on many that were blind, sight was bestowed.
And Yeshua responding COMMANDS them:
Go forth, and announce to Yochanan what things you have seen and heard:
1) The blind see:
2) The lame walk:
3) The lepers are cleansed:
4) The deaf hear:
5) The dead are awakened:
6) To the poor the good news is proclaimed:
7) And blessed is he whosoever is not offended in me!
So the TWO ANGELON depart to Yochanan and announce to him all these things:
And Seven Thunders utter their voices . . .
Machaerus-Patmos Fortress Prison of Herod
Machaerus
When Yochanan penned the words, "things which must shortly come to pass", he indeed meant them literally and immediately within the same Kuriaki-Day of YHWH that had commenced in Luke 4:17-21 according to the command of Messiah Yeshua the Commander of the Covenant. Yochanan likewise meant the same words truly in accordance with Torah commandments concerning such things as prophets and prophecy. And those things occurred first and foremost at Olivet Moriah Golgotha, and then afterwards to those who follow in the footsteps of Messiah, in Messiah, crucified with Messiah, each in his or her own appointed times which appointed times are appointed by the Father, (when a child becomes a son).
Matthew 11:10-15 KJV
10. For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
11. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
12. And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
13. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
14. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
15. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Of men having been born of women there had arisen none greater than Yochanan the Immerser, none, period, (for Messiah is not born of a woman). Likewise, if one will receive it, Yochana the Immerser is Eliyahu. And again, in the Textus Receptus version of Luke, Yeshua also states that of men having been born of women there had not arisen a greater prophet than Yochanan the Immerser:
Luke 7:28 KJV
28. For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
If therefore Yochanan the Immerser is the greatest of all the prophets out of men having been born of women then where are the writings of Yochanan the Immerser?
Luke 7:19-24 ~ Yochanan Eliyahu the Immerser, having been praying and writing in the Machaerus Patmos-Prison of Herod during the Day Kuriake, (which acceptable Great Day of YHWH commences in Luke 4:17-21) calls unto him a certain duo of his talmidim and sends them unto the Master Yeshua, saying, Are you the one coming or should we watch for another? And the andres-men having approached Yeshua say unto him: Yochanan the Immerser has sent us unto you, saying, Are you the one coming or should we watch for another? And in that hour many were cured of diseases, and plagues, and evil spirits; and on many that were blind, sight was bestowed.
And Yeshua responding COMMANDS them:
Go forth, and announce to Yochanan what things you have seen and heard:
1) The blind see:
2) The lame walk:
3) The lepers are cleansed:
4) The deaf hear:
5) The dead are awakened:
6) To the poor the good news is proclaimed:
7) And blessed is he whosoever is not offended in me!
So the TWO ANGELON depart to Yochanan and announce to him all these things:
And Seven Thunders utter their voices . . .
Machaerus-Patmos Fortress Prison of Herod
Machaerus
When Yochanan penned the words, "things which must shortly come to pass", he indeed meant them literally and immediately within the same Kuriaki-Day of YHWH that had commenced in Luke 4:17-21 according to the command of Messiah Yeshua the Commander of the Covenant. Yochanan likewise meant the same words truly in accordance with Torah commandments concerning such things as prophets and prophecy. And those things occurred first and foremost at Olivet Moriah Golgotha, and then afterwards to those who follow in the footsteps of Messiah, in Messiah, crucified with Messiah, each in his or her own appointed times which appointed times are appointed by the Father, (when a child becomes a son).
Well he was after all "the half of the kingdom" right? Herod swore it by oath, (Mark 6:23, Herod quoting Ahasuerus-Xerxes, Esther 5:3, 5:6, 7:2) and why else would that old battle axe Herodias the queen desire the head of Yochanan Eliyahu be delivered on a pinaki writing tablet? (Matthew 14:8, 11, Mark 6:25, 28, Luke 1:63). Perhaps she wanted to know what else about her and her new hubby might be found in the "diary" of Yochanan? After all that is the very reason Herod seized him and shut him up in the prison, (for rebuking Herod over marrying his brother Philip's wife, Herodias).
Mark 9:13
13. But I say unto you, That Eliyahu is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they desired, as it is written of him.
Where is it written of Eliyahu that they would do unto him whatsoever they desired and karath-cut-off his head? Perhaps the priests are sometimes understood as Nashiym? Yes indeed, and of those born of nashiym there had arisen none greater than Yochanan!
Zechariah 14:1-2
1. Behold, the day of YHWH comes, and your spoil shall be divided in the midst of you.
2. For I will gather all nations against Yerushalaim to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the nashiym ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, (Yochanan is the half of the kingdom and holds it in his head) and the residue of the people shall not be karath-cut-off from the city.
Did Yochanan go into captivity? Yes, to the fortress prison of Herod at Macherus. Not long after, (at the blood moon) he was karath-beheaded-cut-off. This word karath is indeed used in multiple places for beheading, (1 Samuel 17:51, 1 Samuel 31:9, 2 Samuel 20:22) and likewise appears in Daniel 9:26 concerning the mashiyach anointed one therein, (but not the Nagiyd-Commander of the Covenant, Yeshua).
By the way that passage from 2 Samuel 20:22, which was referenced in the previous post above, also pertains to your thread title:
2 Samuel 20:21-22 KJV
21. The matter is not so: but a man of mount Ephraim, Sheba the son of Bichri by name, hath lifted up his hand against the king, even against David: deliver him only, and I will depart from the city. And the woman said unto Joab, Behold, his head shall be thrown to thee over the wall.
22. Then the woman went unto all the people in her wisdom. And they cut off [karath] the head of Sheba the son of Bichri, and cast it out to Joab. And he blew a trumpet, And they retired from the city, every man to his tent. And Joab returned to Jerusalem unto the king.
They karath-cut-off the head of Sheba but his name means Seven. It is like a masculine typology of the queen of the south, (Sheba) but nevertheless the typology is along the same lines. The queen of the south rises up in the judgment according to the Testimony of Yeshua, (Matthew 12:42). At first it may seem like a marriage made in the heavens because her doctrines are so enticing and delightful. But by the end of the times knowledge has increased and one begins to understand that perhaps it has become more like a marriage as in the days of Noah: a great lioness given the heart of the man, a she-bear robbed of her cubs, a four headed leopardess, and a terrible seventh head with great iron teeth like swords and jaw teeth like knives. Who shall live when God does this? And when the Son of man comes will he find faith in your earth? Each in his or her own appointed times, (and none shall be alone in his appointed times). :chuckle:
2 Samuel 20:21-22 KJV
21. The matter is not so: but a man of mount Ephraim, Sheba the son of Bichri by name, hath lifted up his hand against the king, even against David: deliver him only, and I will depart from the city. And the woman said unto Joab, Behold, his head shall be thrown to thee over the wall.
22. Then the woman went unto all the people in her wisdom. And they cut off [karath] the head of Sheba the son of Bichri, and cast it out to Joab. And he blew a trumpet, And they retired from the city, every man to his tent. And Joab returned to Jerusalem unto the king.
They karath-cut-off the head of Sheba but his name means Seven. It is like a masculine typology of the queen of the south, (Sheba) but nevertheless the typology is along the same lines. The queen of the south rises up in the judgment according to the Testimony of Yeshua, (Matthew 12:42). At first it may seem like a marriage made in the heavens because her doctrines are so enticing and delightful. But by the end of the times knowledge has increased and one begins to understand that perhaps it has become more like a marriage as in the days of Noah: a great lioness given the heart of the man, a she-bear robbed of her cubs, a four headed leopardess, and a terrible seventh head with great iron teeth like swords and jaw teeth like knives. Who shall live when God does this? And when the Son of man comes will he find faith in your earth? Each in his or her own appointed times, (and none shall be alone in his appointed times). :chuckle:
counting dynasties makes more sense
and
it fits
and
it fits