The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Another popular Myth in the religious world today, is the Jesus Christ died or gave His Life for everyone in the world without exception, but the problem with that, is there is not one shred of scripture evidence that states that.

The scripture however does say that He died for His Sheep or His Church as per Jn 10:11,15

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Eph 5:25

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

His People Isa 53:8

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. cp Matt 1:21

Now, are all without exception His Sheep ? No

Are all without exception His Church ? No

Are all without exception His People ? No

For surely the seed of the serpent Gen 3:15 cannot be of His Sheep, His Church, or His People.

So why does the religous world proclaim that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception, when they have no scripture proof ? Because it is a Myth.
 
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godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Where does it say that God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent? The principle is taught without the exact words, duh.

TULIP is tradition vs truth and is not the gospel.

The perfect objective provision intended and sufficient for all men is not subjectively appropriated by all men (we can receive/reject Christ). God's love is unlimited, but we are able to respond or reject due to the nature of reciprocal love relationships.
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
godrulz said:
The perfect objective provision intended and sufficient for all men is not subjectively appropriated by all men (we can receive/reject Christ).
Click to expand...

That is because the "objective provision" did not include all men. (John 5:21)

And sinners can only "receive" the benefits of Christ's cross work, when and if the Father draws them to faith in Him. (John 6:44)

That is because the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ was substitutional, according to covenant promises made to an elect people. And that covenant was ratified by the blood of Christ and guaranteed through the person of Christ as surety of the covenant.

IOW's, any soul who has been given the surety of Christ, cannot ever lose their justification or fail to know ultimate salvation. To say otherwise, declares God to be a liar and a cheat.

The Father has promised life to a chosen people; the Son substituted His life and flesh and blood for those very people; the Holy Spirit irresistibly calls and draws those named people to faith in Jesus Christ, and guarantees them everlasting life. (Ephesians 1:13-14)

This is the surety of the Christian faith . . . and all other gospel messages are not only myths and unscriptural, but outright lies from the devil.

Nang
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
nang:

The Father has promised life to a chosen people;
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Yes, His Elect, Chosen in Christ before the world began titus 1:

1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
 
Arthur Brain

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Nang said:
That is because the "objective provision" did not include all men. (John 5:21)

And sinners can only "receive" the benefits of Christ's cross work, when and if the Father draws them to faith in Him. (John 6:44)

That is because the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ was substitutional, according to covenant promises made to an elect people. And that covenant was ratified by the blood of Christ and guaranteed through the person of Christ as surety of the covenant.

IOW's, any soul who has been given the surety of Christ, cannot ever lose their justification or fail to know ultimate salvation. To say otherwise, declares God to be a liar and a cheat.

The Father has promised life to a chosen people; the Son substituted His life and flesh and blood for those very people; the Holy Spirit irresistibly calls and draws those named people to faith in Jesus Christ, and guarantees them everlasting life. (Ephesians 1:13-14)

This is the surety of the Christian faith . . . and all other gospel messages are not only myths and unscriptural, but outright lies from the devil.

Nang
Click to expand...

Um, why would the devil even need to lie if it's only the predestined 'chosen' who are going to be saved anyway? What difference would that make if it's already a 'done deal' and irrevocable? So what, the devil decides to invent a whole gamut of 'heresies' that wouldn't alter anything regardless? :squint:

Um, ya, that makes sense......

What a selfish and limiting doctrine you have. The requisite 'I'm no more deserving' than the 'non elect' just rings sickeningly hollow, not to mention the twisting and lack of logic...

:rain:
 
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blackbirdking

New member
beloved57 said:
Another popular Myth in the religious world today, is the Jesus Christ died or gave His Life for everyone in the world without exception, but the problem with that, is there is not one shred of scripture evidence that states that.

The scripture however does say that He died for His Sheep or His Church as per Jn 10:

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

eph 5:

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

His People Isa 53:

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. cp Matt 1:21

Now, are all without exception His Sheep ? No

Are all without exception His Church ? No

Are all without exception His People ? No

For surely the seed of the serpent Gen 3:15 cannot be of His Sheep, His Church, or His People.

So why does the religous world proclaim that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception, when they have no scripture proof ? Because it is a Myth.
Click to expand...

Do you beleive "by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation"? Romans 5:18
 
steko

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
IT ain't no myth!

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned--every one--to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
steko said:
IT ain't no myth!

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned--every one--to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Click to expand...

Where do you see in that verse where it says Christ died for all men without exception ?

This passage is speaking about all the Sheep, Gods People.

Isa 53:

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

The Prophet did not mean the amakelites, the philistines and every human being in the world.
 
steko

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
beloved57 said:
Where do you see in that verse where it says Christ died for all men without exception ?

This passage is speaking about all the Sheep, Gods People.

Isa 53:

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

The Prophet did not mean the amakelites, the philistines and every human being in the world.
Click to expand...

Yes, there is no question that Isaiah is speaking of the Israelites.
But have they all obtained salvation through HIS work of the cross?
I don't think so. Nevertheless it says 'all'.
So it seems to me that provision was made for all, but not all have benefited.

What event obtains your salvation?
Is it an event other than the one spoken of by Isaiah?
Or is it the same one?
Obviously it's the same one or Christ would have to make substitution more than once.
The Church, composed of Jew and Gentile with equality is a mystery in the OT.
Though Isaiah is speaking specifically about his brethren, the atonement is provided for all of Adam.
If Isaiah's words mean only the sins of Israel were laid on him then you and I are yet in our sins.

Heb 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone

Heb 9:12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

1Jn 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.


What does, "the sins of the whole world" mean?

2Co 5:19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them,
 
steko

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Isa 42:1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen/elect one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.

The Messiah/Jesus is GOD's 'elect'.

We become part of the election when we turn to GOD and trust in Christ's work upon the cross.
 
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godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
steko said:
Isa 42:1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen/elect one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.

The Messiah/Jesus is GOD's 'elect'.

We become part of the election when we turn to GOD and trust in Christ's work upon the cross.
Click to expand...


Election is in Christ, conditional, corporate. Election is not decretal, individual, eternal.
 
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