What do you do about Hebrews 2:9 and about 25 other scriptures that say Christ died for the sins of the world?
The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
What do you do about Hebrews 2:9 and about 25 other scriptures that say Christ died for the sins of the world?
beloved57
Well-known member
pate
I have already delt with that scripture before:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73661&page=3
See posts 30 and 31
I have already delt with that scripture before:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73661&page=3
See posts 30 and 31
Damian
New member
Do you consider yourself part of the "elect?"
beloved57
Well-known member
This thread is not about me, it is about, the Atonement, and what it did accomplish !
beloved57
Well-known member
The declared Blessing of Rom 4:25
All those Jesus Christ died for are by His Death made Righteous Rom 5:19, first and foremost before God, and this is their Justification, this is True because Paul states before, in regards to all for whom He died, that He was delivered on account of our sins or Transgressions, this was because they had been charged to Him 1 Cor 15:3
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for [for the sake of] our sins according to the scriptures; 2 Cor 5:21
21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Note: In order for Christ to have died for sin, the sins had to be charged to Him !
And He was raised again on account of our Justification, because their Justification was an accomplished Fact Rom 4:25
25Who was delivered for [on account of]our offences, and was raised again for[on account of] our justification.
Now if Christ died and rose again for an Individual in 33 ad, and this individual or individuals were not physically born sinners until 1960ad, this sinner or sinners are born already Justified, unless we undo the accomplished fact that the resurrection of Christ verified ! If all for whom Christ died for the sake of, had not been Justified or made Righteous before God, by His obedience unto Death [Phil 2:8], then He could not have or would not have been raised from the dead, and all for whom He did die would still be in their sins ! 1 Cor 15:17. You see the resurrection took place as a consequence of the Justification of all Christ died for, in the same manner, His death occurred as a consequence of the sins of all He died for. The Resurrection proved that God had been fully satisfied and propitiated, and all our sins forgiven, at the Blood of Christ !
All those Jesus Christ died for are by His Death made Righteous Rom 5:19, first and foremost before God, and this is their Justification, this is True because Paul states before, in regards to all for whom He died, that He was delivered on account of our sins or Transgressions, this was because they had been charged to Him 1 Cor 15:3
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for [for the sake of] our sins according to the scriptures; 2 Cor 5:21
21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Note: In order for Christ to have died for sin, the sins had to be charged to Him !
And He was raised again on account of our Justification, because their Justification was an accomplished Fact Rom 4:25
25Who was delivered for [on account of]our offences, and was raised again for[on account of] our justification.
Now if Christ died and rose again for an Individual in 33 ad, and this individual or individuals were not physically born sinners until 1960ad, this sinner or sinners are born already Justified, unless we undo the accomplished fact that the resurrection of Christ verified ! If all for whom Christ died for the sake of, had not been Justified or made Righteous before God, by His obedience unto Death [Phil 2:8], then He could not have or would not have been raised from the dead, and all for whom He did die would still be in their sins ! 1 Cor 15:17. You see the resurrection took place as a consequence of the Justification of all Christ died for, in the same manner, His death occurred as a consequence of the sins of all He died for. The Resurrection proved that God had been fully satisfied and propitiated, and all our sins forgiven, at the Blood of Christ !
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I don't consider this a legitimate conversation since all we do is based on instincts and thought processes god created. if all god created was perfect how can we call what we do sins. Don't answer if you are catholic, if you think being born is a sin you could rationalize the purges.
beloved57
Well-known member
None shall be Lost whom Christ died for !
Jn 6:37-40
37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
The christ of antichrist religions will loose many he intended to save ! The anti christ jesus died to save millions, and yet the gates of hell prevailed against them, and they shall hear these words in the day of Judgment Matt 7:23
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Their iniquities as we can read here were held against them in the day of Judgment ! This in spite of the fact that supposedly their iniquities were charged to him Isa 53:6
6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
The word laid here is the hebrew word paga` and means:
to encounter, meet, reach, entreat, make intercession
a) (Qal)
1) to meet, light upon, join
2) to meet (of kindness)
3) to encounter, fall upon (of hostility)
4) to encounter, entreat (of request)
5) to strike, touch (of boundary)
The idea here is that God caused our iniquities to fall upon Him !
The NASB: All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him.
God caused our Punishment to meet upon Him for our iniquities !
However the anti christ ministers says many, millions for whom this occurred, shall here yet the dreadful words from Christ mouth Matt 7:23
That means they were lost, they perished. Now the Christ that I know and Preach of, did not Loose any, none for whom He died shall Perish.
He can always boast Jn 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Jn 18:9
That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.
Jesus gave one exception, the son of perdition, however none that He died for can go into perdition. Only those whose names that were not written in the book of life from the foundation shall meet with such an end Rev 17:8
8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
You see, all those whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation, shall follow and worship the beast of perdition Rev 13:8
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
None for whom Christ died shall go into perdition, or be lost, but every last one of them shall hear these words from their Saviour King Matt 25:34
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
You know why Jesus said the Kingdom was prepared for them from the foundation of the world, before they even had being ? Because that's when their names were written in the book of Life, from the foundation of the world ! They are the antithesis of these Rev 13:8
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. or Rev 17:8
8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
What caused them to differ ? God's Eternal Elective Love, that's it. What Christ do you follow today ? The one that millions for whom he died shall shall still go into perdition, be lost, or the One that None for whom He died shall be Lost ?
Jn 6:37-40
37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
The christ of antichrist religions will loose many he intended to save ! The anti christ jesus died to save millions, and yet the gates of hell prevailed against them, and they shall hear these words in the day of Judgment Matt 7:23
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Their iniquities as we can read here were held against them in the day of Judgment ! This in spite of the fact that supposedly their iniquities were charged to him Isa 53:6
6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
The word laid here is the hebrew word paga` and means:
to encounter, meet, reach, entreat, make intercession
a) (Qal)
1) to meet, light upon, join
2) to meet (of kindness)
3) to encounter, fall upon (of hostility)
4) to encounter, entreat (of request)
5) to strike, touch (of boundary)
The idea here is that God caused our iniquities to fall upon Him !
The NASB: All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him.
God caused our Punishment to meet upon Him for our iniquities !
However the anti christ ministers says many, millions for whom this occurred, shall here yet the dreadful words from Christ mouth Matt 7:23
That means they were lost, they perished. Now the Christ that I know and Preach of, did not Loose any, none for whom He died shall Perish.
He can always boast Jn 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Jn 18:9
That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.
Jesus gave one exception, the son of perdition, however none that He died for can go into perdition. Only those whose names that were not written in the book of life from the foundation shall meet with such an end Rev 17:8
8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
You see, all those whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation, shall follow and worship the beast of perdition Rev 13:8
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
None for whom Christ died shall go into perdition, or be lost, but every last one of them shall hear these words from their Saviour King Matt 25:34
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
You know why Jesus said the Kingdom was prepared for them from the foundation of the world, before they even had being ? Because that's when their names were written in the book of Life, from the foundation of the world ! They are the antithesis of these Rev 13:8
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. or Rev 17:8
8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
What caused them to differ ? God's Eternal Elective Love, that's it. What Christ do you follow today ? The one that millions for whom he died shall shall still go into perdition, be lost, or the One that None for whom He died shall be Lost ?
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beloved57
Well-known member
The Lord will not impute sin
Rom 4:8
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
The word impute means :
to reckon, count, compute, calculate, count over
a) to take into account, to make an account of
1) metaph. to pass to one's account, to impute
For those Christ died for, who had their sins imputed to Him, or Charged to Him, those are the men that are Blessed in Rom 4:8, because God, having imputed their sins to Christ, will not imputed sin unto them !
Thats another accomplishment of the Atonement, Because sins have been already paid for by Christ's Death, those sins can never be charged to those same ones that had their sins charged to Christ. The strength of sin is the Law.
No one Christ died for owes any debt of sin against God's Law. That goes for Believer or Unbeliever who Christ died for, because Christ has already paid their debt to God's Law and Justice. This is a fact whether it is believed or not, even though in due time this fact will be made known to all for whom Christ died.
Rom 4:8
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
The word impute means :
to reckon, count, compute, calculate, count over
a) to take into account, to make an account of
1) metaph. to pass to one's account, to impute
For those Christ died for, who had their sins imputed to Him, or Charged to Him, those are the men that are Blessed in Rom 4:8, because God, having imputed their sins to Christ, will not imputed sin unto them !
Thats another accomplishment of the Atonement, Because sins have been already paid for by Christ's Death, those sins can never be charged to those same ones that had their sins charged to Christ. The strength of sin is the Law.
No one Christ died for owes any debt of sin against God's Law. That goes for Believer or Unbeliever who Christ died for, because Christ has already paid their debt to God's Law and Justice. This is a fact whether it is believed or not, even though in due time this fact will be made known to all for whom Christ died.
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beloved57
Well-known member
It took away our sins, if He died for you !
Another accomplishment of the Death of Christ for all whom He died, He has taken away their sins, forever !
John the Baptist had it right when he stated this fact Jn 1:29
29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
The world here cannot mean every single person in the world without exception, because Jesus makes it clear that some shall die in their sins John 8:24
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
If they had sins they could die in, then Christ did not take them away as the lamb of God, simple as that !
But world here identifies the scope of which those whose sins have been taken away are word wide, bot jew and gentile !
And Christ bare them away, removed them as far as the east is from the west as David said Ps 103:12
12As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
The word removed is the hebrew word rachaq:
to be or become far, be or become distant, be removed, go far away
a) (Qal) to be far, be distant
b) (Piel) to send far away, extend
c) (Hiphil)
1) to make or exhibit distance, be gone far
2) to remove, put far away
2) (Niphal) loose
The Ideal is like that of the scapegoat on the Day of Atonement, observe Lev 16:21-22
21And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:
22And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.
But as you can see, the type here pertained to only ethnic jews of Israel who were Nationally a Chosen People, but John makes it clear that the Antitype, Christ, He took away the sins of people all over the world, the gentiles also !
Now other scriptures that prove that those Christ died for, it was for the purpose of taking away their sins 1 Jn 3:5
5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1 Jn 4:10
10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. or to take away our sins by appeasing Divine Law and Justice on our Behalf !
Daniel prophesying of this Great work accomplished by Christ for His People states it Like this Dan 9:24
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Daniel here is really saying the same thing as John in Jn 1:29.
So none for whom Christ died has one sin to be punished for, not even unbelief, which is a one of the many sins Christ made an end of !
Another accomplishment of the Death of Christ for all whom He died, He has taken away their sins, forever !
John the Baptist had it right when he stated this fact Jn 1:29
29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
The world here cannot mean every single person in the world without exception, because Jesus makes it clear that some shall die in their sins John 8:24
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
If they had sins they could die in, then Christ did not take them away as the lamb of God, simple as that !
But world here identifies the scope of which those whose sins have been taken away are word wide, bot jew and gentile !
And Christ bare them away, removed them as far as the east is from the west as David said Ps 103:12
12As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
The word removed is the hebrew word rachaq:
to be or become far, be or become distant, be removed, go far away
a) (Qal) to be far, be distant
b) (Piel) to send far away, extend
c) (Hiphil)
1) to make or exhibit distance, be gone far
2) to remove, put far away
2) (Niphal) loose
The Ideal is like that of the scapegoat on the Day of Atonement, observe Lev 16:21-22
21And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:
22And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.
But as you can see, the type here pertained to only ethnic jews of Israel who were Nationally a Chosen People, but John makes it clear that the Antitype, Christ, He took away the sins of people all over the world, the gentiles also !
Now other scriptures that prove that those Christ died for, it was for the purpose of taking away their sins 1 Jn 3:5
5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1 Jn 4:10
10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. or to take away our sins by appeasing Divine Law and Justice on our Behalf !
Daniel prophesying of this Great work accomplished by Christ for His People states it Like this Dan 9:24
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Daniel here is really saying the same thing as John in Jn 1:29.
So none for whom Christ died has one sin to be punished for, not even unbelief, which is a one of the many sins Christ made an end of !
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beloved57
Well-known member
The Accomplishments of Christ ! Redeem from all iniquity
What did the Death of Christ actually accomplish for all whom He died for ? You know there is no Preaching Christ and Him crucified 1 Cor 1:23;2:2 as a object of Faith if what He accomplished and effected are not publicized, as well as whom He accomplished it for. Now did the Death of Christ redeem from all iniquity those He gave Himself for ? Lets read Titus 2:14-15
14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
And notice the beginning of vs15 Paul said " Speak these things" or Preach them. Paul was telling Titus to Preach these Truths of the Gospel, what Christ has done. Peter wrote of the same things about Christ redemptive effects 1 Pet 1:18-19
18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
However the False Gospel, preached by false witnesses, tell us that Christ's Death does not redeem all for whom He died, but that it [His Death] merely makes all men without exception redeemable !
What did the Death of Christ actually accomplish for all whom He died for ? You know there is no Preaching Christ and Him crucified 1 Cor 1:23;2:2 as a object of Faith if what He accomplished and effected are not publicized, as well as whom He accomplished it for. Now did the Death of Christ redeem from all iniquity those He gave Himself for ? Lets read Titus 2:14-15
14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
And notice the beginning of vs15 Paul said " Speak these things" or Preach them. Paul was telling Titus to Preach these Truths of the Gospel, what Christ has done. Peter wrote of the same things about Christ redemptive effects 1 Pet 1:18-19
18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
However the False Gospel, preached by false witnesses, tell us that Christ's Death does not redeem all for whom He died, but that it [His Death] merely makes all men without exception redeemable !
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beloved57
Well-known member
Redeem from all iniquity continued
To teach that Christ's Death only made redemption from all iniquity, for those He died, merely possible for everyone without exception, is against Christ, for its against, opposed to the real Truth of what Christ actually accomplished and effected for all for whom He died. He actually did redeem them from all iniquity. The word from see Titus 2:14 is the greek word apo and means:
of separation
a) of local separation, after verbs of motion from a place i.e. of departing, of fleeing, ...
b) of separation of a part from the whole
1) where of a whole some part is taken
c) of any kind of separation of one thing from another by which the union or fellowship of the two is destroyed
His Death separates them He died for from iniquity of which the rest of the world lies in see 1 Jn 5:19
He destroys their union with the world, flesh and the devil !
He as Peter proclaims redeems them from a vain conversation, or manner of life 1 Pet 1 Pet 1:18-21
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from [ek away from] your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
He redeems them from unbelief or being unbelievers, unto Faith in God 1 Pet 1:21 " that your faith and hope might be in God"
His resurrection, from His redemptive death, for all whom He died and redeemed, was for the purpose of causing them to have Faith and Hope in God, which confirms what he wrote earlier in the letter 1 Pet 1:3
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
His Resurrection from the dead caused them to be born again to a Living Hope, the same Hope of 1 Pet 1:21. This Lively Hope is also Faith, translated so in Heb 10:23
23Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised )
As you can see, this Hope or Faith is a redemptive benefit, coming out of the Resurrection of Christ from the Dead, those who deny this, preach a false Gospel, and deny Redemption by His Blood .
To teach that Christ's Death only made redemption from all iniquity, for those He died, merely possible for everyone without exception, is against Christ, for its against, opposed to the real Truth of what Christ actually accomplished and effected for all for whom He died. He actually did redeem them from all iniquity. The word from see Titus 2:14 is the greek word apo and means:
of separation
a) of local separation, after verbs of motion from a place i.e. of departing, of fleeing, ...
b) of separation of a part from the whole
1) where of a whole some part is taken
c) of any kind of separation of one thing from another by which the union or fellowship of the two is destroyed
His Death separates them He died for from iniquity of which the rest of the world lies in see 1 Jn 5:19
He destroys their union with the world, flesh and the devil !
He as Peter proclaims redeems them from a vain conversation, or manner of life 1 Pet 1 Pet 1:18-21
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from [ek away from] your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
He redeems them from unbelief or being unbelievers, unto Faith in God 1 Pet 1:21 " that your faith and hope might be in God"
His resurrection, from His redemptive death, for all whom He died and redeemed, was for the purpose of causing them to have Faith and Hope in God, which confirms what he wrote earlier in the letter 1 Pet 1:3
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
His Resurrection from the dead caused them to be born again to a Living Hope, the same Hope of 1 Pet 1:21. This Lively Hope is also Faith, translated so in Heb 10:23
23Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised )
As you can see, this Hope or Faith is a redemptive benefit, coming out of the Resurrection of Christ from the Dead, those who deny this, preach a false Gospel, and deny Redemption by His Blood .
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beloved57
Well-known member
He accomplished Reconciliation !
Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
He accomplished Reconciliation , that is, His Death ALONE has reconciled to God ALL for whom He died, that is precisely what the verse tells us. This reconciliation is Two Fold, it is objective, by which all the elect of God, of all time, by Christ's Death ALONE, have been reconciled to God, not that they were made reconcilable, but actually reconciled, a finished transaction, a done deal !
Can a person be reconciled to God by the Death of His Son and be a Unbeliever and at enmity with God by Nature ? Yes, of course. Paul in Rom 5:10 is stating to Believers, that WHEN or WHILE we were Enemies of God, even THEN, we had been Reconciled to God by the Death of His Son. You see when a sinner who Christ died for , and His Death had satisfied God's Law and Justice on their behalf, those sinners, who are born dead in trespasses and sins Eph 2:5, who are born as OTHERS , by Nature Children of Wrath Eph 2:3, Who are born by nature Ungodly in their manner of life Rom 5:6 , All such differ from from all others who are born in the same condition, these have already objectively been reconciled to God by the Death of His Son, and to all of them is the PROMISE GIVEN, that they shall be SAVED [ Subjective Reconciliation or Conversion which includes being given both Faith and Repentance] BY HIS LIFE !
To deny this subjective reconciliation to any for whom Christ died, is a denial of the Gospel, the Word of Reconciliation; And since it is obvious from other portions of scripture that everyone in the world without exception shall not be saved by His Life, then reason would tell us that the World in 2 Cor 5:19 is limited to only those that actually Saved by His Life Rom 5:10. So the conclusion is this, If anyone in that world of 2 Cor 5:19 is not saved by Christ's Life as promised in Rom 5:10b, then the scripture has been proven to be false, and Paul and the other Apostles are found to be False Witnesses ! However, I am absolutely SURE that the Scripture is True and that the Christ I witness of did actually accomplish and effected reconciliation to God for all whom He died, and not one shall be Lost..
Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
He accomplished Reconciliation , that is, His Death ALONE has reconciled to God ALL for whom He died, that is precisely what the verse tells us. This reconciliation is Two Fold, it is objective, by which all the elect of God, of all time, by Christ's Death ALONE, have been reconciled to God, not that they were made reconcilable, but actually reconciled, a finished transaction, a done deal !
Can a person be reconciled to God by the Death of His Son and be a Unbeliever and at enmity with God by Nature ? Yes, of course. Paul in Rom 5:10 is stating to Believers, that WHEN or WHILE we were Enemies of God, even THEN, we had been Reconciled to God by the Death of His Son. You see when a sinner who Christ died for , and His Death had satisfied God's Law and Justice on their behalf, those sinners, who are born dead in trespasses and sins Eph 2:5, who are born as OTHERS , by Nature Children of Wrath Eph 2:3, Who are born by nature Ungodly in their manner of life Rom 5:6 , All such differ from from all others who are born in the same condition, these have already objectively been reconciled to God by the Death of His Son, and to all of them is the PROMISE GIVEN, that they shall be SAVED [ Subjective Reconciliation or Conversion which includes being given both Faith and Repentance] BY HIS LIFE !
To deny this subjective reconciliation to any for whom Christ died, is a denial of the Gospel, the Word of Reconciliation; And since it is obvious from other portions of scripture that everyone in the world without exception shall not be saved by His Life, then reason would tell us that the World in 2 Cor 5:19 is limited to only those that actually Saved by His Life Rom 5:10. So the conclusion is this, If anyone in that world of 2 Cor 5:19 is not saved by Christ's Life as promised in Rom 5:10b, then the scripture has been proven to be false, and Paul and the other Apostles are found to be False Witnesses ! However, I am absolutely SURE that the Scripture is True and that the Christ I witness of did actually accomplish and effected reconciliation to God for all whom He died, and not one shall be Lost..
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beloved57
Well-known member
It put away the sins of those He died for !
The Lord Jesus Christ, the God Man, accomplished this also for those He died for, He took away their sins for it is written 1Jn 3:5
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Jn 1:29
29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Dan 9:24
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
They shall be no more Jer says Jer 50:20
In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve. Which is the Election of Grace !
Now this Taking away of Sin is also called propitiation. The sins, iniquities, transgressions of all for whom Christ died for have been taken out the way, having been nailed to His Cross, He in their behalf has satisfied all of God's law and Justice, for all their sins, past, present, and future, so that their sins are gone , that is propitiation 1 Jn 2:2
2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 Jn 4:10
10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
by this, those God Loved, He took away their sins, that is the punishment they should have suffered for them !
So here is the question ! Did Christ by His Death actually put away sin [propitiate] of all those He died for, or did He only make it possible for them to be put away ? Those who follow False Teaching and a False Gospel teach that Christ's Death only possibly, contingently put away all the sins of all those Christ died for, for they teach many that Christ died for, shall still die in their sins because they did not perform a condition, and so the sins of theirs that had been taken away and forgiven by the blood of Christ were given back to them, so that God can satisfy again His Law and Justice, but this time on them, God forgetting about He punished them once already in Christ. Now of course we know this is false teaching because it makes God Unjust to Christ, who He already Punished and it makes Him Mutable and subject to change, which is a false concept of the True God, for He tells His Chosen Remnant Mal 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Its a done deal, regardless of the antichrist ministers, all those whom Christ died for, He put away their sins forever.
The Lord Jesus Christ, the God Man, accomplished this also for those He died for, He took away their sins for it is written 1Jn 3:5
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Jn 1:29
29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Dan 9:24
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
They shall be no more Jer says Jer 50:20
In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve. Which is the Election of Grace !
Now this Taking away of Sin is also called propitiation. The sins, iniquities, transgressions of all for whom Christ died for have been taken out the way, having been nailed to His Cross, He in their behalf has satisfied all of God's law and Justice, for all their sins, past, present, and future, so that their sins are gone , that is propitiation 1 Jn 2:2
2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 Jn 4:10
10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
by this, those God Loved, He took away their sins, that is the punishment they should have suffered for them !
So here is the question ! Did Christ by His Death actually put away sin [propitiate] of all those He died for, or did He only make it possible for them to be put away ? Those who follow False Teaching and a False Gospel teach that Christ's Death only possibly, contingently put away all the sins of all those Christ died for, for they teach many that Christ died for, shall still die in their sins because they did not perform a condition, and so the sins of theirs that had been taken away and forgiven by the blood of Christ were given back to them, so that God can satisfy again His Law and Justice, but this time on them, God forgetting about He punished them once already in Christ. Now of course we know this is false teaching because it makes God Unjust to Christ, who He already Punished and it makes Him Mutable and subject to change, which is a false concept of the True God, for He tells His Chosen Remnant Mal 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Its a done deal, regardless of the antichrist ministers, all those whom Christ died for, He put away their sins forever.
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beloved57
Well-known member
By it, He Justified Many !
Isa 53:11
11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
The ESV Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.
Now did Christ by His Death alone, Justify Many ? As you can see that some translations render it " accounted righteous"
This means that by His Death, many shall be accounted Righteous, or Justified. Paul preached the very same thing in Rom 5:19b
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
The word for righteous in Rom 5:19 is a greek word meaning Just, which is short for Justification or Justified When scripture says that a man is Just as Joseph Matt 1:19, it means he was Justified before God by the obedience of Christ, even though in time He had yet to die. When scripture states that that Cornelius was a Just Man Acts 10:22, it means He was Justified before God, also by the Obedience of the One Christ. Paul preached that believers had been Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood or His Obedience unto Death, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
However, the unfaithful preachers teaches that Justification before and with God was made only a possibility for all men without exception and that man , not Christ's Blood alone, is what causes Justification before God to become a factual reality, mans freewill they say accomplished that ! Now many of the opposer's of the Truth like to hi jack Rom 5:1 as proof that man must contribute his faith to Christ's Work, in order to be Justified before God, for Christ's Blood alone did not quite do it to hear them say it; However they are culpable of wresting scripture to their own destruction, but what Rom 5:1 means by being Justified by or out of Faith, is that God Given Faith, the Fruit of Regeneration or New Birth, reveals to one their Justified status before God, that Justification that was declared by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Dead Rom 4:25, this their Justification and Righteousness was established out of the Faithfulness or Obedience of Christ Rom 5:19b
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
unfaithful preachers deny this Truth of the Justification before God of all for whom Christ died !
Isa 53:11
11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
The ESV Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.
Now did Christ by His Death alone, Justify Many ? As you can see that some translations render it " accounted righteous"
This means that by His Death, many shall be accounted Righteous, or Justified. Paul preached the very same thing in Rom 5:19b
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
The word for righteous in Rom 5:19 is a greek word meaning Just, which is short for Justification or Justified When scripture says that a man is Just as Joseph Matt 1:19, it means he was Justified before God by the obedience of Christ, even though in time He had yet to die. When scripture states that that Cornelius was a Just Man Acts 10:22, it means He was Justified before God, also by the Obedience of the One Christ. Paul preached that believers had been Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood or His Obedience unto Death, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
However, the unfaithful preachers teaches that Justification before and with God was made only a possibility for all men without exception and that man , not Christ's Blood alone, is what causes Justification before God to become a factual reality, mans freewill they say accomplished that ! Now many of the opposer's of the Truth like to hi jack Rom 5:1 as proof that man must contribute his faith to Christ's Work, in order to be Justified before God, for Christ's Blood alone did not quite do it to hear them say it; However they are culpable of wresting scripture to their own destruction, but what Rom 5:1 means by being Justified by or out of Faith, is that God Given Faith, the Fruit of Regeneration or New Birth, reveals to one their Justified status before God, that Justification that was declared by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Dead Rom 4:25, this their Justification and Righteousness was established out of the Faithfulness or Obedience of Christ Rom 5:19b
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
unfaithful preachers deny this Truth of the Justification before God of all for whom Christ died !
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beloved57
Well-known member
Dan 9:24
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
For all those Christ died for, by that His Death, He has finished their Transgressions, and has made an end to their sins, as to all the legal guilt it can bring against them in the Judgment, and He hath brought in to them and imputed to them Everlasting Righteousness, and they shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and as the stars for ever and ever.
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
For all those Christ died for, by that His Death, He has finished their Transgressions, and has made an end to their sins, as to all the legal guilt it can bring against them in the Judgment, and He hath brought in to them and imputed to them Everlasting Righteousness, and they shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and as the stars for ever and ever.
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beloved57
Well-known member
It Guarantee's Repentance and Remission of sins !
Jn 12:32
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
Matt 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
The Death of the True Lord Jesus Christ guarantees, for all whom He died and rose again, both Repentance and Remission of their sins. His Resurrection not only gave evidence of their Justification before God Rom 4:25
25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
But it also ensures their repentance and remission or forgiveness of sin Acts 5:31
31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
He is not your Saviour if He has not given you Repentance ! He is the Resurrected, Exalted, Prince and Saviour, To give [ apply or communicate] Repentance and forgiveness of sins to all for whom He died, which is restricted to a elect people that is called Israel. Every sinner that Truly Repents only gives evidence of Christ's Exaltation and He being their Saviour. Their repentance gives occasion for Joy in Heaven Lk 15:7,10
7I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
10Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.
This is Christ's Joy in seeing the successful accomplishment and results of His suffering and Death for all He substituted for Heb 12:2
2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
In other words, every time a sinner repents, its a credit to Christ's Cross Work on their Behalf , and He gets Joy from it , full satisfaction, Isa 53:11
11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
The English word Joy means:
the emotion of great delight or happiness caused by something exceptionally good or satisfying
His Joy is that satisfaction He See's in what all His Hard Work accomplished for them He suffered and died for, it brought them back to God , which was the Design of His Death anyway:
1 Pet 3:18
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
He was Successful !
Jn 12:32
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
Matt 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
The Death of the True Lord Jesus Christ guarantees, for all whom He died and rose again, both Repentance and Remission of their sins. His Resurrection not only gave evidence of their Justification before God Rom 4:25
25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
But it also ensures their repentance and remission or forgiveness of sin Acts 5:31
31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
He is not your Saviour if He has not given you Repentance ! He is the Resurrected, Exalted, Prince and Saviour, To give [ apply or communicate] Repentance and forgiveness of sins to all for whom He died, which is restricted to a elect people that is called Israel. Every sinner that Truly Repents only gives evidence of Christ's Exaltation and He being their Saviour. Their repentance gives occasion for Joy in Heaven Lk 15:7,10
7I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
10Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.
This is Christ's Joy in seeing the successful accomplishment and results of His suffering and Death for all He substituted for Heb 12:2
2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
In other words, every time a sinner repents, its a credit to Christ's Cross Work on their Behalf , and He gets Joy from it , full satisfaction, Isa 53:11
11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
The English word Joy means:
the emotion of great delight or happiness caused by something exceptionally good or satisfying
His Joy is that satisfaction He See's in what all His Hard Work accomplished for them He suffered and died for, it brought them back to God , which was the Design of His Death anyway:
1 Pet 3:18
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
He was Successful !
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beloved57
Well-known member
Christ promised success out of His Death !
The Antichrist is a failure, However the True Christ made a Promise per Jn 12:24-33
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
25He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
26If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
27Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.
28Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.
29The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.
30Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
31Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
33This he said, signifying what death he should die.
In verse 24 Christ was identifying Himself as that corn of wheat, that was about to die. We now this because of vs 33
Now He says, if that corn of wheat shall die, again speaking of His Death that He is to die, He says it brings forth much fruit !
What is Fruit in this context ? Is it apples and oranges ? No its not, the word fruit here is the greek word karpos and means:
fruit
a) the fruit of the trees, vines, of the fields
b) the fruit of one's loins, i.e. his progeny, his posterity
Jesus meaning is His Progeny, or Offspring [Spiritually of course], His Posterity, shall be brought forth if He dies.
The word bring forth [pherō] means to produce, Jesus is saying that out of His death He shall produce Life, a posterity.
The word fruit also means:
that which originates or comes from something, an effect, result
Christ's Death will produce an effect, results, it will bring forth an Offspring, Life, and this Offspring will serve Him. Remember the psalmist speaks of a Offspring that shall serve Him Ps 22:30
30A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
Jesus talks about those that serve Him in Jn 12:26
26If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
Jesus is alluding to the Effects of His Death as the corn of wheat, it will produce a Offspring, a progeny that SHALL SERVE HIM Per Ps 22:30
And it is this Offspring that Jesus means in Jn 12:32. The all here that shall be drawn to Him because of His Being Lifted up or as vs 24 states it, fall into the ground and die, they all shall come to Him to Serve Him..Their coming is denoting their conversion to Him, this is the Success that He promised out of His Death.
His Death actually gives Life[Spiritual] to the World Jn 6:33
33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
This of course is the World of His Seed !
The Antichrist is a failure, However the True Christ made a Promise per Jn 12:24-33
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
25He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
26If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
27Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.
28Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.
29The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.
30Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
31Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
33This he said, signifying what death he should die.
In verse 24 Christ was identifying Himself as that corn of wheat, that was about to die. We now this because of vs 33
Now He says, if that corn of wheat shall die, again speaking of His Death that He is to die, He says it brings forth much fruit !
What is Fruit in this context ? Is it apples and oranges ? No its not, the word fruit here is the greek word karpos and means:
fruit
a) the fruit of the trees, vines, of the fields
b) the fruit of one's loins, i.e. his progeny, his posterity
Jesus meaning is His Progeny, or Offspring [Spiritually of course], His Posterity, shall be brought forth if He dies.
The word bring forth [pherō] means to produce, Jesus is saying that out of His death He shall produce Life, a posterity.
The word fruit also means:
that which originates or comes from something, an effect, result
Christ's Death will produce an effect, results, it will bring forth an Offspring, Life, and this Offspring will serve Him. Remember the psalmist speaks of a Offspring that shall serve Him Ps 22:30
30A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
Jesus talks about those that serve Him in Jn 12:26
26If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
Jesus is alluding to the Effects of His Death as the corn of wheat, it will produce a Offspring, a progeny that SHALL SERVE HIM Per Ps 22:30
And it is this Offspring that Jesus means in Jn 12:32. The all here that shall be drawn to Him because of His Being Lifted up or as vs 24 states it, fall into the ground and die, they all shall come to Him to Serve Him..Their coming is denoting their conversion to Him, this is the Success that He promised out of His Death.
His Death actually gives Life[Spiritual] to the World Jn 6:33
33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
This of course is the World of His Seed !
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Poly
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beloved57
Well-known member
It accomplished propitiation !
One of the sure ways to detect teachers of error, is to ask them what they believe the Death of Christ accomplished . They will for the most part say that His Death provided a possibility for everyone in the world to be saved, they do not say it made Salvation sure or that it[His Death] in and of itself saved anyone. They will go to 1 Jn 2:2 to prove their point ! By it they say Jesus Christ died for everyone in the world, and propitiated God for everyone in the world without exception. Once a Person goes there, I know without question that they do not understand what propitiation is to God !
In 1 Jn 2:2 its the word Hilasmos and means:
an appeasing, propitiating
the means of appeasing, a propitiation
The english word appease means:
to bring to a state of peace, quiet, ease, calm, or contentment; pacify; soothe: to appease an angry king.
Basically propitiation means to appease God's Wrath, to make satisfaction, to be propitious or merciful which denotes acceptance and favor.
It [propitiation] is the first cousin to reconciliation !
The Lord Jesus Christ upon the Cross appeased or satisfied God's Justice that His Law demanded for everyone He died in the stead of. God's Holy law against their transgressions demanded Death, and Christ was the representative and was subrogated in their place. The Lord Jesus Christ met the Just demands of the law that was against them, and it was He instead of them that God's Justice and Righteousness put to Death. God's Justice was satisfied and His Law was Honored and Magnified, and everyone this was done for, God gives them Faith so they can know it and praise His Grace and mercy for it.
John writes that He is our Propitiation 1 Jn 2:2
2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
In the greek it is present tense, that is He is presently being our satisfaction for our sins, and not at that time just to the jewish believers John wrote to, but to believers all over the world, and for all time !
Folks, simply put, God cannot, without being unjust, punish anyone Christ died for, not for anything ! His Justice cannot do it.
So for those who use this scripture to teach that Christ died for everyone in the world without exception, that Propitiated God on their behalf, and know at the same time people shall die in their sins Jn 8:24
24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
We know all will not believe because Jn 10:26
26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Now according to Jn 8:24 they shall die in their sins !
So if they die in their sins, and yet Christ is their propitiation, then God is punishing them again for their sins Christ died for 1 Cor 15:3, which makes God unjust and Christ has been betrayed, because He suffered death already for the sins that they are again to be punished for eternally !
One of the sure ways to detect teachers of error, is to ask them what they believe the Death of Christ accomplished . They will for the most part say that His Death provided a possibility for everyone in the world to be saved, they do not say it made Salvation sure or that it[His Death] in and of itself saved anyone. They will go to 1 Jn 2:2 to prove their point ! By it they say Jesus Christ died for everyone in the world, and propitiated God for everyone in the world without exception. Once a Person goes there, I know without question that they do not understand what propitiation is to God !
In 1 Jn 2:2 its the word Hilasmos and means:
an appeasing, propitiating
the means of appeasing, a propitiation
The english word appease means:
to bring to a state of peace, quiet, ease, calm, or contentment; pacify; soothe: to appease an angry king.
Basically propitiation means to appease God's Wrath, to make satisfaction, to be propitious or merciful which denotes acceptance and favor.
It [propitiation] is the first cousin to reconciliation !
The Lord Jesus Christ upon the Cross appeased or satisfied God's Justice that His Law demanded for everyone He died in the stead of. God's Holy law against their transgressions demanded Death, and Christ was the representative and was subrogated in their place. The Lord Jesus Christ met the Just demands of the law that was against them, and it was He instead of them that God's Justice and Righteousness put to Death. God's Justice was satisfied and His Law was Honored and Magnified, and everyone this was done for, God gives them Faith so they can know it and praise His Grace and mercy for it.
John writes that He is our Propitiation 1 Jn 2:2
2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
In the greek it is present tense, that is He is presently being our satisfaction for our sins, and not at that time just to the jewish believers John wrote to, but to believers all over the world, and for all time !
Folks, simply put, God cannot, without being unjust, punish anyone Christ died for, not for anything ! His Justice cannot do it.
So for those who use this scripture to teach that Christ died for everyone in the world without exception, that Propitiated God on their behalf, and know at the same time people shall die in their sins Jn 8:24
24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
We know all will not believe because Jn 10:26
26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Now according to Jn 8:24 they shall die in their sins !
So if they die in their sins, and yet Christ is their propitiation, then God is punishing them again for their sins Christ died for 1 Cor 15:3, which makes God unjust and Christ has been betrayed, because He suffered death already for the sins that they are again to be punished for eternally !
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Poly
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And add a milkshake while you're at it.