Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[Nanja]

Amen Sister. You put the butter on the toast!

TY Brother, mission accomplished !

 

[Nanja]

Its a blessing that God has opened up your understanding to receive His Truth !

A very great blessing indeed Brother, and one that you also can personally attest to !

 

[Nanja]

Contrary to Justification by Grace !

It would be totally contrary to Justifciation by Grace Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Neither would it be freely, if it Justification, if its conditioned upon faith, for then it would make that a condition which is also required by the Law, for it is written Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Who can deny that Jesus here specifically Identifies Faith as one of the weightier matters of the Law ? And that its something done !

So for those of you that teach Justification before God by mans faith, you are teaching Justification by doing one of the weightier matters of the Law and there is no escaping that conclusion, and so must be in contradiction of Rom 3:20

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin , as well as contradicting Justification by Grace ! [/B]


Exactly Brother, that conclusion stands !

 

[beloved57]

Contrary to Justification by Grace !

It would be totally contrary to Justifciation by Grace Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Neither would it be freely, if it Justification, if its conditioned upon faith, for then it would make that a condition which is also required by the Law, for it is written Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Who can deny that Jesus here specifically Identifies Faith as one of the weightier matters of the Law ? And that its something done !

So for those of you that teach Justification before God by mans faith, you are teaching Justification by doing one of the weightier matters of the Law and there is no escaping that conclusion, and so must be in contradiction of Rom 3:20

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin , as well as contradicting Justification by Grace ! [/B]


Exactly Brother, that conclusion stands !

Thank God for you Sister !

 

[Nanja]

Thank God for you Sister !

Thanking Him for you Brother !

 

[Nanja]

Justified by His Blood !

All for whom Christ died, whom He shed His Blood for the Many, even the Blood of the Covenant/Testament Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. The word remission also means forgiveness, the forgiveness of sins , which is also Justification. The word forgiveness is the greek word aphesis and means:


I.release from bondage or imprisonment


II.forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty

Those He shed His blood for have been released once and for all from the penalty of sin, so much so, its as if they never committed any one sin ! Thats Justification from sin in the eyes of God, based solely on the Blood of Christ shed, which alone satisfied His Law and Justice and Righteousness !

The word Justification, one of its meanings is:

I.the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him, which again has to do with forgiveness of sins !

Now forgiveness is also related to redemption, redemption through His Blood Eph 1:7

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

This word redemption, the greek word apolytrōsis means:

I.a releasing effected by payment of ransom

A.redemption, deliverance


B.liberation procured by the payment of a ransom



Which redemption is stated to have Justified those Christ died for Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

In principle Rom 3:24 and Eph 1:7 and Matt 26:28 are all teaching the same thing, Justification, Forgiveness, Redemption by the Blood of Christ, and not by faith in the blood of Christ, but solely by and through the blood of Christ Rom 5:9, which to deny is simply unbelief and pride !

Amen Brother, it's the Total Depravity of the natural man in his unbelief and loathful pride, that would steal the Glory of God in His Work of Redemtption by the Blood of Christ alone Rom. 5:9, and replace it with the glory of his own faith.

 

[beloved57]

Amen Brother, it's the Total Depravity of the natural man in his unbelief and loathful pride, that would steal the Glory of God in His Work of Redemtption by the Blood of Christ alone Rom. 5:9, and replace it with the glory of his own faith.

You said it Sister!

 

[God's Truth]

Anyone could get justified by doing the purification works of the old law.

Since Jesus, anyone could get justified through his blood.

 

[Nanja]

You said it Sister!

Praising God !

 

[Right Divider]

Anyone could get justified by doing the purification works of the old law.

Nope!

Gal 2:16 KJV Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.



​

 

[God's Truth]

Nope!

Gal 2:16 KJV Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


​

I can hardly believe you don't know that people used to be justified by the purification works.
What do you think the purified works of the old law did? The purification works purified/sanctified/justified.
No longer by works. Consider more carefully.

Roimans 11:6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

 

[Nanja]

According to Rom 5:9 !

According to Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Were believers Justified by Christ's Blood or by their believing /faith ? It cannot be both, for being Justified by His Blood is not our act of faith, and our believing is not the Blood of Christ !

Absolutely Brother ! Rom. 5:9 Teaches Justification by the Blood of Christ exclusively when He bore their sins, as Isaias Prophesied:

Is. 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

And Paul also Teaches in Rom. 5:18-19 that Many were Made Righteous [Justified] by the Obedience of One... Christ] And unto the same ones were Given Justification of Life, and that was even before are born in Time and Given Faith in New Birth !

So their own faith / act of believing clearly had nothing to do with them being declared Justified, but is 100% the Work of Christ, their Covenant Head and Surety from Everlasting Heb. 7:22; Heb. 13:20.

 

[Nanja]

Justified from our sins before we believe !

Those of us who came to Faith in Christ, we were Justified from our sins before Gid before we came to believe, because before we believe God saith Isa 44:21-22

21 Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me.

22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

Lets notice the basis for Gods Call to His People for their return to Him or repentance, it was based upon , foundationed upon what He has already done, which was He hath blotted out their Transgressions, He had Redeemed them, which comes only by and through the Cross of Christ Col 2:13-14

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

You see that phrase "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way"

It means their sins and transgressions against Gods Law, and its the same as in Isa 44:22, He taketh them away by nailing them to Christ's Cross, Note: The OT Saints looked forward to the Blood of Christ that taketh away their sins] their sins as well as NT Saints were imputed to Christ, and so returning to God by Faith and Repentance is premised on what has been done [the forgiveness of sins and redemption by Christ] even before we believed, even before we existed ; You see Christ did not die for our sins when we believed, but way before we believed, and in the Eternal Counsels of God, before the world began Rev 13:8; 1 Pet 1:20 !

Amen Brother !

 

[beloved57]

Rom 5:16 clearly indicates Justification by Grace before Faith notice:

And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

And not as what resulted through one man having sinned is the given-gift. For the judgment is from one trespass, resulting-in a verdict-of-condemnation; but the grace-gift is from many trespasses, resulting in a verdict-of-righteous. DLNT

16 And not as it was by one sin, so also is the gift. For judgment indeed was by one unto condemnation; but grace is of many offences, unto justification.

The backdrop of this Justification is after many sins, not faith or believing.

The word Justification here in Rom 5:16 is dikaiōma and means:

a judicial decision, sentence

1. of God
   1. either the favourable judgment by which he acquits man and declares them acceptable to Him

This Judicial decision of Justification is through the act of Jesus Christ alone !

 

[Nanja]

Rom 5:16 clearly indicates Justification by Grace before Faith notice:

And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

And not as what resulted through one man having sinned is the given-gift. For the judgment is from one trespass, resulting-in a verdict-of-condemnation; but the grace-gift is from many trespasses, resulting in a verdict-of-righteous. DLNT

16 And not as it was by one sin, so also is the gift. For judgment indeed was by one unto condemnation; but grace is of many offences, unto justification.

The backdrop of this Justification is after many sins, not faith or believing.

The word Justification here in Rom 5:16 is dikaiōma and means:

a judicial decision, sentence

1. of God
   1. either the favourable judgment by which he acquits man and declares them acceptable to Him

This Judicial decision of Justification is through the act of Jesus Christ alone !

Amen Brother, this Favorable Judicial Decision of Justification that acquits a person of all sins and declares him not guilty in the Sight of God, was reckoned upon God's Elect by Him as a free gift, depending upon His Gift of Grace given them Rom. 5:16; not based on one's own works of faith or believing, but them having been Justified from Eternity, solely upon the Blood / Death of Jesus Christ alone on their behalf; abjuring them to be Righteous, even while they are being in a state of sinfulness.

 

[beloved57]

Amen Brother, this Favorable Judicial Decision of Justification that acquits a person of all sins and declares him not guilty in the Sight of God, was reckoned upon God's Elect by Him as a free gift, depending upon His Gift of Grace given them Rom. 5:16; not based on one's own works of faith or believing, but them having been Justified from Eternity, solely upon the Blood / Death of Jesus Christ alone on their behalf; abjuring them to be Righteous, even while they are being in a state of sinfulness.

Exactly ! Its amazing how i read Rom 5:16 many many times and that truth leaped out so vividly !

 

[Nanja]

Exactly ! Its amazing how i read Rom 5:16 many many times and that truth leaped out so vividly !

That's cool, Praising God !

 

[beloved57]

Those Christ died for are Justified from sin before Faith because Faith is given as a result and an evidence that Christ put away their sins, hence Justifying them. We see this by Pauls words written to the Corinthians here 1 Cor 15:17

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

So the point is, since Christ was raised up, that shows you arent in your sins, Christ having put them away before Gods law and Justice, therefore Faith is given to give realization of that before your mind and heart Heb 11:1.

See Jesus was raised again because of our Justification if He was delivered to Justice because of our sins Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

Since Christ was raised, our God given Faith isn't in vain, that we are are not in our sins ! Not being in our sins is connected and resultive to the fact that Christ was raised after having put our sins away , and not connected or resultive with our faith !

 

[JudgeRightly]

Those Christ died for are Justified from sin before Faith

False.

Scripture says:

But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!”But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “ Lord, who has believed our report?”So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. - Romans 10:8-17 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans10:8-17&version=NKJV

Who are you to argue with scripture?!

The order is faith/believing, THEN justification!

Justification does not come to those who do not believe.

because Faith is given as a result

False.

Faith comes before, not after.

and an evidence that Christ put away their sins, hence Justifying them.

"Hence" is used to describe something that is a result (ie, "after") something else.

Christ puts away the sins of those who have faith, THEN they are justified. They aren't justified before they have faith.

We see this by Pauls words written to the Corinthians here 1 Cor 15:17

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

The verse has nothing to do with what you're saying.

In other words, STOP RIPPING VERSES OUT OF CONTEXT!

So the point is, since Christ was raised up,

Christ being raised up is a form of calling/drawing.

That was the first move, made by God.

Now man must respond to that calling by either rejecting it, or believing in Him.

that shows you arent in your sins,

Only those who believe...

Which is counter to pretty much everything you said in your post, since it requires (necessarily) one to believe first before being justified. Otherwise you might come to the conclusion (which it seems you already have) that some who don't believe are justified, when they actually aren't.

Christ having put [one's sins] away before Gods law and Justice, therefore Faith is given to give realization of that before your mind and heart

Only after one believes.

Heb 11:1.

Faith is evidence that one has placed one's trust in Christ. It is necessarily "after" that belief.

See Jesus was raised again because of our Justification if He was delivered to Justice because of our sins

You may want to reword that, because it's jibberish. Or at least add some punctuation...

Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

When you come to the text with a priori beliefs about what it says, it's easy to find verses that can support anything, up to and including heresy.

When you read the text with words meaning things they do not, it's easy to have confirmation bias that one's reading of the text supports his views.

Which is what you're doing here. Don't do that.

Since Christ was raised, our God given Faith isn't in vain, that we are are not in our sins!

AMEN! Those who have faith, who have believed, are not in their sins because Christ has saved them from their sins!

However, those who do not believe/have faith are still in their sins, no?

Not being in our sins is connected and resultive to the fact that Christ was raised after having put our sins away,

Agreed! But that doesn't mean that those who do not believe (not even those who will eventually believe, but haven't yet) have had their sins put away.

and not connected or resultive with our faith!

Our faith isn't what results in our sins being put away, to be sure, but believing, ie, recognizing that one is unable to save himself and placing his trust in the One who can, still comes before Christ puts a man's sins away. Remember: confession is made unto salvation, not the other way around.

 

[beloved57]

False.

Scripture says:

But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!”But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “ Lord, who has believed our report?”So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. - Romans 10:8-17 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans10:8-17&version=NKJV

Who are you to argue with scripture?!

The order is faith/believing, THEN justification!

Justification does not come to those who do not believe.



False.

Faith comes before, not after.



"Hence" is used to describe something that is a result (ie, "after") something else.

Christ puts away the sins of those who have faith, THEN they are justified. They aren't justified before they have faith.



The verse has nothing to do with what you're saying.

In other words, STOP RIPPING VERSES OUT OF CONTEXT!



Christ being raised up is a form of calling/drawing.

That was the first move, made by God.

Now man must respond to that calling by either rejecting it, or believing in Him.



Only those who believe...

Which is counter to pretty much everything you said in your post, since it requires (necessarily) one to believe first before being justified. Otherwise you might come to the conclusion (which it seems you already have) that some who don't believe are justified, when they actually aren't.



Only after one believes.



Faith is evidence that one has placed one's trust in Christ. It is necessarily "after" that belief.



You may want to reword that, because it's jibberish. Or at least add some punctuation...



When you come to the text with a priori beliefs about what it says, it's easy to find verses that can support anything, up to and including heresy.

When you read the text with words meaning things they do not, it's easy to have confirmation bias that one's reading of the text supports his views.

Which is what you're doing here. Don't do that.



AMEN! Those who have faith, who have believed, are not in their sins because Christ has saved them from their sins!

However, those who do not believe/have faith are still in their sins, no?



Agreed! But that doesn't mean that those who do not believe (not even those who will eventually believe, but haven't yet) have had their sins put away.



Our faith isn't what results in our sins being put away, to be sure, but believing, ie, recognizing that one is unable to save himself and placing his trust in the One who can, still comes before Christ puts a man's sins away. Remember: confession is made unto salvation, not the other way around.

No its truth. We are Justified by the blood of Christ Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Faith is how one knows they have been Justified by Blood. I have a whole thread explaining this !