It's not new

[The Barbarian]

In addition to not being willing to name names (cowardice), Barbarian has brought into an argument from statistics that is almost certainly useless.

Did he bother to read his link?

They approximate the undocumented population using a residual technique (basically counting deaths and estimating from that the actual number of people in an area compared with the documented number).

This obviously has very little to do with people illegally entering the US via its southern border.

You've surprised me, Stripe. You're actually trying to form a cogent argument. And your conclusion is correct. The study is not about people coming into the United States. It's about the behavior of illegal aliens in the United States. Your conclusion is correct. It's your premise that's faulty.

But it's an encouraging thing to see you doing this.

 

[Stripe]

My experiment initially seemed to have confirmed the hypothesis, but then one of them actually attempted to compose a reasonable argument. Let's see if he can keep it up)

Nobody knows what you're talking about, Barbarian. You called a large section of society evil, but are too much of a coward to name names.

Go home. :wave:

 

[Stripe]

The study is not about people coming into the United States.

We know.

It's anyone's guess why you're using it for that.

 

[The Barbarian]

Here's an enlightening one illustration of nativist tendencies.

Irish, Italians, Jews, and Germans came in large numbers at the turn of the 20th century. Nativists depicted these people migrating to America as violent rats.

Now some of the descendants of those immigrants are falling into the same sort of fear and hatred. But not as many as some people hope.

Record-High 75% of Americans Say Immigration Is Good Thing
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- A record-high 75% of Americans, including majorities of all party groups, think immigration is a good thing for the U.S. -- up slightly from 71% last year. Just 19% of the public considers immigration a bad thing.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/235793/record-high-americans-say-immigration-good-thing.aspx

 

[The Barbarian]

Names, Barbarian. Who are the racists? (We knew you wanted to paint large swaths of society as evil.)

I just showed you that they aren't as large a segment of society as you hoped. As you see above, the vast majority of Americans think immigration is a good thing. They just want the laws to be reformed and effectively enforced.

And "evil" was your term. As I showed you, most people opposing immigration are fearful and foolish, not evil.

 

[The Barbarian]

Starting From the Bottom: Why Mexicans are the Most Successful Immigrants in America
Meanwhile, Mexican-Americans’ high school graduation rate was more than double that of their parents, and their college graduation rate more than doubled that of their fathers and tripled that of their mothers. According to Lee, the results are clear: When success is measured as progress from generation to generation, Mexican-Americans come out on top.Meanwhile, Mexican-Americans’ high school graduation rate was more than double that of their parents, and their college graduation rate more than doubled that of their fathers and tripled that of their mothers. According to Lee, the results are clear: When success is measured as progress from generation to generation, Mexican-Americans come out on top.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...icans_are_the_most_successful_immigrants.html

 

[Stripe]

I just showed you that they aren't as large a segment of society as you hoped. As you see above, the vast majority of Americans think immigration is a good thing. They just want the laws to be reformed and effectively enforced.

And "evil" was your term. As I showed you, most people opposing immigration are fearful and foolish, not evil.

Names, Barbarian. We know you'll say anything to avoid addressing your pivotal failure.

 

[Stripe]

Starting From the Bottom: Why Mexicans are the Most Successful Immigrants in America
Meanwhile, Mexican-Americans’ high school graduation rate was more than double that of their parents, and their college graduation rate more than doubled that of their fathers and tripled that of their mothers. According to Lee, the results are clear: When success is measured as progress from generation to generation, Mexican-Americans come out on top.Meanwhile, Mexican-Americans’ high school graduation rate was more than double that of their parents, and their college graduation rate more than doubled that of their fathers and tripled that of their mothers. According to Lee, the results are clear: When success is measured as progress from generation to generation, Mexican-Americans come out on top.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...icans_are_the_most_successful_immigrants.html

Yay. People legally in the US are doing well.

We notice that last time someone paid a little bit of attention to your sources they got shown up. This one is irrelevant without even having to look.

 

[Stripe]

Record-High 75% of Americans Say Immigration Is Good Thing

Immigration is a good thing.

Can you name someone who says it's not?

It's not difficult to figure out why you don't respond with specifics.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Alex Nowrasteh, with the libertarian Cato Institute, analyzed the Texas data to make a comparison of immigrants in the country illegally and native-born residents. In a recent post he noted that in 2015 Texas police made 815,689 arrests of native-born Americans, 37,776 arrests of immigrants in the country illegally and 20,323 arrests of legal immigrants. Given the relative populations for each group, he wrote, “The arrest rate for illegal immigrants was 40 percent below that of native-born Americans.”

In addition, he wrote, the homicide arrest rate for native-born Americans was “about 46 percent higher than the illegal immigrant homicide arrest rate.”

Other research from the Cato Institute attempted to provide national estimates. A study published on June 4 used data from the Census Bureau’s American Community Survey for 2016 and applied statistical modeling to estimate the number of incarcerated immigrants in the country illegally. It filtered the data using characteristics correlated with being an immigrant in the country illegally, such as whether someone is a non-citizen but has not served in the military or received Social Security income. The research concluded: “Illegal immigrants are 47 percent less likely to be incarcerated than natives.” (And legal immigrants are even less likely to be in jail or prison.)

Cato, June 4: If native-born Americans were incarcerated at the same rate as illegal immigrants, about 930,000 fewer natives would be incarcerated. Conversely, if natives were incarcerated at the same rate as legal immigrants, about 1.5 million fewer natives would be in adult correctional facilities.
https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/is-illegal-immigration-linked-to-more-or-less-crime/

100% of Illegal immigrants are breaking the law, but they are not being arrested for it?

 

[JudgeRightly]

100% of Illegal immigrants are breaking the law, but they are not being arrested for it?

:think:

https://www.openbible.info/topics/welcoming_strangers

:think:

Exodus 20

:think:

2 Thessalonians 3:10

 

[genuineoriginal]

(I'm going to do a little experiment. I'm going to just ignore a certain person and see if he gets crazier and crazier, trying to get my attention)

(My experiment initially seemed to have confirmed the hypothesis, but then one of them actually attempted to compose a reasonable argument. Let's see if he can keep it up)

 

[genuineoriginal]

Who Does Not Like Illegal Immigrants? And Why?
I examine several reasons for hostilities toward illegal immigrants.

Aside from stereotypes, why else do some people feel animosity toward illegal immigrants? Espenshade and Calhoun have tested five hypotheses:

1. The labor market competition hypothesis suggests that people with the lowest socioeconomic standing feel most threatened by illegal aliens and thus have the most unfavorable opinion of them.

2. The cultural affinity hypothesis predicts that the people whose cultural background is most different from the newcomers are most likely to dislike them.

3. The education hypothesis proposes that strong negative attitudes toward migrants are associated with lower levels of education.

4. The cost-benefit hypothesis links negative opinions of undocumented immigrants with beliefs about how these migrants might negatively affect one’s material well-being (e.g., through raised taxes).

5. The symbolic politics hypothesis proposes that the antagonism toward newcomers is the result of the perception that immigrants and their way of life are potential threats to symbols of national identity (e.g., the English language).

...

Group-narcissism is narcissism that is associated with entitlement at the group level. Group-narcissism may encourage hostile attitudes toward others when the group’s superiority is threatened by outside forces.

Lyons and colleagues found that, as expected, when group narcissism was high, national in-group identification was associated with hostile attitudes toward illegal Latino immigrants.

The results can have serious implications, given that by 2050, the Latino population will likely represent a third of the US population while Whites will be in the minority; this change will be considered a deviation from the “traditional American customs and values”; these deviations are likely to be not only threatening identity-wise but also “disrespectful to the superior status” of Americans.

The fear that US is becoming a “brown” and “bilingual nation” is likely to increase hostility toward immigrants.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...01806/who-does-not-illegal-immigrants-and-why

It is amazing how the most obvious reason to object to illegal immigrants has been completely missed by the idiot who wrote that article.
The first thing they chose to do when they came here was to become a law-breaker.
They have proven that they do not respect the laws of the United States.

 

[genuineoriginal]

:think:

https://www.openbible.info/topics/welcoming_strangers

:think:

Exodus 20

:think:

2 Thessalonians 3:10

Romans 13:1 ESV Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.​

 

[ok doser]

It is amazing how the most obvious reason to object to illegal immigrants has been completely missed by the idiot who wrote that article.
The first thing they chose to do when they came here was to become a law-breaker.
They have proven that they do not respect the laws of the United States.

yeah, that jumped out at me as well


barbie likes quoting idiots :idunno:

 

[JudgeRightly]

Romans 13:1 ESV Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.​

And?

That goes hand-in-hand with what I said.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Romans 13:1 ESV Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.​

Since it seems you need an explanation:

:think:

https://www.openbible.info/topics/welcoming_strangers

We should welcome strangers into our land.

:think:

Exodus 20

We should replace the criminal justice system.

:think:

2 Thessalonians 3:10

We should end the welfare state.

---

And one I didn't mention above, since it's implied through other scripture, rather than stated explicitly...

We need to repair our border, as it's part of infrastructure, which is covered by Deuteronomy, 19:3.

 

[ok doser]

We should end the welfare state.

there's been a lot of talk in canada (probably the us as well) of replacing the existing welfare system with a guaranteed minimum income


unsurprisingly, its been getting a lot of pushback from those who benefit from the existing welfare system

 

[JudgeRightly]

there's been a lot of talk in canada (probably the us as well) of replacing the existing welfare system with a guaranteed minimum income


unsurprisingly, its been getting a lot of pushback from those who benefit from the existing welfare system

 

[The Barbarian]

100% of Illegal immigrants are breaking the law,

Only about 50% are actually committing a crime by being here. And that's becoming an increasing percentage. Thought you knew.

but they are not being arrested for it?

They can be detain and deported. During the Obama years, immigration enforcement was focused on finding and deporting or imprisoning the dangerous criminals among them, which meant that those who were not committing crimes here were less likely to be deported.

Now, Trump has reversed that policy, and yes, such otherwise law-abiding aliens are being more frequently deported, which means that dangerous criminals are less likely to be deported than previously.

I think that's a concern. Apparently, Trump does too, since he's shown us cases where dangerous criminals here illegally harmed people. I wish he cared enough to do something meaningful about it.