All Things Second Amendment

Town Heretic

Out of Order
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Today's racist, right-wing Trump-supporting El Paso gunman (multiple fatalities, don't have an exact count yet) was radicalized by reading The Great Replacement.
Just read a feed from NBC saying there were 19 dead and at least 40 injured. The identified shooter apparently left published a manifesto that, according to NewsOne.com "[FONT=&quot]included anti-immigrant rhetoric with the author going into depth on why he is “against race mixing,” supports the idea to “send them back”.[/FONT]
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
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And as if typical, the trump haters have a single agenda in the face of mass murder: Political campaigning.

How about calling for justice and an end to fish barrels of government-mandated defenceless zones. :up:
 

Idolater

"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
The Gilroy suicidal mass murderer, turns out, was, suicidal, after all.

https://us.cnn.com/2019/08/02/us/gilroy-garlic-festival-shooter/index.html

Details from today's Texas massacre are still coming in. One suspect apprehended, and I don't know yet how he didn't die at the scene. Some reports have more than one shooter spotted, which suggests possible Texan civilians persuaded him to halt /freeze, and wait for le to arrest him, but time will tell.

Pics show another AK today, like the Gilroy mass murderer. Two consecutive national headline massacres involving AK patterns, not the AR.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
The Gilroy suicidal mass murderer, turns out, was, suicidal, after all.
Okay. The latest one gave up his gun today. He killed 20 people and wounded 26, though NBC reported more woundings, that's the latest figure I heard law enforcement announce. Apparently he surrendered to police.

Another nut with a weapon that helped him kill a number of people in a small window of time.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
In a "gun-free zone," with no fear that he might face justice.
I've read that about the Dillards and inside portions of the mall, though my understanding is that most of the killings happened in and outside of the Walmart, and there's no word on whether or not it is similarly restrictive.

Meanwhile, the killer legally purchased a weapon perfect for accomplishing what he meant to do in very little time and then did it.

It's time to follow the lead of any of the European models that do a remarkably better job of making their citizens safer from gun violence and this sort of nightmarish slaughter.
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
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It's time to follow the lead of any of the European models that do a remarkably better job of making their citizens safer from gun violence and this sort of nightmarish slaughter.

Nope. It's time to turn away from legalism — which fosters mass murder — and install liberty.
 

Idolater

"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
. . . There would likely be a great spike in murders and other gun-related deaths until society could adjust.

And in a democracy, they wouldn't get a chance.

So the best way forward is a gradual introduction of what liberty, justice and rights are.

But in a democracy, that would never get a chance.
In my timeout I've thought about this point you made.

In the US we had a time when we had to fix an immoral law, the abolition of slavery. This had similar portents of chaos, and many people argued similarly to you, but you know what happened instead?

The federal government forced the South to recognize, affirm, protect, and defend the inalienable rights and the civil rights of poc.

After the Civil War, until 1876-1877, federally imposed Reconstruction worked. From 1877 racist southern lawmakers regained legislative power and made laws that wound up being the same laws that MLK in the 1960s crusaded against.

So counterintuitively in order to ward off the chaos when liberating people from unjust laws all of a sudden, you focus on the lawmakers, and watch them like hawks, and then you work against the illegal laws that they try to make anyway, and you use federal power to do it.

What Republican party led federal Reconstruction did in the South immediately following the abolition of slavery would be hailed as a miracle if it were to happen today. poc were instantly treated as equals, because and only because they were treated as equals under the law, which was being actively presided over by federal power.

The tension was between the feds, who were Republicans, and the southern racists, who were mostly descended from English families, and who were Democrats. These Democrats are those responsible for the racist laws against which MLK campaigned against in the 1960s.

It's not a perfect parallel. To be parallel the part of the Democrat southern racists would be played by proponents of 'gun control,' and the only people today who can be said to play the role of the 1865-1876 Republicans are branded "extremists" by some of the racists.

I mean the gun haters. I mean the proponents of gun control. I mean the opponents of the Second Amendment.

I mean the gun control proponents. These are the people who are today playing the role of the racist southern Democrats of the period after the Civil War. They do not want poc to have rights. As soon as they liberated from federal power, they made racist laws right away. It was like a legal nuclear assault. poc probably should have evacuated the South, but they weren't in any position to do it.


Chaos was undeniably predictable if slavery was abolished instantly, instead of gradually. And yet it was immoral to permit slavery to persist for a moment longer than necessary, and in this case it was immoral to consider avoiding the inevitable chaos from instantly abolishing slavery, by Not instantly abolishing slavery. This was not an option.

And so instead Republicans used super majority power in the federal government to force the South to abolish slavery, and to maintain that justice, and not let it decay gradually through diminuting laws robbing poc of their rights, little by little, one by one.

1. It worked. For as long as the federal government forced the South to comply with the requirement that they were always recognizing, affirming, protecting, and defending the rights of all poc, it worked.

2. As soon as the Republicans lost power in Washington. As soon as that happened. Right away. Racist laws as far as the eye could see were made in the South. The South became hell on earth for poc, in a snap.


It's not a perfect parallel, since there weren't any people getting murdered back then OH WAIT THERE WERE. Actually there was a lot of murder, but they were only poc, so Republicans didn't care BUT WAIT NO REPUBLICANS PRESIDED OVER RECONSTRUCTION. The murders happened when the Republican federal government forced the racist southerners to recognize, affirm, protect, and defend the inalienable and civil rights of poc. OH WAIT NO. The murders happened AFTER Reconstruction was undone, THAT'S when the murders happened. When rights were being violated, that's when the murders happened. Not when lawmakers were forced to defend rights, but when they Weren't forced to defend rights, did murder prevail.

In the South.

Today gun rights of poc are targeted. In the effort of course the gun rights of white people, of lgbt people, of women, of oldsters and of youngsters, are also targeted, since it'd be too obviously racist to make laws against only the gun rights of poc.

This is also why the proponents of gun control never mention the chaotic murder rate among communities of poc, because to them they're only poc, and nobody cares if poc get murdered, to them. If they cared they would ignore massacres only involving white people, the total number of victims of which is dwarfed by the poc who are murdered regularly.

Did you know that there were 48 people today killed or bullet-wounded in El Paso, and the same number of people were killed or bullet-wounded in Chicago over last weekend? And nobody cared or said anything about that, because it was mainly poc, but today in Texas there were white people there.

It was revealed that President Ronald Reagan was a racist last month, a telephone recording between him and then President Richard Nixon, where both men were racists, made it abundantly clear. It shouldn't have come from out of the blue: Reagan while governor of California signed into law the "Mulford Act," a purely racist gun control law, approved of by white racist Californians because poc were 'acting uppity,' flagrantly (yet lawfully and peacefully) exercising their right to bear arms publicly. Reagan squelched the poc 'acting up' by violating their inalienable right to bear arms, and all of white racist California approved of it, all the way up to today---the Mulford Act is still law in California.

A racist law, targeting poc, and California hasn't done a single thing to repeal it since then, not even now that it's perfectly clear that Reagan was a racist.


This is typical of racists today. They are secretive. And they today, just like in the 1800s, do not care about anybody's rights, and, just like in the 1800s the only solution to them, is to force down their throats that they will defend all the rights of poc, whether they like it or not, and it will work, and the world will be better for poc, if we force the racists, especially the lawmakers, to obey.

That's what the Republican party did in the 1800s. They were glorious. Now we've got Ronald Reagan is a Republican. What a sad joke. He would have been a Democrat in the 1800s, and in fact one of the things he said was that 'the Democrat party left me.'

President Donald Trump is an 1800s Republican, and he is not racist. There's no evidence that he is racist. And what I mean by racist is someone who approves of laws that violate the inalienable rights or the civil rights of poc. President Trump is absolutely not a racist.

So yes, it appears that suddenly permitting human liberty to wash ashore like a tsunami, will bring chaos with it, but we know from a parallel experience that there is a solution to that problem, and we know that it is to force rights-violating lawmakers to defend rights in the laws they make. They cannot be permitted to make laws that violate inalienable rights or civil rights of anybody.​

That will avert the chaos, as it did do during federal Reconstruction of the South. If it wasn't stopped, there isn't any reason to believe that federal Reconstruction would have turned the South into non-racists in due time, and we Americans wouldn't have to still be dealing with racists, now lurking here and there hidden from sight, but they can't hide forever, and when they do come out into view, they do so by making laws that violate human rights, of poc. Gun rights are human rights.
 
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Idolater

"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Today's racist, right-wing Trump-supporting El Paso gunman (multiple fatalities, don't have an exact count yet) was radicalized by reading The Great Replacement.
So what is your point, in pointing this out, itt? How does it connect to the OP "All Things Second Amendment?" I'm not strict on keeping to the OP in my own threads, but these posts seem like incomplete thoughts and I'm trying to draw out a thought to contribute to the thread.

And the reason why I'm not just ignoring you is because I don't care who's doing the killing myself. Whatever they think, whoever they are, do not relate to the right to bear arms, and what we should do about the right to bear arms. If anything, the more massacres that occur, the stronger the case is made for less gun control and not more.

So since I don't care who's doing it, whether it's Islamic extremists, or Kamikazes, or poc on pcp, doesn't impact the discussion of the right to bear arms, and whether gun control is infringing, and whether to amend the Second Amendment, etc. So what are you implying in making these observations, about what motivates the last two headlining mass shooters? It's also true that they both used, rather than AR pattern guns, AK pattern---does that mean they're racists too?

Just, What is your proposition?
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
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In the US we had a time when we had to fix an immoral law, the abolition of slavery. This had similar portents of chaos, and many people argued similarly to you, but you know what happened instead? The federal government forced the South to recognize, affirm, protect, and defend the inalienable rights and the civil rights of poc.

:think:

That's a well thought out rebuttal. It would definitely be well worth doing quickly, especially if the alternative was to do nothing and watch as the gun-hating legalists slowly eradicated every last freedom we have.

In my defense, however... :D

I think there would still be a spike in statistics for gun-related deaths should (say) the government in Taiwan recognize people's God-given right to self-defense and promulgate rules to that effect overnight.

It's worth considering your counter-argument: Such a change might even be something that could only ever come about suddenly.
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Just read a feed from NBC saying there were 19 dead and at least 40 injured. The identified shooter apparently left published a manifesto that, according to NewsOne.com "included anti-immigrant rhetoric with the author going into depth on why he is “against race mixing,” supports the idea to “send them back”.

And both he and the Gilroy CA terrorist mentioned writings influential to white supremacists.
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
So what is your point, in pointing this out, itt? How does it connect to the OP "All Things Second Amendment?" I'm not strict on keeping to the OP in my own threads, but these posts seem like incomplete thoughts and I'm trying to draw out a thought to contribute to the thread.

It's the continuation of a response to your post about mass murderers.

That's right. Suicidal mass murderers ruin everything. And one of the worst things about them, is that they look just like people, and live among us invisibly.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Another day, another slaughter. This time in Dayton, Ohio, where a man wearing body armor and using an assault rifle killed 9 and injured many more in the span of a few breaths. The mayor of Dayton said that the shooter was killed within a minute by police who were on scene at one bar eatery. It took next to no time for him to do that much damage anyway.

I'm a gun owner who is sick of this. There is a simple lesson that needs to be learned here and it's this: if you place more and more weapons capable of killing a great many people in a short interval of time into our stream of commerce, you will never see an end to this sort of carnage. It will not get better by osmosis. It will not be stopped by prayer without action.

Every other Western Industrial Democracy does a dramatically better job of protecting its citizens from gun violence. None of those models puts more guns into the hands of their citizens. All of them make the possession of assault rifles illegal or extraordinarily difficult and subject to serious scrutiny. In this country we can't pass registration or safety course requirements.

We managed to protect and exercise our 2nd Amendment rights for generations without these weapons. We can exercise the right without them again, just as we manage to do it without rpgs and for the same reason, they are a clear and present danger to our security with no value to equal that risk.

I don't want to see another church, mosque, schoolyard, concert, nightclub, or mall transformed into a killing field. I'm beyond being polite. I will work tirelessly against any candidate that supports the status quo and as stridently for any who works to change it for the better.

We can make our nation safer. This is not a 2nd Amendment issue. It's a human one.
 

Idolater

"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
It's the continuation of a response to your post about mass murderers.
Then we need to look south. Some of them have migrated north, but the hornets nests are still in the south, where they've been 'dug in' since federal Reconstruction ended. What always makes their presence clear is their desire to make laws violating and robbing poc of inalienable and civil rights. And people who instead believe that we should all be equal under the law, and that laws should defend everybody's inalienable and civil rights, are specifically not racist or any kind of supremacist. And that rules out President Trump.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
We have an obesity problem in the US. Yet no one is seriously suggesting the solution to it is access to "more food."
 

Idolater

"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
I am sick and tired of the experiment that's been going on in this country since 1934, when the first gun control law was made ("weapons grade" gun control), where we chip off a little here and a little there, from our inalienable right to bear arms. Not only has it not worked in any way, statistically, but it is now plainly proving to be an abject disaster. End the gun control experiment. Results are in, hypothesis has been Denied. Let's just get back to obeying the supreme law: "Shall not be infringed."
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
I am sick and tired of the experiment that's been going on in this country since 1934, when the first gun control law was made ("weapons grade" gun control), where we chip off a little here and a little there, from our inalienable right to bear arms. Not only has it not worked in any way, statistically, but it is now plainly proving to be an abject disaster. End the gun control experiment. Results are in, hypothesis has been Denied. Let's just get back to obeying the supreme law: "Shall not be infringed."

But if the government can argue that it has a compelling interest to infringe upon our right to bear arms, the sheeple will nod their heads and bleat in agreement
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Another day, another slaughter. This time in Dayton, Ohio, where a man wearing body armor and using an assault rifle killed 9 and injured many more in the span of a few breaths. The mayor of Dayton said that the shooter was killed within a minute by police who were on scene at one bar eatery. It took next to no time for him to do that much damage anyway.

I'm a gun owner who is sick of this. There is a simple lesson that needs to be learned here and it's this: if you place more and more weapons capable of killing a great many people in a short interval of time into our stream of commerce, you will never see an end to this sort of carnage. It will not get better by osmosis. It will not be stopped by prayer without action.

Every other Western Industrial Democracy does a dramatically better job of protecting its citizens from gun violence. None of those models puts more guns into the hands of their citizens. All of them make the possession of assault rifles illegal or extraordinarily difficult and subject to serious scrutiny. In this country we can't pass registration or safety course requirements.

We managed to protect and exercise our 2nd Amendment rights for generations without these weapons. We can exercise the right without them again, just as we manage to do it without rpgs and for the same reason, they are a clear and present danger to our security with no value to equal that risk.

I don't want to see another church, mosque, schoolyard, concert, nightclub, or mall transformed into a killing field. I'm beyond being polite. I will work tirelessly against any candidate that supports the status quo and as stridently for any who works to change it for the better.

We can make our nation safer. This is not a 2nd Amendment issue. It's a human one.

Well said, TH. Thank you for this.
 

Idolater

"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
But if the government can argue that it has a compelling interest to infringe upon our right to bear arms, the sheeple will nod their heads and bleat in agreement
The Civil War was a good war. Republican led federal southern Reconstruction was also good. Ending gun control is ending the end of Reconstruction, which will instead continue where it left off, and now all poc are stronger than they were before, they are ready for the wave of hatred headed their way, and we can all help them, because we know exactly who's wrong here and why; they support laws that continue to violate the inviolable, just as those southern racist lawmakers did in 1877, to spell the temporary defeat of Reconstruction. We won the first, and they've taken the second, but there's a third battle between the racists and the true patriots afoot. It could be happening right now irl. And poc Always need their inviolable right to bear arms Defended. That should be 'Duh' to people, but they miss how dangerous it is to be a poc in America; more than anybody else, to defend against all the real racists who make laws in this country, poc need their right to bear arms to be defended, and that's all Reconstruction was. We have to twist their arms behind their backs and force them to defend the rights of all poc, at Any and All cost. There is no compromise that is moral.
 
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